LeMond II

[SundayRider]

I'm currently printing these paragraphs out to frame.

Just brilliant and ever so apt.

Floyd, saying what has been said in the clinic since 2012. What we need is a journalist like the one who works for the Sunday Times who helped expose Armstrong, to look into Leinders and Sky. What was his name again?

 

[rhubroma]

I agree with a lot of this. Lance was a bully. And I said it again on twitter earlier this week that he still doesn't seem to 'get' it. Lifetime ban for him I don't care. But I do care about the ridiculous suspensions elsewhere and this has somehow been construed as me being a lance fan...been blocked by him about ten times! But as time has gone on I see the faults of the other side so much. Travis is a joke. Justin Gatlin being one small example...Travis went on a world tour lecturing us all for months. Google Travis and exum. Travis in other cases broke rules, guidelines, chain of custody, paperwork gone missing and then invented...Horner even if he was banned this minute, it's still two years too late by usada. And as for the mess that is and was Garmin, Ryder and jv...them apparently being told initially there would be zero month bans. Then George being allowed to ride the tour before his ban, which wasn't a ban at all as he'd been retired.
But back to Greg, he's a disgrace. When kimmage's rough ride came out, I didn't see Greg say this sounds true. When Greg retired he blamed his health. Later on he blamed epo. He tells Kimmage that guys like fignon and Kelly are amongst the greats...they both doped. He said Pantani is a great. Doped. Said Evans was clean. Doped. Said Oleg was good for cycling. Told riders to dope. Sits in the back of a car stroking his ego with Miguel who we all know doped and was one of the biggest beneficiaries of epo, he was the prototype of epo benefits...muscular frame adding to the drug's effectiveness. It makes no sense for Greg to blame epo on certain things, for him retiring early, but then laud these same guys. Greg interjected himself into landis' case. Had zero reason, only as a way of getting to lance. Him asking Floyd to come clean and volunteering this phone call, the contents of which the Feds later established never happened, was clearly a way to get to lance because they rode together.
There was a time I readily accept when I admired the crowd who went against lance. But as time has gone on, my views have changed. Not my views on lance that much, my argument re: lance now is I've no issue banning him for life, I don't care, but set against the others, it's a joke.
Frankie. 2005 sca case. That testimony. I only found out fairly recently what he said. People don't seem au fait with it.
Again there are people who have gotten this name as being anti doping, but history has shown them to say not a word about anyone other than lance.

In 2008 Greg said cycling was on a slow death march. This Week he said these years were evidence of much improvement because of Evans. That's rent a quote playing to the audience right there.

Personally, as regards LA, it was the doping "only" in so far as he (and the UCI) played upon American ignorance (or its puritanical image) to "demonstrate" how good'ol Yankee values, like "hard work" and "dedication" could override the image of the dirty Euro sport, within which the cancer foundation played a propagandistic role, for immense economic returns. As if an American athlete, because American, had a more wholesome set of values and stood for an ethical position, and as if US sport wasn't rife with steroid abuse and other doping, or as if the entire world must view the country as the eternal paladin of righteousness against evil al la the Cold War Olympic stage against the Soviets and the Iron Curtain. I realize this goes beyond the Texan's formal case, but the anthropology and sociology is totally relevant, and if many Americans could actually believe that LA was clean for so long, deep down, this was why; which is the soft power and post-Cold War histoire de longue durée at work.

Beyond this, even if intellectually for me it was fundamental, it wasn't the doping, but the bullying and the Mafioso attitude and the nastiness of Lance, for which I have no qualms about the Texan being banned for life. And all of the rest of the hypocrisy surrounding his case and within the sport, won't change my thinking that Lance got what was coming to him. As regards Lemond, I have already said he is quickly becoming an embarrassment, which is a shame.

Knowing what was going on and watching it from Europe was farcical. Don't get me wrong, I find doping terrible, and have every reason to be bitter about races that were lost because riding on pane e acqua. On the other hand given the choice between despising the entire sport and being content about my own choice, I have chosen the latter, rather than give up on the entire movement.

 

[86TDFWinner]

But back to Greg, he's a disgrace. Told riders to dope.

What riders did he tell to dope, who were they?

 

[86TDFWinner]

86 TDF
With all due respect, we have been through this before, and i'm not going to bother getting into a back and forth with you.
This I will say (repeat):
I do not know that Lemond doped. Just like I don't know that any cyclist dopes.

Then stop making ridiculous, bogus claims you know are untrue, just to try to get your point across.

The reference to someone who is clearly not a nice person was to Armstrong.

It didn't appear that way, but you're correct in that Wonderboy isn't a very nice fellow.

I'm sorry I keep ****ing you off, but it's really not my intention. I'm just here to shoot the **** and voice my opinion.

You're not "****ing me off" at all as much as you're just talking out of your behind, just to try to get your invalid point across. Why even say something like that if you already know it's untrue?

Here's something to make you feel better: Greg LeMond was the greatest cyclist ever.

I wouldn't say that. I would say however, that he is the greatest American cyclist ever probably(while I must mention Davis Phinney here as well). My opinion of course.

He never touched a doping product ever, despite the fact that everyone around him was taking anything they could get their hands on to gain an upper hand. Greg Lemond was probably the best athlete ever to walk the earth.

"Everyone around him", You sure? When did Andy Hampsten/Roy Knickman/Phinney/Bauer and others do this, please explain?

 

[movingtarget]

Lemond's white knight act is getting a bit tiresome. He is enjoying his time keeping his foot firmly on Armstrong's throat but his praise for certain riders and not for others in an era when just about everyone was suspect seems strange especially when he had already left the sport re some of the riders he is supporting. And would not be in a position to know who was doing what. At the moment I would believe Ricco as much as believe Lemond. He is starting to sound more than a little hysterical.

 

[Digger]

What riders did he tell to dope, who were they?

You matched two lines miles apart in my post to make it look like I claimed Greg told riders to dope.

 

[sniper]

You matched two lines miles apart in my post to make it look like I claimed Greg told riders to dope.

seems he honestly thought you said that about Greg, whereas you probably meant Tinkoff.

 

[Digger]

seems he honestly thought you said that about Greg, whereas you probably meant Tinkoff.

yes I meant Oleg

 

[blutto]

A couple of things have started to become glaring. When Lemond's career was over, he claimed it was because of the hunting accident, when Armstrong became the boss, doping.

...actually the original given reason for the end of Lemond's career was a mitochondria issue...and that reason was buttressed in intereviews and official -like articles by much serious medical speak and Lemond, in a move similar to Armstrong's cancer thang, became for several years actively involved with mitochondria support groups....then that story underwent a sea change, and mitochondria excuse kinda disappeared, to be replaced with doping as the new real reason for his career's demise....

...and then Lemond became the super duper anti-doping crusader....which has recently morphed into something way less than a super duper anti-doping crusader...curiouser and curiouser ain't it ?...

...and speaking of the excommunicated former saint of cycling Mr. Armstrong, found out the other day he had a tie in with a mutual fund thru his Livestrong scam...guess the cancer thang wasn't generating enough revenue so he had to hitch a ride with the scummy investment side of the banking biz to further feather his nest...

Cheers

 

[86TDFWinner]

Lemond's white knight act is getting a bit tiresome. He is enjoying his time keeping his foot firmly on Armstrong's throat but his praise for certain riders and not for others in an era when just about everyone was suspect seems strange especially when he had already left the sport re some of the riders he is supporting. And would not be in a position to know who was doing what. At the moment I would believe Ricco as much as believe Lemond. He is starting to sound more than a little hysterical.

I do have to agree with you here, Greg does need to just shut it down for a bit, as he does come off as flip flopping.

 

[86TDFWinner]

You matched two lines miles apart in my post to make it look like I claimed Greg told riders to dope.

Your EXACT words(No mention of Tinkoff here, so anyone can see how I or anyone else could think you were talking about Greg):

But back to Greg, he's a disgrace. When kimmage's rough ride came out, I didn't see Greg say this sounds true. When Greg retired he blamed his health. Later on he blamed epo. He tells Kimmage that guys like fignon and Kelly are amongst the greats...they both doped. He said Pantani is a great. Doped. Said Evans was clean. Doped. Said Oleg was good for cycling. Told riders to dope. Sits in the back of a car stroking his ego with Miguel who we all know doped and was one of the biggest beneficiaries of epo, he was the prototype of epo benefits...muscular frame adding to the drug's effectiveness.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If you all are looking for a perfectly consistent cycling superhero, it's never going to happen.

 

[Digger]

Your EXACT words(No mention of Tinkoff here, so anyone can see how I or anyone else could think you were talking about Greg):

But back to Greg, he's a disgrace. When kimmage's rough ride came out, I didn't see Greg say this sounds true. When Greg retired he blamed his health. Later on he blamed epo. He tells Kimmage that guys like fignon and Kelly are amongst the greats...they both doped. He said Pantani is a great. Doped. Said Evans was clean. Doped. Said Oleg was good for cycling. Told riders to dope. Sits in the back of a car stroking his ego with Miguel who we all know doped and was one of the biggest beneficiaries of epo, he was the prototype of epo benefits...muscular frame adding to the drug's effectiveness.

Yes Oleg told riders to dope - jesus how hard is this to understand. And Greg praised Oleg - said we needed guys like him.

 

[the sceptic]

If you all are looking for a perfectly consistent cycling superhero, it's never going to happen.

I think many people view the likes of Lemond, Walsh and JV as heroes because they took down the arch evil, Lance.

but at the end of the day, they were in it for personal reasons. Now they have become omerta themselves and are protecting current dopers in the same way people used to protect the Lance myth.

Hell, even Lance is showing some human signs lately, so I think it's a bit more complicated than "good" vs "evil"

 

[Dr. Juice]

Fignon and Lemond did not take EPO otherwise they wouldn't go from untouchable to barely competitive within 2 years at age 31/32 while EPO is introduced into the peloton.

The comments are another thing. Greg hates Armstrong and what he did (rightly so) but turns a blind eye on general doping or on details of certain riders who dope.

Fignon doped with amphetamines but that's another level. Like caffeine with a bit of euphoria. The important thing is that Fingon and Lemond refused blood doping.

 

[Digger]

Fignon and Lemond did not take EPO otherwise they wouldn't go from untouchable to barely competitive within 2 years at age 31/32 while EPO is introduced into the peloton.

The comments are another thing. Greg hates Armstrong and what he did (rightly so) but turns a blind eye on general doping or on details of certain riders who dope.

Fignon doped with amphetamines but that's another level. Like caffeine with a bit of euphoria. The important thing is that Fingon and Lemond refused blood doping.

Fignon also doped with cortisone - and if we are saying it's ok to dope with one product, but not another, then that's off the wall.

 

[ray j willings]

Imo Lemond was jealous of Armstrong's success . Armstrong took cycling to a new level of popularity. He got the kind of rewards and exposure that Lemond never had. LA took cycling to the masses.
I quite like Lemond but he knew there was mass doping going on [ read his book] and just like Tygart ,going only after Armstrong deflects the issue of mass doping and just becomes a witch hunt to blame one man for all of cycling's doping issues. What i'm trying to say "he's a bit of a " Co%k juggling thundercu$t "

 

[MarkvW]

Yes Oleg told riders to dope - jesus how hard is this to understand. And Greg praised Oleg - said we needed guys like him.

Perhaps this is where Greg LeMond agrees with Floyd Landis' AWESOME quote.

“In light of all of this, the comments from Greg, Armstrong, Leinders and Zorzoli, it's not surprising that virtually all legitimate sponsors have fled the sport. It is now financed primarily by bored wealthy men who need a reason to give their wives about why they spend so much time with young leg-shaving men in tight pants.”

Maybe cycling has devolved to the point where it is "men who ... spend so much time with young leg-shaving men in tight pants" or nothing?

 

[86TDFWinner]

Yes Oleg told riders to dope - jesus how hard is this to understand. And Greg praised Oleg - said we needed guys like him.

But YOU didn't mention Oleg saying that in that post I quoted did you? No, not till after. You lumped it all together, so pretty much anyone reading it would think you were talking about LeMond saying that.


How hard is it FOR YOU to understand that? Even other posters said the same thing.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Imo Lemond was jealous of Armstrong's success . Armstrong took cycling to a new level of popularity. He got the kind of rewards and exposure that Lemond never had. LA took cycling to the masses.
I quite like Lemond but he knew there was mass doping going on [ read his book] and just like Tygart ,going only after Armstrong deflects the issue of mass doping and just becomes a witch hunt to blame one man for all of cycling's doping issues. What i'm trying to say "he's a bit of a " Co%k juggling thundercu$t "

How was it a "witch hunt" when it was proven that Wonder boy was a massive cheater, who got busted? Please explain.

Also, that "deflection of massive doping going on" was found to be correct as well. No "witch hunt".

 

[MarkvW]

How was it a "witch hunt" when it was proven that Wonder boy was a massive cheater, who got busted? Please explain.

Also, that "deflection of massive doping going on" was found to be correct as well. No "witch hunt".

I think he's just trolling, or doesn't know the history. LeMond said all the right PR things about Armstrong until the doping became just too obvious.

 

[thehog]

I think he's just trolling, or doesn't know the history. LeMond said all the right PR things about Armstrong until the doping became just too obvious.

I think LeMond's "shift" came when his 3 time American Tour winner record was threatened.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I think many people view the likes of Lemond, Walsh and JV as heroes because they took down the arch evil, Lance.

but at the end of the day, they were in it for personal reasons. Now they have become omerta themselves and are protecting current dopers in the same way people used to protect the Lance myth.

Hell, even Lance is showing some human signs lately, so I think it's a bit more complicated than "good" vs "evil"

IMO, it was an optimistic time. All that has been destroyed by the UCI changing nothing and no one outside the UCI getting some legitimate alternative going.

Again, finding fault is easy. It doesn't change Lemond's legitimacy.

As a matter of fact, EPO+Test+HGH was a revolution. Everything before it was not comparable at all.

 

[MarkvW]

I think LeMond's "shift" came when his 3 time American Tour winner record was threatened.

That just might be a part of it.

 

[MarkvW]

IMO, it was an optimistic time. All that has been destroyed by the UCI changing nothing and no one outside the UCI getting some legitimate alternative going.

Again, finding fault is easy. It doesn't change Lemond's legitimacy.

As a matter of fact, EPO+Test+HGH was a revolution. Everything before it was not comparable at all.

Somebody ought to start doing longitudinal studies of professional cyclists. I suspect that their later-life health characteristics will also not be comparable.