Lemond - Trek lawsuit

[blackcat]

there were claps, or laughter or applause, dare say they were groupies before journalists.

Lemond has lot to admire. But taping Stephanie was not his finest moment. Not grubby like Landis and Geoghagen, but pretty disappointing.

 

[red_flanders]

No matter how knowledgeable we think we are and how much our opinion matters. Having a PR company monitor cycling forums is not a way to swing public opinion. They know we do our own research and make our own decisions. There is very little that they can do to affect any of our opinions. No one here has been changed to a LA/Lemond fan or hater based on this thread. They will go to a main stream media outlet like Lemond did with his interview. That way they can reach the barely knowledgeable fans of the sport and the casual weekend riders and adjust their opinions and buying behaviors.

The bulk of cycling fans were very supportive of Armstrong even a few years ago. To me there has been a sea change in the last few years with all the revelations which have come out about the sport in general, and Armstrong specifically.

The general tone of these forums has completely changed as more and more fans get access to information about Armstrong's behavior and his history are exposed and examined. There is no doubt whatsoever that he watches this, and has seen it. It's also true that casual Armstrong fans who become interested in cycling do find their way into these forums, and they get quite an education. Also, when things like the blood values propagate here for weeks and months after he takes them down off his site, it's gotta stick in his craw.

If I were his PR agency I would certainly have considered spending some time battling the truth on this front. Problem is, whenever people come in spouting the Armstrong party line, there is just so much history and fact that gets brought up now that he ends up looking worse. I would imagine if the sock puppet approach was ever used, it's futility must be obvious.

His antics at the Tour this year VISIBLY turned many posters on many forums. And the converts are always the most vocal of critics.

I would agree that the vast majority of Armstrong fans who do not follow cycling regularly are unaffected. But the tide of opinion among cycling fans is turned against him.

 

[python]

The bulk of cycling fans were very supportive of Armstrong even a few years ago. To me there has been a sea change in the last few years with all the revelations which have come out about the sport in general, and Armstrong specifically.

The general tone of these forums has completely changed as more and more fans get access to information about Armstrong's behavior and his history are exposed and examined. There is no doubt whatsoever that he watches this, and has seen it. It's also true that casual Armstrong fans who become interested in cycling do find their way into these forums, and they get quite an education. Also, when things like the blood values propagate here for weeks and months after he takes them down off his site, it's gotta stick in his craw.

If I were his PR agency I would certainly have considered spending some time battling the truth on this front. Problem is, whenever people come in spouting the Armstrong party line, there is just so much history and fact that gets brought up now that he ends up looking worse. I would imagine if the sock puppet approach was ever used, it's futility must be obvious.

His antics at the Tour this year VISIBLY turned many posters on many forums. And the converts are always the most vocal of critics.

I would agree that the vast majority of Armstrong fans who do not follow cycling regularly are unaffected. But the tide of opinion among cycling fans is turned against him.

+1.
this post has to be pinned up.

if there ever was a case made about the stupidity and self destructive vanity of armstrong's un-retirement, it has just been made...

 

[blackcat]

He may have over a million members on his twits. But he is his own worst enemy, cannot hold his tongue.

"I think 43 (crit) is a very compelling number"

Only takes a few brain cells to parse the StrongArm shtick, and these PR flaks who are sockpuppets, they just get everyone's goat, and then we go harder.

Most would respect Armstrong if he shut up and was humble. But he is not.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The bulk of cycling fans were very supportive of Armstrong even a few years ago. To me there has been a sea change in the last few years with all the revelations which have come out about the sport in general, and Armstrong specifically.

The general tone of these forums has completely changed as more and more fans get access to information about Armstrong's behavior and his history are exposed and examined. There is no doubt whatsoever that he watches this, and has seen it. It's also true that casual Armstrong fans who become interested in cycling do find their way into these forums, and they get quite an education. Also, when things like the blood values propagate here for weeks and months after he takes them down off his site, it's gotta stick in his craw.

If I were his PR agency I would certainly have considered spending some time battling the truth on this front. Problem is, whenever people come in spouting the Armstrong party line, there is just so much history and fact that gets brought up now that he ends up looking worse. I would imagine if the sock puppet approach was ever used, it's futility must be obvious.

His antics at the Tour this year VISIBLY turned many posters on many forums. And the converts are always the most vocal of critics.

I would agree that the vast majority of Armstrong fans who do not follow cycling regularly are unaffected. But the tide of opinion among cycling fans is turned against him.

Excellent post RF!

I believe the last year has been very harmful to LA's image and legacy.

I just watched the Lemond v Armstrongvideo from the inter-bike in Las Vegas and I squirm more at what LA says than what GL says.

When LA announced his return -I thought it was win/win for him. If he won the TdF then he would go down as an all time great, if he didn't it was for cancer, and to show he is clean. All he had to do was congratulate the new winner and show some humility and respect and in the eyes of the public could have had his past misdemeanors forgiven or even forgotten.

 

[Sprocket01]

+1.
this post has to be pinned up.

if there ever was a case made about the stupidity and self destructive vanity of armstrong's un-retirement, it has just been made...

No, coming out of retirement has earned him lots more new fans. Away from internet forums, people really respect what he had done this year. They like the fact he is willing to have a go at his age, knowingly not being the bookies favourite anymore. Look at the cheering crowds in Italy and France, and all the flash mobs that turn out to support him wherever he goes. People understand that he is a living legend and they appreciate this. I contend that Armstrong is more popular now than when he was winning Tours every year, when he was seen as alooth and arrogant.

 

[blackcat]

"Hope Rides Again!" eh Sprog?

 

[Digger]

No, coming out of retirement has earned him lots more new fans. Away from internet forums, people really respect what he had done this year. They like the fact he is willing to have a go at his age, knowingly not being the bookies favourite anymore. Look at the cheering crowds in Italy and France, and all the flash mobs that turn out to support him wherever he goes. People understand that he is a living legend and they appreciate this. I contend that Armstrong is more popular now than when he was winning Tours every year, when he was seen as alooth and arrogant.

lol........

 

[Sprocket01]

All he had to do was congratulate the new winner and show some humility and respect and in the eyes of the public could have had his past misdemeanors forgiven or even forgotten.

But he did do this. You lot said he was crying about it, so you're being disingenious when you say this is all he had to do. Nothing would be good enough for you lot.

That's what the public remember. They didn't follow this twitter nonsense after the ungracious remarks by Contador. They just remember LA trying his best and admitting that he hasn't got the pace of these kids anymore. Good on him, is what they thought.

Sales of LiveStrong gear have gone through the roof!

 

[Sprocket01]

lol........

Wow I spelt aloof wrong. Very funny.

 

[red_flanders]

No, coming out of retirement has earned him lots more new fans. Away from internet forums, people really respect what he had done this year. They like the fact he is willing to have a go at his age, knowingly not being the bookies favourite anymore. Look at the cheering crowds in Italy and France, and all the flash mobs that turn out to support him wherever he goes. People understand that he is a living legend and they appreciate this. I contend that Armstrong is more popular now than when he was winning Tours every year, when he was seen as alooth and arrogant.

I respect that he had a go at this age as well. I also agree that the multitude of fans who line the roads for him are obvious, and among casual fans he may even have more. I already said that.

However, within the world of "cycling fans" not "Armstrong fans" the change has been equally obvious. And as casual fans migrate to becoming fans of the sport (and there are quite a few who do), they get an awakening now that they never got before.

As Maserati says, if he'd have just come out of retirement, given it his best and shut up, he'd have won over the cycling community as well. Caitlin, edited and disappearing blood values, and his arrogant, childish and boorish behavior during the Tour have turned the majority of cycling fans against him.

Just look at this or any other forum. Your voice is a distinct minority. 3 years ago you'd have had a throng of support.

You can't really refute what I'm saying by repeating the parts of it on which we agree.

 

[Sprocket01]

I respect that he had a go at this age as well. I also agree that the multitude of fans who line the roads for him are obvious, and among casual fans he may even have more. I already said that.

However, within the world of "cycling fans" not "Armstrong fans" the change has been equally obvious. And as casual fans migrate to becoming fans of the sport (and there are quite a few who do), they get an awakening now that they never got before.

As Maserati says, if he'd have just come out of retirement, given it his best and shut up, he'd have won over the cycling community as well. Caitlin, edited and disappearing blood values, and his arrogant, childish and boorish behavior during the Tour have turned the majority of cycling fans against him.

Just look at this or any other forum. Your voice is a distinct minority. 3 years ago you'd have had a throng of support.

You can't really refute what I'm saying by repeating the parts of it on which we agree.

You're a tiny group of obsessive people though. Most cycling fans hate your relentless negativity and mean-spiritedness and don't bother coming to the clinic. This is just a bubble for like minded people. You don't represent most cycling fans at all. Just speak to your average regular cyclist out there.

 

[python]

No, coming out of retirement has earned him lots more new fans. Away from internet forums, people really respect what he had done this year. They like the fact he is willing to have a go at his age, knowingly not being the bookies favourite anymore. Look at the cheering crowds in Italy and France, and all the flash mobs that turn out to support him wherever he goes. People understand that he is a living legend and they appreciate this. I contend that Armstrong is more popular now than when he was winning Tours every year, when he was seen as alooth and arrogant.

sprahkah, unlike some i don't think ur stooopid. no..u do show some brain activity but i think ur bloody boring and repetitive. i have a reflex for shutting my browser down the moment you respond. u see i treat u better than tff who ignores u entirely.

 

[Sprocket01]

I mean, we all knew that, didn't we? That's why you don't like me crashing the party.

 

[Race Radio]

Excellent post RF!

I believe the last year has been very harmful to LA's image and legacy.

I just watched the Lemond v Armstrongvideo from the inter-bike in Las Vegas and I squirm more at what LA says than what GL says.

When LA announced his return -I thought it was win/win for him. If he won the TdF then he would go down as an all time great, if he didn't it was for cancer, and to show he is clean. All he had to do was congratulate the new winner and show some humility and respect and in the eyes of the public could have had his past misdemeanors forgiven or even forgotten.

Here is the corrected link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH650Br8uI

Armstrong certainly comes across as nervous and paranoid.

The comeback has only been bad for Armstrong. The world was able to see what a fraud he is. It is funny when he tried to grab the mic from Catlin.

-The heavily promoted Catlin testing program was nothing more then smoke and mirrors, only enhancing Armstrong's reputation as a doper.
-The claim that he was not doing this for a salary, then taking over $3,000,000 in race frees only served to enhance his reputation for misrepresentation.
-Telling everyone it was about "Cancer Awareness", then boycotting the media for months at a time.
-Promising to post his bio numbers. When his results are questioned he first changes them to make them less questionable, then takes them down all together.
-The season long swipes at Contador only served to let many new fans know what others had known for years, that Armstrong behaves like a petulant child when he does not get his way.

We can all agree that the comeback has been disastrous for Armstrong and his legacy. Surely rational people come to this conclusion.

 

[Sprocket01]

Here is the corrected link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH650Br8uI

Armstrong certainly comes across as nervous and paranoid.

The comeback has only been bad for Armstrong. The world was able to see what a fraud he is. It is funny when he tried to grab the mic from Catlin.

-The heavily promoted Catlin testing program was nothing more then smoke and mirrors, only enhancing Armstrong's reputation as a doper.
-The claim that he was not doing this for a salary, then taking over $3,000,000 in race frees only served to enhance his reputation for misrepresentation.
-Telling everyone it was about "Cancer Awareness", then boycotting the media for months at a time.
-Promising to post his bio numbers. When his results are questioned he first changes them to make them less questionable, then takes them down all together.
-The season long swipes at Contador only served to let many new fans know what others had known for years, that Armstrong behaves like a petulant child when he does not get his way.

We can all agree that the comeback has been disastrous for Armstrong and his legacy. Surely rational people come to this conclusion.

This actually shows why your different from most people. Most people, even those that aren't great Armstrong fans, didn't think it was the time or place for LeMond to do that - it was Armstrong's comeback press conference announcment - and it made LeMond, rather than Armstrong, look bad. Yet here you are saying it was a great victory for LeMond.

This is why I say the clinic is a bubble.

 

[Polish]

No, coming out of retirement has earned him lots more new fans. Away from internet forums, people really respect what he had done this year. They like the fact he is willing to have a go at his age, knowingly not being the bookies favourite anymore. Look at the cheering crowds in Italy and France, and all the flash mobs that turn out to support him wherever he goes. People understand that he is a living legend and they appreciate this. I contend that Armstrong is more popular now than when he was winning Tours every year, when he was seen as alooth and arrogant.

Hear Hear! And not just cheering cycling fans in France and Italy - but Australia and California as well!

I know you have stated in previous posts that Lance has been distracted by the Global Cancer Initiative - but c'mon, give him a break

I cannot think of any other Top Athlete whose comeback has been as successful as Lance's.

Although I must add he is a turd

 

[Race Radio]

One of the better features of this forum is the ignore list.

Just click here and enter in the username of a poster who adds nothing to the forum.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

The good thing is instead of another rambling, nonsensical post you get this simple message.

Sprocket01
This message is hidden because Sprocket01 is on your ignore list.

Starving the troll is the best way to deal with it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This actually......

Again - get your facts correct Sproket01.
LA had made his announcement to come back on a video posted on his .com site - he then had a press conference giving some details at the Clinton Global Initiative annual meeting .

The Las Vegas press conference was to give the details of his anti-doping strategy - which is why Don Catlin was there.

 

[red_flanders]

You're a tiny group of obsessive people though. Most cycling fans hate your relentless negativity and mean-spiritedness and don't bother coming to the clinic. This is just a bubble for like minded people. You don't represent most cycling fans at all. Just speak to your average regular cyclist out there.

I do, all the time. Amongst the racers with whom I ride there are exactly zero people who are supportive of Armstrong. None. That's a dramatic change from 3 years ago.

With the cyclo-tourist group I do trips with, there is one guy left clinging to the fantasy, and he has changed his tune this year.

You want obsessive? Look at your post count.

Look, there's nothing really here to argue about. The tide has turned within cycling. You can't stop it, and frankly when I think of people who do the most to turn the tide, I think of people like you. Your continual stream of unsupported, uninformed, fact-less, and diversionary comments do more to expose the myth than anything, because they are so easy to refute with the droves of evidence at hand.

I thank you for your contribution to the truth. Honestly.

 

[Sprocket01]

Again - get your facts correct Sproket01.
LA had made his announcement to come back on a video posted on his .com site - he then had a press conference giving some details at the Clinton Global Initiative annual meeting .

The Las Vegas press conference was to give the details of his anti-doping strategy - which is why Don Catlin was there.

Yes everyone knew he was coming back, but this was the official press conference annoucement so he could be questioned about his reasons for doing so. I remember it well. He started the press conference joking that he had changed his mind to comeback. LeMond's subsequent behaviour disrespected the fans.

 

[Sprocket01]

red_flanders,

you're one of the biggest haters of Armstrong in this forum, so forgive me if I don't trust your judgment. I've seen more people wearing livestrong gear this year than ever before. Armstrong has a whole new level of fans.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

.... I remember it well. .

Your memory isn't too good unfortunately.

Wednesday 24th September: Clinton Global Initiative.
Lance Armstrong officially heralded his return to cycling with the Astana team on Wednesday during the Clinton Global Initiative Annual Meeting in New York City. Armstrong reiterated that he is coming back to the sport to help further his foundation's Global Cancer Initiative.

Thursday 25th September: Las Vegas Inter-bike.
A day after officially announcing his comeback to professional cycling, Lance Armstrong made an appearance at the Interbike trade show to give the cycling media and industry an opportunity to hear more details of his plans, including the special testing by Don Catlin of the UCLA anti-doping lab. Catlin joined him on stage

 

[Sprocket01]

It was but one of his comeback press conferences. So what? For an event so big he is allowed to have more than one. This one was really for the cycling press and fans.

 

[Anonymous]

red_flanders,

you're one of the biggest haters of Armstrong in this forum, so forgive me if I don't trust your judgment. I've seen more people wearing livestrong gear this year than ever before. Armstrong has a whole new level of fans.

Question for you Crocket. Where is Tubbs?