Lemond The Last Rider To Win The Tour Clean?

[Race Radio]

There is zero evidence that LeMond used EPO, ZERO. Even Armstrong's offer of $300,000 did not change that.

Drives the groupies crazy that they cannot pin anything on Lemond

 

[flicker]

Lemond was clean, end of. Not a SINGLE shred of evidence or an accusation from anyone else close to him. Not one in all these years.
Famously outspoken on the subject of peds, infamously paranoid( careful?) to avoid being spiked.
Disliked bya few nut jobs on here who iether do it to distract from real news or have some kinda personality dissorder and cant deal with a good but flawed human being ( like most peeps) and prefer there hero`s to be Super Man.

http://scottwilliamfoley.com/2007/11/29/the-psychology-of-superman/

Yeah Darryl the nut jobs who know LeMond. Nut jobs like Boyer and other cyclists and people who have done business with LeMond. I do admit LeMond makes a nice stationary bike and the Kliens Trek manufactured with LeMonds marquis were nice units...

 

[flicker]

I wonder why Greg is shocked on Contadors positive. I have been predicting a pos with Alberto for the past few years. I did listen when Greg got in Contadors face during the rest day during the tour a few years back. I think Greg had a paper in his hand featuring Albertos that had Albertos tour hemocrit on it. Plus Lance in Albertos face during this year and last years tour. Lance and Greg know who is doping. Neither Lance nor Greg approve of doping.

 

[Benotti69]

Flicky's back with his hilarity

anyone see the movie 12 monkey's. remember the asylum, i reckon that's where Flicky, Uniballpolisher, chris E et al log on from.

 

[flicker]

Flicky's back with his hilarity

anyone see the movie 12 monkey's. remember the asylum, i reckon that's where Flicky, Uniballpolisher, chris E et al log on from.

I think what LeMond should have said was "Kathy and I have been dreaming about Contador having a positive for years." ever since Contador rode for Liberty Seguros Wurth we have been suspicious of Alberto. When he had the brain surgery we knew that he had been a ped abuser. Further compounding this was how Contador was able to make his extra-terrestial climbs during his Grand Tour victories. Simply unbelievable. We are hoping that Contador has his TdF race wins stripped from him as he is about to surpass my record that cheat Alberto. I am not saying this out of jealousy or bitterness I am saying this for the good of the sport which Kathy and I love so well."

I joke, sorry Greg

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I am convinced Greg has been saying Contador is clean for some time to annoy Lance.

Declaring the subject of the Sociopath's obsession as clean and honest while stating repeatdely that The Sociopath is a cheat would really bug His Sociopathic Majesty.

This isn't a criticism of Greg - I admire him all the more for it. Anything that gives The Sociopath a pain in the a*s is a good thing.

 

[roundabout]

So esentially trolling Armstrong is a good thing now?

 

[galaxy1]

Lemond was clean, end of.

ok, so the arguments are more reasoned as i thought.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

So esentially trolling Armstrong is a good thing now?

Yes.

It is way less immoral than the crimes he is being invesitgated for.

Plus Greg is a decent human being, not a spiteful and vindictive sociopath.

 

[blutto]

There is zero evidence that LeMond used EPO, ZERO. Even Armstrong's offer of $300,000 did not change that.

Drives the groupies crazy that they cannot pin anything on Lemond

...first the idea of being clean does not begin and end with EPO...though EPO is definitely part of the cycling landscape at this point....

...second....if we are to apply the evidentiary rules used in these parts to lynch His Lanceness...someone should explain the rise of The Golden One from a Giro that began as a disaster in the making to the miracle of the 89 Tour to the Worlds....and this magic rise is, according to legend, due to injections of iron and B12 halfway thru the Giro....find below a post that states a position on the effectiveness of iron/B12 that has been confirmed by local specialists ( my wife is a medical researcher who is well connected with the local medical community so off-the-record chats are not that difficult to arrange )...this post is from....

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/How_do_we_shut_him_up_P2920866

---------------------------------------------------------------
After reading this a few minutes ago, it makes me think about his past.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/...o-the-new-generation

How does Greg Lemond get a free pass on doping when a closer look at his '89 tdf victory should raise eye brows.
I watched all the stages of the Giro that year in Italy, as Lemond was dropped from every climb on that years route. He looked pale and exhausted. Following his now famous tour victory, he has written many times that his former soigneur, Otto Jacome, noticed how pale he looked and diagnosed him as being severely anemic. He goes on to say that he gave him an IV dose of Iron that enabled him to recover and go on and win the TDF. As a doctor this story makes me laugh. I'm a surgeon and have even asked a Haematologist friend her opinion. She laughed and said, must have been EPO.
Lemond did look pale/anemic, and given his performance in the '89 Giro it's logical to assume he was. However, IV iron will not correct an anemic HCt in a month to a level needed to win the tour. EPO was FDA approved in '89 and available for his use. It's the only way outside of a blood transfusion to raise his HCt to a competitive level in such a short time. His story does not add up. He is part of the old generation. He should be pressed and produce his old CBC's, or just shut up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...as has been said said in these forums those types of injections have two other uses....one they were were used as masking agents to cover steroid use....and two see below...

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Any condition that predisposes patients to anaemia will inevitably create an inadequate response to ESA/EPO therapy, including deficiencies in iron, vitamin B12 and folate. (The Pharmaceutical Journal )

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...now it is absolutely correct that there is no hard evidence outside of the circumstantial stuff that has been offered here...someone on this forum has a tag line that questions the belief in miracles and unicorns...well so do I..so..

....always look the gift horse in the mouth and there is always a gorilla in the room...

Cheers, your special friend

blutto

 

[samerics]

...which begs the question ( if we are to be fair and apply the ineuendo that seems to be a stock-in-trade tool of the Lance haters crowd)...how did the squeaky clean Golden Boy`s miraculous TT time withstand a couple of decades of assault by the most drug addled TT specialists in history and armed with very trickest of go-fast gear...

Cheers

blutto

Downhill, tailwind. But then you knew that didn't you? No point in letting the facts get in the way of your prejudice!

 

[flicker]

I am convinced Greg has been saying Contador is clean for some time to annoy Lance.

Declaring the subject of the Sociopath's obsession as clean and honest while stating repeatdely that The Sociopath is a cheat would really bug His Sociopathic Majesty.

This isn't a criticism of Greg - I admire him all the more for it. Anything that gives The Sociopath a pain in the a*s is a good thing.

There is only one way to hurt the sociopath Armstrong is to ignore him.. Many of these sports heroes and film stars need to be in the limelight, these guys need to be stars.
It is like in the movie Frost/ Nixon. Nixon goes in front of the camara one last time to explain what happened in his own words.

These old warriors, LeMond/Armstrong/Nixon crave the spotlight. I really find it quite entertaining!

 

[gerigeri]

I hate the whole "fight against dope"...

I love cycling and I don't care about dope and hate dopefight. It poisons the enjoy of the race. This year's Tour was absolutely stunning. Lot of changes in the yellow jersey, bad lucks, and the big fight between the two great climbers. Although I'm not a Contador fan I would be very upset if he was disqualified.

Back to the topic. Why do you think LeMond was clean? He won over Fignon who admitted using dope... LeMond still has the fastest ITT over the "dopers" on a not too fast (cobble stone, sharp turns) course. How could it be that LeMond says Contador is clean (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-shocked-by-contador-positive) with a failed (questionable) test, while he thinks others doped without a positive test? The whole dope thing makes me upset, and I cannot enjoy races, because the result could be changed months after the end.

 

[Race Radio]

Random babble........triathlon forum.......
... it is absolutely correct that there is no hard evidence .........babbble

Let us know when you have some actual evidence of LeMond doping. So far nothing. No positives, no former teammates, support staff....Nothing. That $300,00 reward is still out there to claim.

 

[Race Radio]

I love cycling and I don't care about dope and hate dopefight. It poisons the enjoy of the race. This year's Tour was absolutely stunning. Lot of changes in the yellow jersey, bad lucks, and the big fight between the two great climbers. Although I'm not a Contador fan I would be very upset if he was disqualified.

Back to the topic. Why do you think LeMond was clean? He won over Fignon who admitted using dope... LeMond still has the fastest ITT over the "dopers" on a not too fast (cobble stone, sharp turns) course. How could it be that LeMond says Contador is clean (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-shocked-by-contador-positive) with a failed (questionable) test, while he thinks others doped without a positive test? The whole dope thing makes me upset, and I cannot enjoy races, because the result could be changed months after the end.

Only 1 km of the TT course was cobbled, the rest was downhill, straight, with the wind at his back. It was also only 12 miles long.

This has been repeated over and over and over but some continue post it in the lame attempt that some clueless person will think that it is evidence of LeMond doping.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Yeah Darryl the nut jobs who know LeMond. Nut jobs like Boyer and other cyclists and people who have done business with LeMond. I do admit LeMond makes a nice stationary bike and the Kliens Trek manufactured with LeMonds marquis were nice units...

Belief: The premis that you hold something to be true.
Once you believe something you realy have two choices, uphold the belief or change your mind.
Sensibly people resist beliefs and let the evidence be there guide, ie..." to the best of my understanding".
Nut jobs carrying on believing and deny the evidence or lack of till there blue in the face.
Extrapolating as "evidence" some great performances as sugesting doping, infering this and that etc, etc...but after all is said and done presenting not one shred of tangible evidence.
All sounds a bit to much like Religous zeal to me.
Have the ususal supsects found God?

 

[galaxy1]

unfortunately your own belief that Lemond deserves a free pass on doping is equally firm.
maybe it would be better if you simply "agreed to disagree".

 

[Race Radio]

unfortunately your own belief that Lemond deserves a free pass on doping is equally firm.
maybe it would be better if you simply "agreed to disagree".

I do not see any free pass, but where is the evidence? A 12 mile, downhill, TT is not evidence. Not matter how many times the same troll repeats it

There is zero evidence, or even rumor, that Greg doped. All of his former teammates have said that he was clean. There is no sudden jump in ability, If anything Greg was slower as a 30 year old then as a 22 year old. His Vo2 matched his output.

Mottet, Hampsten, and others rode clean in the 80's why not LeMond?

 

[VeloCity]

LeMond still has the fastest ITT over the "dopers" on a not too fast (cobble stone, sharp turns) course.

No, he doesn't - Zabriskie's 2005 prologue win (with Armstrong in second, just 2 seconds behind) on a flat but windy 19 km (roughly the same distance as the '89 Tour ITT) is the fastest ITT. Put those guys in the conditions that Lemond had - downhill, tailwind - and they'd be up around 55-60 km/hr.

 

[galaxy1]

I do not see any free pass, but where is the evidence? A 12 mile, downhill, TT is not evidence. Not matter how many times the same troll repeats it

There is zero evidence, or even rumor, that Greg doped. All of his former teammates have said that he was clean. There is no sudden jump in ability, If anything Greg was slower as a 30 year old then as a 22 year old. His Vo2 matched his output.

Mottet, Hampsten, and others rode clean in the 80's why not LeMond?

where is the evidence against _any_ of the others assumed to be dirty?
OK there is breaking news on Contador, and an ongoing investigation (no conviction or test result) into Armstrong. Pantani is generally believed to have been doping, and Riis confessed.
That still leaves Pereiro, Sastre, Ullrich in his younger years, and Indurain.
The evidence against them is the same as it is against Lemond - outstanding performances in a sport where the whiff of doping is/was everywhere.

 

[flicker]

I do not see any free pass, but where is the evidence? A 12 mile, downhill, TT is not evidence. Not matter how many times the same troll repeats it

There is zero evidence, or even rumor, that Greg doped. All of his former teammates have said that he was clean. There is no sudden jump in ability, If anything Greg was slower as a 30 year old then as a 22 year old. His Vo2 matched his output.

Mottet, Hampsten, and others rode clean in the 80's why not LeMond?

I really do not care if Greg doped or not. He was an awesome rider and he as of late brought nothing positive to cycling. Like I said before, Greg needs to sponsor a team of clean cyclists and I will get on Gregs bandwagon. I did not know before that Greg was involved with Garmin. Interestingly enough POM( Worlds largest distributer of pomegranate products)which is one of the Garmin teams sponsors is about to get sued by the federal government for false advertising.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

where is the evidence against _any_ of the others assumed to be dirty?
OK there is breaking news on Contador, and an ongoing investigation (no conviction or test result) into Armstrong. Pantani is generally believed to have been doping, and Riis confessed.
That still leaves Pereiro, Sastre, Ullrich in his younger years, and Indurain.
The evidence against them is the same as it is against Lemond - outstanding performances in a sport where the whiff of doping is/was everywhere.

When you say that "Pantani is generally believed to have been doping" may I ask what "evidence" you have to make such a claim?

 

[Race Radio]

where is the evidence against _any_ of the others assumed to be dirty?
OK there is breaking news on Contador, and an ongoing investigation (no conviction or test result) into Armstrong. Pantani is generally believed to have been doping, and Riis confessed.
That still leaves Pereiro, Sastre, Ullrich in his younger years, and Indurain.
The evidence against them is the same as it is against Lemond - outstanding performances in a sport where the whiff of doping is/was everywhere.

You clearly have not been paying attention. The Evidence is far more for all of these guys.

Indurian- Used Conconi and Sabino Padilla, both proven doping doctors. Tested positive for Clenbuterol. Teamate Thomas Davy testified that there was an organized, team wide, doping program on the team.

Sastre-rode on Kelme. Manzano told us all about the doping on Kelme. He also road on CSC when they had Checcini as team "Coach".

Ulrich-really? Jef d'Hont said he injected Ulrich with EPO. Ulrich is the guy who said "Whoever still can't put one and one together about what happened in cycling is beyond my help."

The fact is when EPO came in it offer such a huge advantage, 10-15%, that you had to dope to win. The dope used in Lemonds day was used so a rider could race 200 days a year. It was not going to make you climb faster.

 

[galaxy1]

well he did fail that "health check", for example.

 

[blutto]

When you say that "Pantani is generally believed to have been doping" may I ask what "evidence" you have to make such a claim?

...are we to assume that your response here is similar to the earlier assertion that since there is no evidence against LeMond therefore he was clean....so according to this reasoning LeMond is as clean as Patani...Herr Doktor your logic and reason is irrefutable...seems like a slam-dunk from where I`m sitting...yeah, cool I say, I can live with that...or am I missing something here?...

Cheers

blutto