LeMond II

[D-Queued]

In this thread? After you posted I have an agenda after I point out GL BS? When you take up for an absolute clown that pulls something out of the blue 200 posts ago to jam me with, that I was unaware of?

Not in this thread. I'm slipping.

And, for the record, I never believed the mitochondrial myopia stuff.

It was pretty obvious at the time that the other guys were on something that he wasn't.

Thus, I was critical of him then for either being totally naive or upholding omerta.

Dave.

 

[Bluenote]

In this thread? After you posted I have an agenda after I point out GL BS? When you take up for an absolute clown that pulls something out of the blue 200 posts ago to jam me with, that I was unaware of?

Poor little ChrisE. Just ruining all his fun of making up strawmen positions for others.

Big bad Bluenote is such a meanie.

Objecting to strawmen and - gasp - quoting ChrisE's posts. Blue is ruining the internet, I mean, forums are supposed to be about strawmen (you're in a vacuum) and elbow throwing (clown, English as a 4th language, head up your ***).

But hey look, I get it Chris. If I spouted some of the assinine arguments you do, I wouldn't want them quoted either.

My two favorites so far:
- how could I possibly know when I - invented - a strawman position - for someone, that they actually thought something else?
- I didn't understand what 'Lemond isn't black and white' means.

Seriously, keep posting the b@tthurt excuses - they're comedy gold.

 

[Bluenote]

Not in this thread. I'm slipping.

And, for the record, I never believed the mitochondrial myopia stuff.

It was pretty obvious at the time that the other guys were on something that he wasn't.

Thus, I was critical of him then for either being totally naive or upholding omerta.

Dave.

He seems like a guy who can flip from being too trusting and open, to be almost paranoid, rather quickly. Some of his business problems seem to stem from assuming his business partners will uphold their end of things, without thoroughly researching the companies first.

I dunno, just my opinion. So I take both 'happy honeymoon' Lemond and 'hurt paranoid' Lemond with a grain of salt.

 

[Afrank]

Bluenote and ChrisE, I think it's time to move on.

 

[ChrisE]

Not in this thread. I'm slipping.

And, for the record, I never believed the mitochondrial myopia stuff.

It was pretty obvious at the time that the other guys were on something that he wasn't.

Thus, I was critical of him then for either being totally naive or upholding omerta.

Dave.

So, you never believed he had a medical condition, even though he announced it? You knew that real time? When you saw him get dropped in the Pyrenees in 91 you just knew it was doping that was taking down our squeaky clean hero? How insightful. Too bad the internet didn't exist at the time....you could have started an FFGL website and shed some light on this travesty.

And, I don't know how obvious it was....there have been threads in here showing Indurain's climbing progression and it was nothing completely out of whack until I believe 93.

But I understand. With the timeline of EPO creeping to the left, we have to be careful not to move it too far else Captain America will be beating EPO induced competition. 1991 it is, stage 9, TdF!

 

[Bluenote]

So, you never believed he had a medical condition, even though he announced it? You knew that real time? When you saw him get dropped in the Pyrenees in 91 you just knew it was doping that was taking down our squeaky clean hero? How insightful. Too bad the internet didn't exist at the time....you could have started an FFGL website and shed some light on this travesty.

And, I don't know how obvious it was....there have been threads in here showing Indurain's climbing progression and it was nothing completely out of whack until I believe 93.

But I understand. With the timeline of EPO creeping to the left, we have to be careful not to move it too far else Captain America will be beating EPO induced competition. 1991 it is, stage 9, TdF!

Captain America, he's cool now! Deal with it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JvHyk2ESFCI

 

[D-Queued]

So, you never believed he had a medical condition, even though he announced it? You knew that real time? When you saw him get dropped in the Pyrenees in 91 you just knew it was doping that was taking down our squeaky clean hero? How insightful. Too bad the internet didn't exist at the time....you could have started an FFGL website and shed some light on this travesty.

And, I don't know how obvious it was....there have been threads in here showing Indurain's climbing progression and it was nothing completely out of whack until I believe 93.

But I understand. With the timeline of EPO creeping to the left, we have to be careful not to move it too far else Captain America will be beating EPO induced competition. 1991 it is, stage 9, TdF!

Yes, some obscure medical condition - one that has more to do with the nervous system than the pulmonary system - sounded like a wee bit of a stretch. Moreover, I had a low opinion of professional cycling at the time, dominated as it was by Euros with extensive doping history.

WRT Indurain, you need to look a little further down the classification and consider Cappuccino. That story is old and much recounted, but he was one of the first transformed donkeys.

Dave.

 

[blutto]

Yes, some obscure medical condition - one that has more to do with the nervous system than the pulmonary system - sounded like a wee bit of a stretch. Moreover, I had a low opinion of professional cycling at the time, dominated as it was by Euros with extensive doping history.

WRT Indurain, you need to look a little further down the classification and consider Cappuccino. That story is old and much recounted, but he was one of the first transformed donkeys.

Dave.

"Mitochondrial disease is a group of disorders caused by dysfunctional mitochondria, the organelles that generate energy for the cell. Mitochondria are found in every cell of the human body except red blood cells, and convert the energy of food molecules into the ATP that powers most cell functions..."

....and LeMond beat that drum into the mid 1990's ( he often spoke to various support groups of people with the disease....sort of like the way Lance tied himself to cancer support groups...)...then that excuse faded to replaced by something else...

...oddly enough one of the contributing factors to the onset of the disease are environmental factors such as those that produce high levels of iron in the system ( which as we all know LeMond often used iron shots to deal with bouts of anemia....which now that I think of it is a pretty weird thing for a world class endurance to have....or maybe not?...)

Cheers

 

[Semper Fidelis]

So you don't have a source / link that supports your claim that Lemond knew that Armstrong was doping in '99.

So you'll be retracting that statement?

Or clarifying it 'in my opinion...'

Dude the world of cycling knew! There is no need for a source.

The peeps that actually followed cycling before LA knew he must be on drugs. Most of those still cheered him on without the knowledge or the extent of the doping syndicate.

 

[thehog]

Dude the world of cycling knew! There is no need for a source.

The peeps that actually followed cycling before LA knew he must be on drugs. Most of those still cheered him on without the knowledge or the extent of the doping syndicate.

LeMond admitted he knew Armstrong was doping 1999 in a recent documentary.

 

[red_flanders]

LeMond admitted he knew Armstrong was doping 1999 in a recent documentary.

Knew, or believed and could not talk about the evidence or how he "knew"?

 

[blutto]

Knew, or believed and could not talk about the evidence or how he "knew"?

...well...there were business interests to consider as well....

Cheers

 

[thehog]

Knew, or believed and could not talk about the evidence or how he "knew"?

Irrevant. He stated he knew albeit someone pointed it out to him.

 

[Bluenote]

Irrevant. He stated he knew albeit someone pointed it out to him.

Seems pretty relevant to me. Suspecting something is "off" with someone and having enough hard evidence you feel like you can publicly accuse them are two different things.

Look at what happened to all the people who accused Armstrong, with limited evidence - Betsy, Walsh, Anderson, etc...

 

[Scott SoCal]

Irrevant. He stated he knew albeit someone pointed it out to him.

Oh yeah. The legal term for that hearsay. Synonyms are "rumor" and "gossip."

"a friend of a friend told me Armstrong is a doper."

So what?

 

[thehog]

Oh yeah. The legal term for that hearsay. Synonyms are "rumor" and "gossip."

"a friend of a friend told me Armstrong is a doper."

So what?

I can only report what was stated in the documentary.

Your aggression is noted, are you always this defensive?

 

[Scott SoCal]

I can only report what was stated in the documentary.

Your aggression is noted, are you always this defensive?

Your aggression is noted, are you always this defensive?

Oh do try and make up your mind. Am I aggressive or am I defensive?

I can only report what was stated in the documentary.

And that's cool. Just don't claim the follow up questions to be irrelevant. They are the opposite of irrelevant.

 

[thehog]

Oh do try and make up your mind. Am I aggressive or am I defensive?



And that's cool. Just don't claim the follow up questions to be irrelevant. They are the opposite of irrelevant.

Don't?

As you are now, I'm expressing an opinion.

 

[red_flanders]

Irrevant. He stated he knew albeit someone pointed it out to him.

Whether it's relevant depends on why you bring it up. Why are you bringing it up? Thanks.

 

[red_flanders]

Seems pretty relevant to me. Suspecting something is "off" with someone and having enough hard evidence you feel like you can publicly accuse them are two different things.

Look at what happened to all the people who accused Armstrong, with limited evidence - Betsy, Walsh, Anderson, etc...

Yes, this is why I'm asking for the details on what he knew in 1999.

 

[red_flanders]

Just for context, I also "knew" Armstrong was doping in 1999. As did anyone with a functioning brain and general understanding of cycling.

However, when I said "It's obvious he's doping" and "Yes, I do know he's doping" in online forums, I got flamed beyond all human belief by the idiots who wanted or needed to believe in him.

It was patently obvious he was doping. If someone in the sport had told me they had information that he was doping, I'd not have been surprised. However, I would also have had no evidence, and hardly would have announced it if I were a current or former pro cyclist, let along Greg LeMond.

When the link to Ferrari came out, voila, evidence, or at least possible evidence for what was already obvious. I would consider LeMond's comments very mild, and with the "way out" that he said "if it's true he's working with Ferrari".

I don't see why folks needed to construct the "he's jealous" narrative then, and whatever narrative is being created nearly 15 years later. Maybe he was jealous back then. To imagine that's why he commented (he was responding to a specific question) is a stretch for which there is no evidence, only opinion. Un-informed opinion at that.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

And you've been tossing Armsrtong's salad since the early days of the DP forums.

(something less offensive please) I just had to laugh when I saw your post. Man the good ole DP forums. Wonder what ChrisT, House, and Rational Head are doing these days.

Nice reply by ChrisE I see.

 

[red_flanders]

(something less offensive please) I just had to laugh when I saw your post. Man the good ole DP forums. Wonder what ChrisT, House, and Rational Head are doing these days.

Nice reply by ChrisE I see.

Hey, I'm not a mod anymore. My standards have dropped, and some things need to be said. Still hanging on to that sig line, eh?

Don't forget Gearhead and Campy Bob.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Hey, I'm not a mod anymore. My standards have dropped, and some things need to be said. Still hanging on to that sig line, eh?

Don't forget Gearhead and Campy Bob.

Yeah and wareagle.

I like my signature! That was one of the more funny exchanges I have had on this forum so I decided to keep it.

Lemond well I know ChrisE does not like him and points out a few things in that regard. He gets dumped on by Socal and DQdave. That is some seriously entertaining posts.

Now before I get beat up to much ...wasn't lemonds vo2 at 92? Compare that to an 80 well then that is a huge difference.

Funny how none of these favorites or folks that Lemond made reference to with respect to the new cyclist talent and such ....he never questions the lack of a published Vo2 number. Odd.

 

[thehog]

Whether it's relevant depends on why you bring it up. Why are you bringing it up? Thanks.

I was responding to another user who said there was no source whether LeMond knew or not prior to 2001. Thanks.