LeMond I

[Jeremiah]

I don't remember if it's Velonews, but there is a great article on news stands now about Calfee presenting his frame to LeMond and LeMond raving about how great it descended with a skeptical Julien eyeballing Calfee before LeMond's positive review.

Apparently Calfee and LeMond are still friends and Calfee is building a tandem for LeMond.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I don't remember him racing with an SRM much but I do remember him showing up to a training ride in the late 80's with one. The thing was huge, like a small TV set

Not the same but when you said the SRM was huge, like a small TV set,,,,it reminded me the first time I saw someone show up with a GPS for running. I asked them what it was like having a PC strapped to their wrist. I made fun of it especially when it would flake out due to clouds or trees.

Now I run with one on / use it while open water swims in my swim cap etc.

Lemond is a bad a$$ regardless of what ChrisE, Polish, others try to say.

 

[Polish]

Lemond is a bad a$$ regardless of what ChrisE, Polish, others try to say.

Everything me and ChrisE have tried to say is consistent with Lemond being a bad a$$. We are in agreement. Lemond is one of the baddest a$$'s out there.

 

[ChrisE]

Everything me and ChrisE have tried to say is consistent with Lemond being a bad a$$. We are in agreement. Lemond is one of the baddest a$$'s out there.

I bet you are glad GL and LA had a falling out....now you don't have to fight for air inside LA's backside with GL.

When did you get more breathing room? Wasn't it July 2001?

 

[AngusW]

1993 Tour

This is more like the powercontrol I remember from 89, huge box

Must be from the 1994 Tour, as Lemond didn't ride the tour in 1993.

 

[AngusW]

I will agree that Big Mig was uncatchable. Most people would agree with that. Greg himself would agree duh. So would so many other riders who came up against Big Mig. Many tried to catch him - all failed.

Back to Back Giro/Tour Doubles.
Almost Back to Back to Back Giro/Tour Doubles.
Damn Berzin grrrrrr.

And Pantani, who also finished ahead of Indurain.

 

[blutto]

Everything me and ChrisE have tried to say is consistent with Lemond being a bad a$$. We are in agreement. Lemond is one of the baddest a$$'s out there.

...yup...couldn't agree more....

Cheers

blutto

 

[thehog]

The power meter phenomenon was expensive and adoption was slow. The first models where crank based and required some wiring to the unit. They were also poor and recording data to the unit themselves. The memory on the units was small so and you couldn’t track against heart-rate nor distance etc. The new models using ANT+ you can map the entire ride and see the power output on from each leg and map into to the actual map and distance of your ride. You have attitude, speed, heart-rate and power. A lot better than the simple readout you got back in the day. You couldn't always look at the unit at great speed in the bunch to know your power reading. The hub based models were a little better but you still had to get a custom drive train made up. Back in the day it was 3000-4000USD to get it set up. Not many could use on both training and racing bikes. Actually no one could afford to!

Should mention that SRM is the company not another name for a power meter.

Some good info here: http://www.trainingsmartonline.com/power_cycling_training.php

Finally, power-based training has long been possible with a calibrated bicycle ergometer, but the first power-measuring device for use “on the road” did not appear until 1988, when the SRM system was introduced.  It was followed by the Power Pacer (Balboa Instruments) and Look Max One hubs in the early ’90s, neither of which was a commercial success.  SRM received a significant boost when it was embraced by several national cycling federations, as well as numerous professional  and elite riders, including Greg LeMond, but it took the Power Tap (1998, Tune Corp., purchased by Graber Products in late 2000) and Polar S-710 (2001) to bring accurate and reliable power measurement within reach of most any rider.  (Ciclosport models are not mentioned here, since they make only a crude estimate of power, based on weight, speed, and gradient.)
benefits of power-based training

1. It eliminates guesswork from gauging exercise intensity.  Even those with exceptional “feel” are unlikely to judge their wattage any better than to within perhaps 10%, whereas a power meter is accurate to ±2% or less.

2. It allows fitness to be precisely and accurately quantified and tracked, both daily and over time.  Workouts become carefully controlled, and along with a periodized program, training is less haphazard, making peak performances easier to predict.  Carefully planned training may also help prevent overtraining and injury.

3. Power meters have other uses, such as pacing during interval training, time trials, and even breakaways in mass start races; aerodynamic testing; and possibly as an aid to dieting and weight control.  Previously, wind tunnel testing was necessary to assess air drag, but under carefully controlled conditions, it may be possible to do this in the field.

 

[ultimobici]

My memory could well be wrong on this one.
Did LeMond use SRMs in races before 1993?

Not that I can recall and none of the Winning mags I have have him with one either. Up until 1995 there was little incentive to have a power meter on a bike when racing. They were too bulky and the UCI's 6.8kg limit was not yet rearing its ugly little head. I cannot recall any rider using one in racing up until quite late in the 90's. Boardman seems to have relied on them in training but reverted to a regular wrist mounted HRM for the actual event.

 

[Polish]

I bet you are glad GL and LA had a falling out....now you don't have to fight for air inside LA's backside with GL.

When did you get more breathing room? Wasn't it July 2001?

I split my time between Lance's backside and Floyd's.
Plenty of room. Spacious.

But yes, it would have been nice to have Greg's backside too.
Roomy. Cheezburger nom nom.

Oh, don't even get me started on Betsy.

 

[petethedrummer]

It is not utter bxllxcks. It is true. Please, ask Greg today 2012 if his form declined 1991 onward. He will answer "yes".

Wrong again Polish.

http://competitorradio.competitor.com/2006/08/20greg-lemond/

At the 20 min mark from the man himself......

"I showed up in 91 significantly better trained than in 1990."

"Prior to the '89 and '90 tour the week before I was motor pacing for about 2 hours of probably an hour and half of continuous output of around 80 kilometers an hour which is 50 miles an hour. I was just flying. Those are the 2 years I won. 91 I was doing 85 kilometers an hour. I was as well prepared as I ever was for the tour de France. Similar to where I was in 1986. And by the first time trial I think I'm flying and I lose by 8 seconds to Miguel indurain. And 3 days later we have a stage, and I've been racing for 10 years at this point, we have a stage thats 148 miles long. We stopped 3 times for a train. [laughs]. We averaged 31 miles an hour! And it was like...It was just black and white...like,it was...something was going going on. Now, I just thought I was getting worse."

He describes the self doubt and goes on to say.....

"I went through that whole thing until 93 when we found out from another rider on the ONCE team what was going on. And it was EPO, Growth Hormone, Testosterone. It was Spanish and Italian riders that were the leaders. And at that time several doctors were trainng up to 40, 50 riders and they just dominated every event they went into. And the French riders basically fell of the face of the earth."

 

[Polish]

Wrong again Polish.

http://competitorradio.competitor.com/2006/08/20greg-lemond/

At the 20 min mark from the man himself......

"I showed up in 91 significantly better trained than in 1990."

."

"Wrong again" you really know how to hurt a guy.

And yes, in 2006 Greg said he was very strong in 1991. And there are other quotes from Greg where said he "was very srtong in 1991". One of the Favorite Quotes. Golden Quotes. We see it a lot.

To be fair, Greg answered the same way back in 1992 when questioned about his form in 1991. Being questioned about his form was becoming a "SSDD" kind of situation for Greg starting back then. He would snap back sometimes...


Great article from Rich Carlson in the "Special 100 Collector's Issue!" of Winning Magazine April 92. I must have all the issues from back then. Fun to go back and read them. Rich asks Greg about the stage to Val Louron when he cracked and lost time to Big Mig:

RC: " a lot of people were shocked when you had problems at last year's Tour. There was talk you went out fast early because you knew you weren't in top condition and would have trouble in the mountains."

GL: Who said that! That's a load of bull. All I can say is this: The day before Val Louron I had a fever, and the day after I had a high white blood cell count. That indicates some kind of infection. I couldn't eat the night before Val Louron, and the next day I just didn't feel right. That's why I attacked on the Tourmalet - I wasn't sure how I felt. And, obviously, it turned out I was not feeling too good."

RC: "So there was no problem with your conditioning coming into the race?"

GL: "I felt I was fitter coming into that race than in any other year."

Golden Quote from Greg. "Fitter than ever."
Stop with the "condition/form" questions FCOL. SSDD.

Later in the same April article Greg talks about his reasons for skipping the 92 Giro and doing the Tour DuPont instead. The Giro had become too hard to use as a training race Greg said. Also said it was no longer possible to do well in both the Giro and Tou in the same year...

Big Mig back to back to "almost" back Giro/Tour Doubles 92/93/"94".
Respect Big Mig. Respect is due. Not trash talk.

 

[Polish]

Wrong again Polish.

http://competitorradio.competitor.com/2006/08/20greg-lemond/

...from the man himself......


"I went through that whole thing until 93 when we found out from another rider on the ONCE team what was going on. And it was EPO, Growth Hormone, Testosterone. It was Spanish and Italian riders that were the leaders. And at that time several doctors were trainng up to 40, 50 riders and they just dominated every event they went into. And the French riders basically fell of the face of the earth."

There you go with the "wrong again" thing again ouch.

So Greg knew about EPO in 1993. Spanish and Italian riders grrrr. Who from ONCE told Greg? French rider JaJa? Swiss rider Zulle? Greg knew about EPO a full 5 years before French Team Festina gets busted?

Hopefully Greg sent a letter or something notifying the authorities back in 1993. Greg must have been very disappointed. I will search the 93/94 mags to read about Greg breaking the Omerta. I will let you know what I find.

 

[earlfoss]

There has been a well circulated rumor for a long time in the Twin Cities area that he was experimenting with EPO in the 90's and had some complications with using it, resulting in some bad races.

 

[ultimobici]

There has been a well circulated rumor for a long time in the Twin Cities area that he was experimenting with EPO in the 90's and had some complications with using it, resulting in some bad races.

Got anything to back that up? Highly unlikely you have. Had your allegations of this rumour been true, it would have come out years ago. But 20 odd years on, not a dicky bird. I wonder why?

 

[ChrisE]

...yup...couldn't agree more....

Cheers

blutto

Actually, my friend blutto, I have always said GL was a great racer, and I have never said otherwise. Even so I have never called him a "bada$$" as Polish alleges....I reserve the use of that term for people that have won more than 3 GTs.

What do you think about these recent links posted by Polish? In 1991 GL claims he was as fit as ever, but Indurain beat him in a TT so he wondered WTF was up (how dare this pack fodder beat Captain America!). Then he goes on to say he lost because of some infection the day before Val Louron. This is the first I have heard of this, and creates much confusion in my simple mind.

So, which is it? He lost in 91 because of EPO or he lost because he got sick?

This is a trying time for us non-believers that want to believe.

 

[ChrisE]

There you go with the "wrong again" thing again ouch.

So Greg knew about EPO in 1993. Spanish and Italian riders grrrr. Who from ONCE told Greg? French rider JaJa? Swiss rider Zulle? Greg knew about EPO a full 5 years before French Team Festina gets busted?

Hopefully Greg sent a letter or something notifying the authorities back in 1993. Greg must have been very disappointed. I will search the 93/94 mags to read about Greg breaking the Omerta. I will let you know what I find.

Whoa, you are flying very close to the sun Polish.

Yes, it is unfortunate that the great sport of cycling has been drug thru the mud, and it could have all been avoided if GL would have broken omerta earlier. I bet he forgot to send that letter to the UCI back in 93 because he was disoriented from that blood disease. His dementia started clearing up in July 2001.

I am sure he thought EPO use cleared up in 98 with Festina, even though no test for EPO existed until 3 years later. He must have thought those journalists in the 99 press room that rolled their eyes at Sestriere were really stupid. Also, it is unfortunate that he didn't know LA's physical numbers until July 2001 either (though they were public knowledge), else he could have been rolling his eyes and breaking omerta in July 99 intead of 2001.

Thinking about all of these could-have-beens is really depressing. Here is a picture to lift our spirits or American cycling in happier times. Enjoy.

 

[ChrisE]

No question mark needed. He used to be much better though.

Actually scotty, I finally agree with you. I used to be much better at trolling, but I have not been trolling other forums lately so I have slipped a bit. You should have seen the one I did on the jacuzzi forum; I asked if I could throw a toaster and a blender in a kiddie pool instead of spending $ on a jacuzzi.

I have never really trolled on this forum as ChrisE. Isn't is amazing?! I actually believe the stuff I write on this forum! Katy bar the door! Look on the bright side...if somebody as stupid as me can accel in this world you have nothing to worry about.

Moving on, my earlier post got deleted by the "glitch" so I will try again (I am saving my posts now on a word doc so I can beat this "glitch").

I am proud that Joe Papp has me on ignore. The irony of a felon/cycling drug mule has me on ignore because I am not buying him stomping up and down about GL being clean, is just too much.

Me thinks GL probably told him some nice words during the FL affair, and now Papp is kinda like a kitten you feed on the porch one time...it is loyal to the end. Plus I am sure they are brothers in arms, along with FL, vs LA. LA is the cure all for past animosities lol. We should drop him into Palestine so he can clear that crap up.

You know the FL hearing where Papp testified about the usefulness of steroids and various PED's in testimony against FL? I recall his testimony noted how easy it is to dope in cycling as well. Imagine that....all the way from Anquetils bread/water quote to the clinic drug mule testifying against FL to the modern AC etc drug regimen, Papp picks GL out of the history of cycling to go out of his way to promote his cleanliness.

Yes, coincidence that is.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually scotty, I finally agree with you. I used to be much better at trolling, but I have not been trolling other forums lately so I have slipped a bit. You should have seen the one I did on the jacuzzi forum; I asked if I could throw a toaster and a blender in a kiddie pool instead of spending $ on a jacuzzi.

I have never really trolled on this forum as ChrisE. Isn't is amazing?! I actually believe the stuff I write on this forum! Katy bar the door! Look on the bright side...if somebody as stupid as me can accel in this world you have nothing to worry about.

Moving on, my earlier post got deleted by the "glitch" so I will try again (I am saving my posts now on a word doc so I can beat this "glitch").

I am proud that Joe Papp has me on ignore. The irony of a felon/cycling drug mule has me on ignore because I am not buying him stomping up and down about GL being clean, is just too much.

Me thinks GL probably told him some nice words during the FL affair, and now Papp is kinda like a kitten you feed on the porch one time...it is loyal to the end. Plus I am sure they are brothers in arms, along with FL, vs LA. LA is the cure all for past animosities lol. We should drop him into Palestine so he can clear that crap up.

You know the FL hearing where Papp testified about the usefulness of steroids and various PED's in testimony against FL? I recall his testimony noted how easy it is to dope in cycling as well. Imagine that....all the way from Anquetils bread/water quote to the clinic drug mule testifying against FL to the modern AC etc drug regimen, Papp picks GL out of the history of cycling to go out of his way to promote his cleanliness.

Yes, coincidence that is.

I have never really trolled on this forum as ChrisE

You have accused me of being a liar on this board more than once. My turn to return the favor.

Speculate on Papp's motives/beliefs all you want. He's prolly in a much better position to know actually.

And when you have the goods on Lemond you just go ahead and let the denizens know.

 

[blutto]

Actually, my friend blutto, I have always said GL was a great racer, and I have never said otherwise. Even so I have never called him a "bada$$" as Polish alleges....I reserve the use of that term for people that have won more than 3 GTs.

What do you think about these recent links posted by Polish? In 1991 GL claims he was as fit as ever, but Indurain beat him in a TT so he wondered WTF was up (how dare this pack fodder beat Captain America!). Then he goes on to say he lost because of some infection the day before Val Louron. This is the first I have heard of this, and creates much confusion in my simple mind.

So, which is it? He lost in 91 because of EPO or he lost because he got sick?

This is a trying time for us non-believers that want to believe.

....really don't understand this fascination with a TT loss to Indurain in 91...LeMond was never a dominant rider in the race of truth...not against Hinault when he was in his prime, and certainly not against Indurain in 89( where Miquel beat him in the one more or less level playing field TT...that race was a mountain TT that had a lessened aero advantage that LeMond enjoyed in the other TT's of that year..) or 90 ( where LeMond was beat three times by Indurain...and the aero advantage was neutralized )....

...that loss in 91 was just business as usual...

Cheers

blutto

 

[ChrisE]

You have accused me of being a liar on this board more than once. My turn to return the favor.

Speculate on Papp's motives/beliefs all you want. He's prolly in a much better position to know actually.

And when you have the goods on Lemond you just go ahead and let the denizens know.

I also called you a racist and a parrot, but whose keeping score.

Yes, I question Papp's motives and it is a fact he plead guilty to distribution and testified against FL. It is a fact about what that testimony centered around, which belies his proclamations of cleanliness of his buddy. Yeah, he either is spouting what he actually knows or he is full of ****. I vote for the latter, but he keeps good company.

I have no "goods", except I question how a clean person could compete against doped competition. That is all. You etal take it hook/line/sinker that he did.

To me, that is the more interesting tangent of this whole conversation to me....about how you and your ilk seem to take this all personal when in fact I am just applying the same logic that is used throughout the clinic in my skepticism. I could give a rat's *** whether he doped or not.

 

[ChrisE]

....really don't understand this fascination with a TT loss to Indurain in 91...LeMond was never a dominant rider in the race of truth...not against Hinault when he was in his prime, and certainly not against Indurain in 89( where Miquel beat him in the one more or less level playing field TT...that race was a mountain TT that had a lessened aero advantage that LeMond enjoyed in the other TT's of that year..) or 90 ( where LeMond was beat three times by Indurain...and the aero advantage was neutralized )....

Cheers

blutto

Stop pointing out facts! Bad blutto!

His interviews, quotes, and actions are all over the map even to this day, and defy explanation.

I hope CN gives him another forum in this years tour like in 2009, when he raved about AC's performance.

 

[Jeremiah]

Stop pointing out facts! Bad blutto!

His interviews, quotes, and actions are all over the map even to this day, and defy explanation.

I hope CN gives him another forum in this years tour like in 2009, when he raved about AC's performance.

LeMond's first stage win was over Hinault in the '85 Lac de Vassivière TT. He was 24 years old.

LeMond at his peak was always one of the best two or three time trialists and even though there was no, or very limited blood manipulation at the time, there was extensive use of cortisone, steroids and amphetamines.

This is keeping in mind that LeMond never got to reach what would have been his peak because of the shooting. Hinault was 30 years old and LeMond was trading victories with him in TT's.

LeMond was also racing a very full schedule and was competitive in all of the classics throughout his career.

 

[ChrisE]

LeMond's first stage win was over Hinault in the '85 Lac de Vassivière TT. He was 24 years old.

LeMond at his peak was always one of the best two or three time trialists and even though there was no, or very limited blood manipulation at the time, there was extensive use of cortisone, steroids and amphetamines.

This is keeping in mind that LeMond never got to reach what would have been his peak because of the shooting. Hinault was 30 years old and LeMond was trading victories with him in TT's.

LeMond was also racing a very full schedule and was competitive in all of the classics throughout his career.

And your point is? Blutto is talking about GL's performance vs Indurain, inre to the GL quote from the previous link.

The rest of your post is just conjecture. You will fit in good here with your off-topic replies and making stuff up.

 

[Jeremiah]

Because

There you go with the "wrong again" thing again ouch.

So Greg knew about EPO in 1993. Spanish and Italian riders grrrr. Who from ONCE told Greg? French rider JaJa? Swiss rider Zulle? Greg knew about EPO a full 5 years before French Team Festina gets busted?

Hopefully Greg sent a letter or something notifying the authorities back in 1993. Greg must have been very disappointed. I will search the 93/94 mags to read about Greg breaking the Omerta. I will let you know what I find.

the authorities already knew what GL knew. If they didn't know then, they knew in early '94 because LA's future doctor announced it to the world.

Also remember what the most tested athlete of all time said after Fleche Wallonne in 1994.

Nothing.

By the next year he had a new doctor.

And then he started winning again before he discovered the tumors.