LeMond II

[Gavandope]

Good quote in there



Some might want to paint Greg as a lying hypocrite but the reality he is a fan of the sport. The result is some naive comments on Froome and Quintana

In his defence having watched him on Eurosport all tour he loved watching Pantani ride. Even though I suspected he was doped to the gills he was my favourite rider to watch through that whole era. Mad as a fish and a personality despite reading subtitles he gave me the opposite feelings to LA. Not normal stats showed just how much he was running as the red cell max rider of all time for his mass and type of rider he was.

Watching Greg squirm and stumble with his words when commenting on performances which made my dope alarm go off was great, he's getting paid not to comment about such things but the look on his face didn't need words to explain what he really thought.

After all he's gone through, no matter what stupid words that slip out of his mouth as he's always done he'll always be in my book as one of the legends of pro cycling. One of the cleanest too.

 

[MarkvW]

Just doing a quick look. Lance's field generally had a super fast top 15-20 within 5 minutes of his time. Then then next big group at like 10 minutes back. Tactics or drugs?

Why kill yourself if you can't win? Save it for another day. Both racing tactics and doping tactics?

Also, it seems to me that the biopassport is just a more sophisticated version of the old hematocrit rule.

 

[D-Queued]

Hi Dave.

I only talk about doping in here too.

I didn't like Greg when he raced preferring the likes of Robert Millar, Kelly, and a load of Italians. But it was not a dislike of Greg.

I can understand Greg wanting to have the final word on Armstrong and remind everyone Armstrong tried to destroy Greg and Greg won. But hanging with other known dopers is hypocritical. He could have come up with a better solution to the eurosport thing where he did his thing and then eurosport got on with their interviewing the likes of Vino, Piti, Contador etc without him.

He could have done something similar to Cassani where Cassani rode parts of every stage talking about the important bits for RAI. That would've been perfect for LeMond on his bikes giving that former winners knowledge while selling product.

I have big respect for Gerg for calling Armstrong out on working with Ferrari, but he cant have it both ways with me. Most cycling fans will not blink, but i have.

Probably said this before, but my first thought when he won the Tour was that while the accomplishment was impressive for a North American he was likely doping. After all, it was a dirty sport. I have clearly been turned around on the likelihood of LeMond doping.

Even so, my initial reaction was minimally one of skepticism and asterisked acknowledgement. My second thought was that he wouldn't be able to do it again. Thus, I was wrong at least twice about him.

This stuff is hilarious.

Get over it.

[oops, I guess you missed Kim Andersen, a former teammate of LeMond, check him out on L'arri's site]

I think you are mocking me. Which is ok. In this case, though, it may be uncalled for.

My statement was not borne of emotion. I was just stating fact.

I recall Kim Anderson who set something of a standard for testing positive, and I considered Tammy Thomas as an extreme doping case when posting that. But, even if you throw in Mr. 60% as well as 'he would drink his own urine if you told him it would enhance his performance' Virenque and collectively they still cannot touch Armstrong. They were all amateurs by comparison.

Thus, it isn't possible to 'get over it' as there is nothing to get over. It just is what it is.

Dave.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

OK, thanks for explaining.

No real need to be rude.

My apologies.

http://t.co/MLXylbfdDL

Where the speeds also down in 2003?

 

[sniper]

...
Greg is right, climbing times are down.

fair points, RR. And I wouldn't make too mych out of Lemond's statements either. Generally though, don't we want a clean sport? then what's the value of stressing that times are down and that cycling is better than it was before? How do those two mantra-like observations do anything to encourage tougher testing?
If the topguns are still cheating, shouldn't we focus our attention on that?

 

[melkemugg]

I loved watching Pantani ride. Does that make me a doper?

 

[zigmeister]

When he says he wants to be part of the "new system" with Cookson, and then starts talking about how the performances are within human possibilities.. that just screams agenda to me.

And this:


Really now?

There is a reason he took a commentary job. Although he is one of the worst I've seen at it. He stumbles over his words and can't think and put two sentences together hardly.

He took the job obviously because it pays money. His "trainer" and other businesses can't be making much money. Nobody seems to know his, or many other cyclists financial situation that aren't high level riders, or low level continental team guys (which we know they are two extremes).

Maybe Greg has observed long enough all of the politics and how the sport is run, taken his lessons to heart, and is now just saying F'IT....Gotta get paid. All these other former dopers have been rewarded over the years for their doping. Riis, Hincapie, the entire Garmin team it goes on and on who is still in the sport getting paid $$$ for being known dopers. Playing St. Greg of Lemond and railing these guys have got him nowhere in general except with a small following.

So...time to get on the bandwagon and play ball.

 

[SeriousSam]

Exactly. In the end, all everyone does is about money and even people who start out all idealistic will eventually be swayed when they see their less idealistic peers have much better lives. Honesty and integrity aren't rewarded.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Maybe Greg has observed long enough all of the politics and how the sport is run, taken his lessons to heart, and is now just saying F'IT....Gotta get paid. All these other former dopers have been rewarded over the years for their doping. Riis, Hincapie, the entire Garmin team it goes on and on who is still in the sport getting paid $$$ for being known dopers. Playing St. Greg of Lemond and railing these guys have got him nowhere in general except with a small following.

So...time to get on the bandwagon and play ball.

No he hasnt. The guy isnt loaded like Armstrong [was] but he has plenty of money, dont worry about that.

Some people, not me, are just upset because they thought Greg was their anti-doping-hero. But the fact is while Greg is anti-doping, he was much more interested in bringing Armstrong/McQuack and his band down.

Does that make him a hypocrite? Perhaps, for some, I would like to call it a man with an objective. Objective accomplished; move along.

No problem there, you dont mess with a man with a killer instinct.

However, the question is, why did he ask questions about Contador back in 2009 and not in current day and age, because some riders are still equalling that Contador Verbier climb effort and now they fall within human limits?

To me that is a contradiction, I dont like contradictions. From no one.

 

[roundabout]

And which riders are that?

 

[Stingray34]

There is a reason he took a commentary job. Although he is one of the worst I've seen at it. He stumbles over his words and can't think and put two sentences together hardly.

He took the job obviously because it pays money. His "trainer" and other businesses can't be making much money. Nobody seems to know his, or many other cyclists financial situation that aren't high level riders, or low level continental team guys (which we know they are two extremes).

Maybe Greg has observed long enough all of the politics and how the sport is run, taken his lessons to heart, and is now just saying F'IT....Gotta get paid. All these other former dopers have been rewarded over the years for their doping. Riis, Hincapie, the entire Garmin team it goes on and on who is still in the sport getting paid $$$ for being known dopers. Playing St. Greg of Lemond and railing these guys have got him nowhere in general except with a small following.

So...time to get on the bandwagon and play ball.

Been a tough couple of years for you. You once denied there ever was a wagon, then passed it through the turnpike when a certain Texan was driving it, now you're dead against the thing altogether. Just get into triathlon already.

 

[kingjr]

fair points, RR. And I wouldn't make too mych out of Lemond's statements either. Generally though, don't we want a clean sport? then what's the value of stressing that times are down and that cycling is better than it was before?

There will never be a clean (as in dope-free) sport. Never never never ever. Best thing to hope for is to make it less of a gamechanger. So that the actual hierarchy doesn't get too ****ed up.

 

[sniper]

There will never be a clean (as in dope-free) sport. Never never never ever. Best thing to hope for is to make it less of a gamechanger. So that the actual hierarchy doesn't get too ****ed up.

agree with this.
yet my argument remains that if you want to continue cleaning up cycling, it seems totally counterproductive to repeat the mantras that speeds are down and that cycling is cleaner than before, etc.

Even if they were true (which I doubt, but that's a different discussion), I fail to see how these serve to encourage antidoping efforts.
At best they serve the purpose of pulling the whool over the fans' eyes.

 

[kingjr]

Even if they were true (which I doubt, but that's a different discussion), I fail to see how these serve to encourage antidoping efforts.
At best they serve the purpose of pulling the whool over the fans' eyes.

Generally, I wouldn't have a problem if Cookson tried to make things look better than they are. It's promotion and I'm fine with that.
As long as he doesn't follow Verbruggen and gives riders a pass who seem to fit that purpose. I don't think he's doing that.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Exactly. In the end, all everyone does is about money and even people who start out all idealistic will eventually be swayed when they see their less idealistic peers have much better lives. Honesty and integrity aren't rewarded.

If everything is about rewarding and individual some scarce resource like money, humans would have some other kind of social order. And there would be far fewer of us on the planet.

Most sports, at their core are supposed to have some integrity, or the perception of, in the game played. Otherwise, it's entertainment wrestling. Lemond's podiums still stand as some kind of example of integrity in sport. A soigneur hasn't appeared with Lemond doping claims, no drug mules have surfaced to tell their story, and more.

And Dave, Lemond, as a junior, was beating adult elites in the U.S. The grand tour engine was always there.

Kingjr, how would you know who the UCI is "never testing positive?" I'm not sure how Kreuziger's case and Froome's TUE in 2014 would lead you to believe Cookson is a fair dealer.

 

[kingjr]

Kingjr, how would you know who the UCI is "never testing positive?" I'm not sure how Kreuziger's case and Froome's TUE in 2014 would lead you to believe Cookson is a fair dealer.

I don't "know" anything. That includes the question whether TUE request fast-tracking is an exclusive service for Froome or his team.

 

[sniper]

Generally, I wouldn't have a problem if Cookson tried to make things look better than they are. It's promotion and I'm fine with that.
As long as he doesn't follow Verbruggen and gives riders a pass who seem to fit that purpose. I don't think he's doing that.

agree.
As for Cookson, JV, Lemond or Walsh, I don't expect them to say anything different. They have an agenda to pursue.
I guess what I'm saying is that those who repeat those two mantras seem to do so because they have some agenda, and seem less interested in genuineley encouraging the fight against doping.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't "know" anything. That includes the question whether TUE request fast-tracking is an exclusive service for Froome or his team.

IMO, the fast-tracked TUE is not exclusive to Froome. The federation had 90-something urinalysis positives in 2013 explained away by TUE's and "research." That's not enough for most, so given the last two important articles including Cookson and revolutinary changes to anti-doping policy, there's just no way he's a fair dealer.

 

[Microchip]

Since this thread is all about Lemond, I'm putting this link in.

First Look: Lemond Washoe

Steel though? It must be heavy! But it's most likely a great bike!

 

[86TDFWinner]

I very much doubt this happened. People here claimed Nibali was clean? When? How?

It did happen. I remember mentioning how so many folks were ball washing Nibali because he was supposedly "unstoppable" during the TDF this year. I pointed out that most/all of the top riders were out, so that would mean ANY rider had the chance to win, and i remember more than a few claiming Nibali was clean, and didn't seem to be a doper....I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember laughing about it.

I'm pretty sure I also mentioned how I didn't think Nibali's results were human, or something to that effect, and folks shot me down on that too.

I'll stand by what I said earlier in regards to Nibali: had most of the top riders been in that race, he wouldn't have won it. Just my opinion.

Edit: i also remember saying that i thought Cadel would've had just as much of a chance to win the Tour had he rode it, then Nibali and others, with all/most of the top riders out at the time. Again, MY opinion.

 

[ralphbert]

I'll stand by what I said earlier in regards to Nibali: had most of the top riders been in that race, he wouldn't have won it. Just my opinion.

Your not the only one with that opinion

 

[MonkeyFace]

Since this thread is all about Lemond, I'm putting this link in.

First Look: Lemond Washoe

Steel though? It must be heavy! But it's most likely a great bike!

Steel doesn't have to be heavy. I have a Colnago Technos that is just under 18 lbs. For 1-2 lbs you get something that doesn't crack, is easy to repair, and provides a comfortable ride. The talk about rust is way overrated as well. If you keep the paint up, wipe down your bike after a ride, and maybe use some sealant inside rust isn't an issue. I rode by Colnago in the winter in Minnesota and they salt the roads and never had issues aside from rust spotting on my fork where the chrome had chipped away. Rust should never be an issue if you don't abuse your bike. There're quality Colnago Mexico frames still around that are 40 years old that don't show rust.

Lemond makes good steel frames. The only other manufactures of quality steel now that I know of are Colnago and Waterford. Waterford I think only makes custom frames and Colnago quit sadly hand painting their frames a number of years back. They don't even have the stencils if you wanted to send them your frame to get it repainted.

 

[Microchip]

Steel doesn't have to be heavy. I have a Colnago Technos that is just under 18 lbs. For 1-2 lbs you get something that doesn't crack, is easy to repair, and provides a comfortable ride. The talk about rust is way overrated as well. If you keep the paint up, wipe down your bike after a ride, and maybe use some sealant inside rust isn't an issue. I rode by Colnago in the winter in Minnesota and they salt the roads and never had issues aside from rust spotting on my fork where the chrome had chipped away. Rust should never be an issue if you don't abuse your bike. There quality Colnago Mexico frames still around that are 40 years old that don't show rust.

Lemond makes good steel frames. The only other manufactures of quality steel now that I know of are Colnago and Waterford. Waterford I think only makes custom frames and Colnago quit sadly had painting their frames a number of years back. They don't even have the stencils if you wanted to send them your frame to get it repainted.

Good info!

 

[86TDFWinner]

Good info!

X2.......I'll most likely buy one too.

 

[Archibald]

Steel doesn't have to be heavy. I have a Colnago Technos that is just under 18 lbs. For 1-2 lbs you get something that doesn't crack, is easy to repair, and provides a comfortable ride. The talk about rust is way overrated as well. If you keep the paint up, wipe down your bike after a ride, and maybe use some sealant inside rust isn't an issue. I rode by Colnago in the winter in Minnesota and they salt the roads and never had issues aside from rust spotting on my fork where the chrome had chipped away. Rust should never be an issue if you don't abuse your bike. There're quality Colnago Mexico frames still around that are 40 years old that don't show rust.

Lemond makes good steel frames. The only other manufactures of quality steel now that I know of are Colnago and Waterford. Waterford I think only makes custom frames and Colnago quit sadly hand painting their frames a number of years back. They don't even have the stencils if you wanted to send them your frame to get it repainted.

Tomasini?
.