LeMond II

[rhubroma]

...actually the original given reason for the end of Lemond's career was a mitochondria issue...and that reason was buttressed in intereviews and official -like articles by much serious medical speak and Lemond, in a move similar to Armstrong's cancer thang, became for several years actively involved with mitochondria support groups....then that story underwent a sea change, and mitochondria excuse kinda disappeared, to be replaced with doping as the new real reason for his career's demise....

...and then Lemond became the super duper anti-doping crusader....which has recently morphed into something way less than a super duper anti-doping crusader...curiouser and curiouser ain't it ?...

...and speaking of the excommunicated former saint of cycling Mr. Armstrong, found out the other day he had a tie in with a mutual fund thru his Livestrong scam...guess the cancer thang wasn't generating enough revenue so he had to hitch a ride with the scummy investment side of the banking biz to further feather his nest...

Cheers

To the bold the disease was supposed to have been a side effect of the hunting accident, which was my point.

 

[blutto]

To the bold the disease was supposed to have been a side effect of the hunting accident, which was my point.

....would love to see how you think one connects directly to the other....because the two pathologies are quite different....or were you just recounting the official story ?....

Cheers

 

[Dear Wiggo]

....would love to see how you think one connects directly to the other....because the two pathologies are quite different....or were you just recounting the official story ?....

Cheers

"supposed to"

 

[rhubroma]

....would love to see how you think one connects directly to the other....because the two pathologies are quite different....or were you just recounting the official story ?....

Cheers

I initially said the hunting accident caused the retirement, which, following your observation, I noted, as Greg said, resulted from the pathology it produced. So what didn't you understand?

Not being a specialized medic, I wouldn't know if the one were related to the other. My point was near recent news.

 

[86TDFWinner]

IMO, it was an optimistic time. All that has been destroyed by the UCI changing nothing and no one outside the UCI getting some legitimate alternative going.

Again, finding fault is easy. It doesn't change Lemond's legitimacy.

As a matter of fact, EPO+Test+HGH was a revolution. Everything before it was not comparable at all.

Agreed. I think you're spot on here.

 

[Night Rider]

Fignon doped with amphetamines but that's another level. Like caffeine with a bit of euphoria. The important thing is that Fingon and Lemond refused blood doping.

Well, it's another level in performance. But it's not another level in terms or morality and cheating. He* doped with what he had available. He was a cheat like others before and after him.

*Fignon, not Lemond.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I think many people view the likes of Lemond, Walsh and JV as heroes because they took down the arch evil, Lance.

but at the end of the day, they were in it for personal reasons. Now they have become omerta themselves and are protecting current dopers in the same way people used to protect the Lance myth.

Hell, even Lance is showing some human signs lately, so I think it's a bit more complicated than "good" vs "evil"

I am going to point this out because wait and see...this is important. Lance is repositioning himself as 'contrite' and 'softening' and 'willing to help'..

he keeps humming the mantra of "being the first in line to help cycling."..
watch.
he won't.He has legal reasons.

W/R to Greg..some of his 'pals' are showtime in front of his employers' camera..he does not go hang around and ride with these past doping winners does he

unlike some of the new generation that we are seeing...

 

[Avoriaz]

I think LeMond's "shift" came when his 3 time American Tour winner record was threatened.

Good post, Hog, and in my opinion, bang on the money. It was all about his own legacy

 

[RiccoDinko]

Well, it's another level in performance. But it's not another level in terms or morality and cheating. He* doped with what he had available. He was a cheat like others before and after him.

*Fignon, not Lemond.

Excellent post. Cheating is cheating, you do, or you don't. Coppi, Merckx, Finault, they would have EPOd or blood bagged if it was available.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

Guys... By my forum name you know where I stand so many of you will think I lack credibility, but anyway...

I've read the last 10 pages of this thread and there are some simple things I'd like to say.

Basically, I think most of you guys are over-analyzing Greg's behaviour. Big time. You make it sound like he has an agenda, a PR strategy or whatever... But the truth is more simple.

During all his public life Greg's been in trouble for speaking to journalists. They ask, he answers. He's like that. Some people might think it's stupid. Some others, like me, think it's what's makes him a nice, open and interesting individual. Boyer, Argentin, Fignon, Hinault, Chiappucci... all got into a fight with Greg like that. It was way before Armstrong.

What's ironic is that Greg got caught into the Armstrong storm with a very cautious sentence (for him). He just stated 2 hypothesis : "if he is clean = greatest comeback" "if he's not = fraud". It's not even an accusation. Based on that single line, journalists portrayed him as the "white knight of anti-doping", rambling on that single sentence. It's not as if he had done a tour of every press title screaming the bloody thing. In that he is the exact opposite of Armstrong who is a PR junkie. I don't think Greg even HAS a PR person...

As to Greg's motivations... You guys think he's in for the money ? Really ? He's in for FUN ! He's spent a decade in hiding because people were throwing garbage at him, for christ's sake ! Now that his name is proper again don't you think he deserves to ENJOY it just a little bit ??? Go on races, receive awards & distinctions, rebuild the LeMond bikes brand (that Armstrong destroyed, remember). If it was about money he'd just write a book and count the dollar bills.

About his career ending... To be honest, I think Greg's still searching for an accurate answer. In his last 4 years as a pro he struggled to keep up, questioned his training and such... There are probably multiple factors but it's hard to single out just one of them. And he'll probably look for an answer for as long as he lives.

About the "lack of consistency". If Greg is an hypocrite, then we all are. The only person I know doesn't lack consistency is Paul Kimmage. And he proved it is impossible to be consistent while actually enjoy watching a pro bike race. It's as simple as that.

Again, Greg's angst with Armstrong has not so much to do with doping as it has with BULLYING people. He said repeatedly that he believes the riders are the first victims of doping (Pantani is a perfect example).

Then, if you guys, informed as you are on this very forum, still believe doping with EPO is the same as doping pre-EPO, I don't know what else to tell you than to read what I wrote in there :

https://greglemondfans.wordpress.com/2014/05/03/dark-side-of-the-lake/

In short : between 1985 and 1990, performance progress of 0.28%, whereas between 1990 & 1995 the progress on the very same course is 7.62%

Peace.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Guys... By my forum name you know where I stand so many of you will think I lack credibility, but anyway...

I've read the last 10 pages of this thread and there are some simple things I'd like to say.

Basically, I think most of you guys are over-analyzing Greg's behaviour. Big time. You make it sound like he has an agenda, a PR strategy or whatever... But the truth is more simple.

During all his public life Greg's been in trouble for speaking to journalists. They ask, he answers. He's like that. Some people might think it's stupid. Some others, like me, think it's what's makes him a nice, open and interesting individual. Boyer, Argentin, Fignon, Hinault, Chiappucci... all got into a fight with Greg like that. It was way before Armstrong.

What's ironic is that Greg got caught into the Armstrong storm with a very cautious sentence (for him). He just stated 2 hypothesis : "if he is clean = greatest comeback" "if he's not = fraud". It's not even an accusation. Based on that single line, journalists portrayed him as the "white knight of anti-doping", rambling on that single sentence. It's not as if he had done a tour of every press title screaming the bloody thing. In that he is the exact opposite of Armstrong who is a PR junkie. I don't think Greg even HAS a PR person...

As to Greg's motivations... You guys think he's in for the money ? Really ? He's in for FUN ! He's spent a decade in hiding because people were throwing garbage at him, for christ's sake ! Now that his name is proper again don't you think he deserves to ENJOY it just a little bit ??? Go on races, receive awards & distinctions, rebuild the LeMond bikes brand (that Armstrong destroyed, remember). If it was about money he'd just write a book and count the dollar bills.

About his career ending... To be honest, I think Greg's still searching for an accurate answer. In his last 4 years as a pro he struggled to keep up, questioned his training and such... There are probably multiple factors but it's hard to single out just one of them. And he'll probably look for an answer for as long as he lives.

About the "lack of consistency". If Greg is an hypocrite, then we all are. The only person I know doesn't lack consistency is Paul Kimmage. And he proved it is impossible to be consistent while actually enjoy watching a pro bike race. It's as simple as that.

Again, Greg's angst with Armstrong has not so much to do with doping as it has with BULLYING people. He said repeatedly that he believes the riders are the first victims of doping (Pantani is a perfect example).

Then, if you guys, informed as you are on this very forum, still believe doping with EPO is the same as doping pre-EPO, I don't know what else to tell you than to read what I wrote in there :

https://greglemondfans.wordpress.com/2014/05/03/dark-side-of-the-lake/

In short : between 1985 and 1990, performance progress of 0.28%, whereas between 1990 & 1995 the progress on the very same course is 7.62%

Peace.

Thankx

good post

 

[DirtyWorks]

....
*Fignon, not Lemond.

You mean the guy that won the TdF on his first try?

Again, the term revolutionary is over used, but that's what EPO was. As in, everything before it is nothing like what comes after.

Fignon was no angel, no problem. But comparing Fignon to anything about Mr. 60% or later can't be done. It's like comparing a wooden wheel to a vaguely modern bike wheel. They are both round.. End.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Excellent post. Cheating is cheating, you do, or you don't. Coppi, Merckx, Finault, they would have EPOd or blood bagged if it was available.

This is easy to post, but it's not an accurate summary of anything. Again, EPO changed everything and the sport changed radically under Verbruggen.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

snip

I'm a fan of Mr. Lemond, and all of the stupidity posted here suggesting that his feud with Armstrong is his fault is just that, fu*king stupid. He made a small comment (that was completely legitimate regarding using Ferrari, lets not pretend otherwise), and Armstrong blew it into a full-blown war, and Greg suffered because of that. It's just troll BS to suggest otherwise.

That being said, if he was praising Cadel in Australia, and saying that Cuddles was a "victim." That's stupid also. No way around it. Cuddles was as complicit as anyone, and didn't just dope to hang around. He was full-program, and to think that he was a victim in that is blind.

Either way, he's still the only American winner of the Tour de France, so he's obviously a nation treasure also.

EDIT: I also agree with your point about hypocrisy, however, when a certain poster likes to use the term "Fu*k the hypocrisy," and they are in turn a massive hypocrite, it really can be galling to read their drivel.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Excellent post. Cheating is cheating, you do, or you don't. Coppi, Merckx, Finault, they would have EPOd or blood bagged if it was available.

This is easy to post, and technically correct. but it's not an accurate summary of anything. Again, EPO changed everything and the sport changed radically under Verbruggen.

 

[DirtyWorks]

That being said, if he was praising Cadel in Australia, and saying that Cuddles was a "victim." That's stupid also. No way around it. Cuddles was as complicit as anyone, and didn't just dope to hang around. He was full-program, and to think that he was a victim in that is blind.

Either way, he's still the only American winner of the Tour de France, so he's obviously a nation treasure also.

He's got a job making nice in front of the camera. It doesn't change his legacy.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So is Greg the only clean winner of the TdF ever?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

He's got a job making nice in front of the camera. It doesn't change his legacy.

He went further than making nice. By describing Cuddles as a "victim," he exceeded what was appropriate or necessary.

EDIT: As for Lemond's comments about Indurain, that was really minimal, and it is hard to fault that unless you have an agenda. As for Pantani, I'm one of those people (apparently like Mr. Lemond) who believes it takes a special kind of scumbag to beat on dead people...but unfortunately, not everyone feels that way.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

So is Greg the only clean winner of the TdF ever?

Do you know?...

 

[Samson777]

So is Greg the only clean winner of the TdF ever?

Nibali is cleans.. http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/07/news/faith-nibali-clean-tour-champion-says-astana_338369

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Nibali is cleans.. http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/07/news/faith-nibali-clean-tour-champion-says-astana_338369

So are Froomedog, and Wiggo...all the new generation is cleans.

 

[blackcat]

Cuddles had Rominger as his manager, and was at Ferrari for some disputed amount of time.


good grief

seems legit

 

[Samson777]

So are Froomedog, and Wiggo...all the new generation is cleans.

Froome won clean just like Lemond.


Message approved by Greg Lemond: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-there-can-be-spectacular-performances-without-doping

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Froome won clean just like Lemond.


Message approved by Greg Lemond: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-there-can-be-spectacular-performances-without-doping

He also said this, on the same day...

Instead, he said Sky and other teams should release power data to be reviewed by independent panelists in conjunction with blood profiles to add to the biological passport program.

And he didn’t mince words about teams’ reluctance to release that data to experts.

“It’s bull****. That’s bull****. Because if you can’t release your watts … they’re doing it right now,” he said of teams reviewing power data following the stage. “They’re looking at it right now, bottom to the top.

“The worst part, there’s speculating on that. If you don’t have anything to hide, and you can repeat it, give it to everybody.”


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...release-power-data_295268#Of8FiEDjsTQ3y4tH.99

Selective quotation seems to be the norm here lately...

 

[DirtyWorks]

He went further than making nice. By describing Cuddles as a "victim," he exceeded what was appropriate or necessary.

And wants performance data released to validate performance.

Again, the mythical perfectly consistent athlete will never be found. Lemond's doing okay.

Expect more confounding behavior real soon.