LeMond I

[BroDeal]

...wow, this is second time in the span of a few days that someone from your camp has accussed me of being on drugs..

The ironic thing is that they have just as much evidence as you do about LeMond using drugs.

 

[Race Radio]

...sorry about that...was just taking you at your word...and believe me, that will never happen again...

...and oh my goodness gracious...someone winding up someone on the CN Forums...who woulda thunk it...

...next you'll be going to the Indy 500 to hand out speeding tickets....

...as I said before you are a real laugh a minute funny guy....

Cheers

blutto

Good of you to admit you are trolling

 

[Dr. Maserati]

...wow, this is second time in the span of a few days that someone from your camp has accussed me of being on drugs...like do the familiars get together weekly for strategy meetings?...or daily?...

...btw...just high on life...clean air...and no I don't drink...

Cheers

blutto

I didn't accuse you of taking drugs - I did ask you if you were (a very different thing) which you invited as you made a reference to LeMonds family and asked people to join the dots.... you didn't seem too impressed when people did.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

...wow, this is second time in the span of a few days that someone from your camp has accussed me of being on drugs...like do the familiars get together weekly for strategy meetings?...or daily?...

...btw...just high on life...clean air...and no I don't drink...

Cheers

blutto

I was just wondering since you keep on rambling, rambling, ramblig the same piano strokes. I must admit, everyone keeps feeding you, yet you never come up with any evidence. Not even anything that would raise my eyebrowe. The best thing u have is the unfair advantage LeMond had over Fignon with the tri - bars! Man, they rode with tri - bars at the Trump Tour in may that year, Laurent should have done his homework so you would'nt have to cry like a baby 23 year later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

It's even Taylor's dad, you see?

Keep trolling.

And, not to forget: cheers matey!

 

[blutto]

I was just wondering since you keep on rambling, rambling, ramblig the same piano strokes. I must admit, everyone keeps feeding you, yet you never come up with any evidence. Not even anything that would raise my eyebrowe. The best thing u have is the unfair advantage LeMond had over Fignon with the tri - bars! Man, they rode with tri - bars at the Trump Tour in may that year, Laurent should have done his homework so you would'nt have to cry like a baby 23 year later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

It's even Taylor's dad, you see?

Keep trolling.

And, not to forget: cheers matey!

....about those repetitive rambling piano strokes...well I've always been drawn to simple forms in music...hmmm...does that make me a simpleton or just simplistic?...gee good question...maybe we can devote a thread to that?....anyways, where was I?...oh yeah, so I like blues folk and jazz which are kinda rambling and often with simple chord progressions and not many notes...so maybe my written art reflects my musical tastes....how perceptive of you to note that...you must be pretty smart and sensitive and stuff....do you think we could be friends because beneath this shell I am sensitive too...though I have to admit that skin...errr...shell is pretty thin...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

....about those repetitive rambling piano strokes...well I've always been drawn to simple forms in music...hmmm...does that make me a simpleton or just simplistic?...gee good question...maybe we can devote a thread to that?....anyways, where was I?...oh yeah, so I like blues folk and jazz which are kinda rambling and often with simple chord progressions and not many notes...so maybe my written art reflects my musical tastes....how perceptive of you to note that...you must be pretty smart and sensitive and stuff....do you think we could be friends because beneath this shell I am sensitive too...though I have to admit that skin...errr...shell is pretty thin...

Cheers

blutto

And cheers, off course.

 

[red_flanders]

Please cease with this line of discussion. If you have some relevant information or have something serious on the topic it's fine, but this has gone far enough. Thanks.

 

[krinaman]

Ordinarily, I'd agree with you. However LeMond hasn't done what most ex-pros have done and kept quiet on the matter. Far from it, he has been pretty outspoken on the subject. Yet not one of his contemporaries has called him out on it. It's one thing to keep solidarity with someone who keeps quiet like the rest, but to do so for someone who's spitting in the soup, even just a little, is above on beyond the believable, IMO. I certainly couldn't let it slide, as Fignon, Hinault & co have for nigh on 30 years. There would have to be at least one person saying "who the hell does he think he is spouting off about winning 'clean'?" It's human nature to bring people like that down a peg or two, but somehow LeMond gets a pass. As Big Doopie pointed out, $300K couldnt elicit anything either. I wonder why?

My problem here is that Fignon wouldn't of seen him do anything first hand as they were on different teams. Hinault?, what's he going to do? Come out and say "yeah, back in the day me and Lemond doped together"?

There isn't a whole lot of cases where riders came out naming riders they claimed to of seen doping. Plenty have said they seen lots of riders doping but they don't name names. Even Lemond, as far as I know, has never named anybody he seen doping.

Claiming he rode clean? Again, nothing really new here. Other riders made that claim without getting named by other riders too. Why because they all claim they are clean.

I don't see any particular reason that riders from his era would be so inclined to "out" him over anybody else.

You all are going to have to fill me in on the $300k thing. Because, to be honest, I haven't really followed the whole Lance doping stuff all that closely. Yep, he doped, figured that out over a decade ago. All the other drama doesn't really interest me. Any how, far as I recall (and a quick googling could confirm) is LeMond accused Armstrong of trying to bribe someone (who was never named) with $300k, Armstrong denied it, and that was pretty much it.

Based on that: I can only conclude that for $300k he could have, at the very least, found someone to lie about LeMond. Since he didn't I can only come to a couple conclusions. 1 - He tried to bribe one person, got caught, then denied it. This makes LA a (bigger?) *** but does't support the "nobody would out LeMond even for 300k he must be clean argument" 2 - The story was complete BS from LeMond which makes him a (bigger?) ***.

Again, if there is more to the story please fill me in. Although I don't want to turn this into an Armstrong discussion.

Back to LeMond, we have a guy coming back after getting shot, still had the pellets in him, and apparently mitochondrial myopathy to boot. It's not surprising he was less than stellar when he returned. Then all of a sudden he takes a couple iron shots and wins a couple tours. Nothing suspcious about that......

 

[GJB123]

My problem here is that Fignon wouldn't of seen him do anything first hand as they were on different teams. Hinault?, what's he going to do? Come out and say "yeah, back in the day me and Lemond doped together"?

You do realize Fignon and Lemond were in the same team in Lemond's first TdF, do you?

On a different note, within the small world of the pro-peloton it is quite well known who does anything and who doesn't. That there is an omerta keeping most of it under wraps is different mater, but if you take what Landis said on that subject for example, he stated that is was quite common to have some discussions or jokes about it in the peloton. So yes, Fignon would probably have been aware of it if Lemond's name was singing around the peloton with regard to PED's.

Now picture Fignon feeling he should have won the 1989 TdF, witing an autobiography, telling all about himself and about that TdF and being terminally ill ;ater on, why wouldn't he open up or at least allude to Lemond's PED-use? I think it is quite simple, there was really very little or nothing to allude to.

Regards
GJ

 

[Benotti69]

My problem here is that Fignon wouldn't of seen him do anything first hand as they were on different teams. Hinault?, what's he going to do? Come out and say "yeah, back in the day me and Lemond doped together"?

There isn't a whole lot of cases where riders came out naming riders they claimed to of seen doping. Plenty have said they seen lots of riders doping but they don't name names. Even Lemond, as far as I know, has never named anybody he seen doping.

There are plenty of tell all cases, Festina, Cofidis, Suanier Duvall, Rabobank, T-Mobile, Willy Voet, Paul Kimmage, Manzano etc etc

Fignon felt robbed of the 1989 TdF. He definitely would have hinted at something if he could have in his book where he admitted to his own doping.

Claiming he rode clean? Again, nothing really new here. Other riders made that claim without getting named by other riders too. Why because they all claim they are clean.

Lemond did not just claim he rode clean, he accused the rider who defeated cancer and came back from near death to win the TdF was the biggest fraud in the sport. That ruffled lots of feathers in the sport. There is no way he would've done that if he was open to accusations of doping. He has been very vociferous in his anti doping, again something that would put people in the sport ill at ease. Many would love him not to talk about doping in cycling. Easiest way to shut him up was to prove he doped.

I don't see any particular reason that riders from his era would be so inclined to "out" him over anybody else.

Why not? Plenty have been caught doping because their teams required them to dope and then were shown the door and left out of the sport. Perfect situation to spit in the soup of the sport that spat them out.

You all are going to have to fill me in on the $300k thing. Because, to be honest, I haven't really followed the whole Lance doping stuff all that closely. Yep, he doped, figured that out over a decade ago. All the other drama doesn't really interest me. Any how, far as I recall (and a quick googling could confirm) is LeMond accused Armstrong of trying to bribe someone (who was never named) with $300k, Armstrong denied it, and that was pretty much it.

Based on that: I can only conclude that for $300k he could have, at the very least, found someone to lie about LeMond. Since he didn't I can only come to a couple conclusions. 1 - He tried to bribe one person, got caught, then denied it. This makes LA a (bigger?) *** but does't support the "nobody would out LeMond even for 300k he must be clean argument" 2 - The story was complete BS from LeMond which makes him a (bigger?) ***.

Armstrong has shown he is the lowest of the low. He insinuated that the team masseuse, Emma O'Reilly did sexual things with the riders. The guy is scum.

Again, if there is more to the story please fill me in. Although I don't want to turn this into an Armstrong discussion.

Back to LeMond, we have a guy coming back after getting shot, still had the pellets in him, and apparently mitochondrial myopathy to boot. It's not surprising he was less than stellar when he returned. Then all of a sudden he takes a couple iron shots and wins a couple tours. Nothing suspcious about that......

He got shot in 1987. 2 years later he wins his 3rd TdF. He had proven himself as a TdF winner.

 

[Albatros]

I assume you are conveniently ignoring that there was no flat TT of similar length since 89 in the Tour?

Did you forget the post I had about Kellys TT from 1985? Let me remind you.

Nope, I am not ignoring that fact, but working on it. And there is a similar ITT in 2005 when David Zabriskie beats Lemond record.

Lemond obtained a 54.545 kph average speed in a 24.5 kms ITT that, as we all know, took place in the last stage of the 1989 Tour de France.

Zabriskie average speed in 2005 was 54.676 km/h on a 19 km long course in what it was meant to be the prologue, but was classified as ITT.

 

[Albatros]

Lots of clogging the toilet with babble but still no evidence of LeMond doping.

Maybe if they close their eyes and wish real hard?

Stay tuned.

By the way, I read from you in another thread that Lemond never worked with Francois Bellocq. How sure are you of that?

 

[Albatros]

Fignon felt robbed of the 1989 TdF. He definitely would have hinted at something if he could have in his book where he admitted to his own doping.

A cheat hinting at other cheats. Some cheats have far more decency than others.

 

[Albatros]

...ooops... my booboo...was talking about the 91 Tour...as for the 92 stuff...the official story, from the horses mouth, is early onset of mitochondrial disease ( which btw can be brought on by iron toxicity...and I kinda remember that GL used iron injections to counter a predisposition to anemia....which is real funny because other racers at the time were using iron injections to get full benefit from the EPO they were taking...its a funny world isn't it...but as has been pointed we have nothing remotely approaching hard evidence...except there were a lot of iron injections happening at that time...some to promote world peace, others not so much...)

Cheers

blutto

Make it a year earlier.

I am astounded that so many Lemond fans in here and nobody remembers that Lemond was sick, yes, sick, during the 1991 Tour. And he finished 7th.

Well, sick according to his entourage. After all he didn't know the effects of doping with EPO by then and had to justify his somehow poor performance.

He even tried to get advice from someone outside his medical team, a medical team lead by a certain doctor whose name escapes me right now.

 

[Benotti69]

A cheat hinting at other cheats. Some cheats have far more decency than others.

For sure and some repent and do the right thing for the future of the sport.

But still you have not shown anything to suggest LeMond has cheated and therefore Armstrong is the same.

Keep up the failing.

 

[7_7_7_7]

Lemond has admitted in the past that he used recreational drugs. (outside of cycling)

Which he stated he was not proud of.

Which recreational drugs did he use ?

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/archive/lemond-article-irish-times__o_t__t_3327.html

“It’s one thing harming yourself. I’ve done stuff I’m not proud of. Tried recreational drugs. It’s another thing when you’re consciously manipulating, and trying to cheat other people. That to me is a big difference. I see Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton as tragic stories. Marco Pantani as well. I know some people look on them as the problem. They’re not the problem.

 

[Race Radio]

Stay tuned.

I am not going to hold my breath for your latest invention

 

[Albatros]

I am not going to hold my breath for your latest invention

You call inventions quotes by the cleanest man on earth himself?

I can understand that you were dealt a very bad hand, but I would make a much better defence than you.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You call inventions quotes by the cleanest man on earth himself?

I can understand that you were dealt a very bad hand, but I would make a much better defence than you.

What quotes? Or do you mean the ones you picked out his 1998 interview?

We are at 1000 posts here - if you do have something constructive or new please share. Otherwise it is repetitive which is just trolling.

 

[Albatros]

What quotes? Or do you mean the ones you picked out his 1998 interview?

We are at 1000 posts here - if you do have something constructive or new please share. Otherwise it is repetitive which is just trolling.

Before making comments you should at least read the thread. Otherwise you are bound to make mistakes, especially when the word troll comes so easily out of your mouth. You are not alone here, though.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Before making comments you should at least read the thread. Otherwise you are bound to make mistakes, especially when the word troll comes so easily out of your mouth. You are not alone here, though.

I have read the thread - all of it.

But here once again is what I asked....

What quotes? Or do you mean the ones you picked out his 1998 interview?

We are at 1000 posts here - if you do have something constructive or new please share. Otherwise it is repetitive which is just trolling.

If your answer to that is to ask me to reread the thread then I will happily conclude that it you are trolling - if you don't agree with that then yet again, please post something new.

 

[red_flanders]

We're clearly at a stage in the thread, much like the USADA thread where there is little new info to be discussed. If you have new information or have valid clarifications of earlier points, please continue. If you're just here to get others' hackles up or call people trolls, please stop now, as the thread is nose-diving due to this kind of thing. The reported posts which allude to trolling are being looked at by the moderation team. However, it does get a bit...interesting...when people who hold one position call the other position trolling and people who hold the opposite...well you get the idea. That said, we are verging into toll-dom in several instances.

While some interesting tidbits have been brought up, as far as I can see there isn't a lot of new information coming to light here–not surprisingly as Lemond's career ended about 20 years ago. Let's keep it on point here. Simply lobbing accusations and then stepping back to watch is the very definition of trolling. If you do have suspicions, please feel free to discuss and engage with the respondents.

Engaged, earnest, spirited discourse is of course welcome, and the point of this site. Thank you.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

He even tried to get advice from someone outside his medical team, a medical team lead by a certain doctor whose name escapes me right now.

He asked advice to Yvan van Mol, who told him to go and see in Italy...

http://archive.mensjournal.com/greg-lemond-vs-the-world

That's also been heralded here, so nothing knew.

 

[Albatros]

I have read the thread - all of it.

But here once again is what I asked....

If your answer to that is to ask me to reread the thread then I will happily conclude that it you are trolling - if you don't agree with that then yet again, please post something new.

I am sorry, but if you had read the whole thread properly you wouldn't have asked the original question cause I quoted Lemond from other interviews as well.

 

[Albatros]

He asked advice to Yvan van Mol, who told him to go and see in Italy...

http://archive.mensjournal.com/greg-lemond-vs-the-world

That's also been heralded here, so nothing knew.

I am not talking about the doctor he went to see, but his main man. Do you know who he was? More tomorrow.

By the way, you have been in here one of the most vocal advocates that EPO cyclists prevented GL from winning more tours.

At least you remember that in 1991 he was sick and thus with very little chance of winning the Tour.

It is something that maybe Lemond fans could comment on starting by you.