Lemond - Trek lawsuit

[Sprocket01]

Oh my good friend Sprocket, you have said a lot of, shall we say, outlandish things on this forum but this quote of yours without a doubt takes the cake.

Pssst, it's true.

I may seem like a nutter in the otherworldly world of the clinic, but remember outside of here it's the other way around.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

(never had a sock puppet)

Then what is the correct phrase for having 5 different usernames on the same forum???

Doping has been around since the start of the sport - but took on bigger gains with the introduction of EPO in the early 90's- Dr. Ferrari as a hematologist was an expert at understanding the effects of these doping products on athletes.

 

[BikeCentric]

Pssst, it's true.

I may seem like a nutter in the otherworldly world of the clinic, but remember outside of here it's the other way around.

Absolutely bro! I highly recommend that you go show up to basically any bike race, amateur or pro, and start spouting off to the people there about how respected and skilled as a coach Dr. Ferrari is. You're likely to physically get your *** kicked.

 

[Sprocket01]

Then what is the correct phrase for having 5 different usernames on the same forum???

Not at the same time. We've been through this. You bring it up to smear me, of course.

You call it "guy unfairly banned a few times due to campaign of harrassment, asked to change account to name without BPC"

Yes I've always know all about doping. I meant I wasn't into the 'he said, she said' side of it.

 

[Sprocket01]

absolutely bro! I highly recommend that you go show up to basically any bike race, amateur or pro, and start spouting off to the people there about how respected and skilled as a coach dr. Ferrari is. You're likely to physically get your *** kicked.

LMAO!!! :d

 

[Kennf1]

After the later case blew up he became known as this, but he was still widely respected in the sport at that stage. And indeed even today he known for his legendary coaching and number crunching - nobody would deny this. Not just a "doping doctor".

No, that is incorrect. Every pro rider at the time knew about Ferrari's methods. He was the doctor for Gewiss for crying out loud. In 1999, Ferrari admitted he used blood transfusions (legal in 1984) to help Moser break the hour record.

 

[Sprocket01]

No, that is incorrect. Every pro rider at the time knew about Ferrari's methods. He was the doctor for Gewiss for crying out loud. In 1999, Ferrari admitted he used blood transfusions (legal in 1984) to help Moser break the hour record.

I meant outside of the sport.

But that was accepted. The line between science and doping was not clear at the time of the hour record.

 

[Sprocket01]

The other side of the story....

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=programs.aboutMF

Balanced interview showing both sides of his work....

http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/article/0,6802,s-3-12-13773-1-P,00.html

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Keep in mind that Ferrari isn't the only doping specialist around. He learned alongside Luigi Cecchini from the doctor widely known to be the man who introduced EPO, and how to mask and defeat doping tests, to sports, Francesco Conconi, who was the main physician helping Moser.

All of these three have a solid reputation related almost exclusively to doping in sports.

There are plenty more than these three, of course.

Blood doping was widely suspected to be used in the 1972 Olympics, it's efficiency very well known. Recommend reading Faust's Gold.

 

[Kennf1]

I meant outside of the sport.

But that was accepted. The line between science and doping was not clear at the time of the hour record.

Outside the sport, you mean people who don't follow cycling at all? Well, yeah, it's probably true they didn't know who Ferrari was. Excellent point.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I meant outside of the sport.
.

Outside the sport???
Do Trek make snowmobiles or tractors??? They make bikes!

 

[Kennf1]

Back to the Lemond case, I believe the summary judgment hearing is still scheduled for tomorrow? It'll be interesting to read the order, whenever it comes out---hopefully not too many weeks from now, but you never know.

 

[peloton]

Not really related to this case, but I remember reading an email LA had sent to someone, probably to the doc Ferrari himself or JB, writing something like "I'm going like Schumi/Ferrari".

I have no links, anyone else saw/remember this?

 

[HoustonHammer]

It appears you did not read my post, or the Trek complaint.

Lemond's statements about Armstrong were very limited, until Trek and Armstrong tired to sink him. For a long time after Burke and Lance threatened to sink Greg he remained silent. It was only after it became clear that Trek was out to sink him that he became vocal.

There is this concerted effort to paint Greg as a nut job, so far nobody has posted anything that he has said that supports this claim.

True. An effort led by Greg himself.

Remember him crashing Lance's press conference last year? I don't have any mental health training, but I'm pretty sure that creepy stalking behavior would be categorized in the 'nut job' column of a psych evaluation.

 

[Race Radio]

True. An effort led by Greg himself.

Remember him crashing Lance's press conference last year? I don't have any mental health training, but I'm pretty sure that creepy stalking behavior would be categorized in the 'nut job' column of a psych evaluation.

He did not crash the press conference. Prior to the press conference Lemond asked Armstrong's press people if it was ok if he attended and asked some questions. Armstrong was prepared for the questions. If you watched the video of the day it was Armstrong who went confrontational, not Greg.

While Greg may not be the most polished public speaker the content of his questions were very topical. Both Garmin and Columbia have made power output an important part of their internal testing program for the last 2-3 seasons. Greg asked if Catlin would be doing the same. While some might not have understood the relevance of his questions those who closely follow the sport know he was spot on.

Perhaps the most absurd part of that press conference was that Greg asked legit questions while Armstrong talked about "Any time, anywhere" testing. Armstrong turns out to be lying again as the Catlin program never happened.......and Greg is portrayed as the weirdo?

 

[Ferminal]

Then what is the correct phrase for having 5 different usernames on the same forum???

Multiple accounts created to circumvent a ban.

A sock puppet implies that you are playing one and another off in an attempt to increase the legitimacy of the main account's argument. Arbiter is not guilty of that.

 

[ChrisE]

You are right - I wasn't talking at you.
BTW- it wasnt a "cancer awareness" meeting - it was the interbike show in Las Vegas.

I've read 18 pages of this thread so far, and this post for some reason has garnered the biggest laugh from me.

Interbike = cancer awareness. Classic.

 

[ChrisE]

I believe under one of your other sockpuppets you said that you only started following the sport in the last few years.
So you do not know what impact Dr. Ferraris statements about EPO had - why do you think Gewiss stopped working with him immediatley?

It was common knowledge in 1994.

I always wondered why CN used him as some type of commentator for some time. Seems to back up Sprocket's version of his standing in cycling after the shytstorm than the opposite.

 

[ChrisE]

Yes he won the Pacific Grove Criterium senior 1 in the 70s. He was a junior and was using gears above the limit for juniors. He was dqed. I do not know if gear limitations for juniors are still in effect.

I also heard a nasty rumor about Greg which I shall not repeat as I can not substantiate and do not want to start problems.

The answer is Greg was an awesome rider, as a junior he was so smoking good I knew he was going to Europe to win the tour worlds etc.

Sad thing is he and Lance have a lot in common and I hate to see the snarling backbiting,so sad. When I see him attack Lance and Contador it makes me cry. The princess soap opera with Flandis was straight up Tanya Harding.

You guys are always on Sprocket. This guy here seems to float in and out of consciousness. It's like he woke up and started typing what he was dreaming about at the time.

 

[Race Radio]

I always wondered why CN used him as some type of commentator for some time. Seems to back up Sprocket's version of his standing in cycling after the shytstorm than the opposite.

It was an PR effort to rehabilitate Ferrari's image. He was known only as a doping doctor and wanted to be known as a coach. Ferrari also launched 53x12 with Jorgi Muller, USPS Media Manager, in a effort to clean up his image.

The effort went dead when he was convicted. Now that he is banned from coaching riders in Italy you hear little of him.

 

[ChrisE]

It was an PR effort to rehabilitate Ferrari's image. He was known only as a doping doctor and wanted to be known as a coach. Ferrari also launched 53x12 with Jorgi Muller, USPS Media Manager, in a effort to clean up his image.

The effort went dead when he was convicted. Now that he is banned from coaching riders in Italy you hear little of him.

Yes, but the argument earlier in the thread was Ferrari's reputation in 2001.

A PR effort? CN, who should be "in the know", is at the mercy of Ferrari's PR efforts when it comes to hiring commentators?

Edit: by shytstorm above I mean after the GL comment in 2001.

 

[HoustonHammer]

He did not crash the press conference. Prior to the press conference Lemond asked Armstrong's press people if it was ok if he attended and asked some questions. Armstrong was prepared for the questions. If you watched the video of the day it was Armstrong who went confrontational, not Greg.

While Greg may not be the most polished public speaker the content of his questions were very topical. Both Garmin and Columbia have made power output an important part of their internal testing program for the last 2-3 seasons. Greg asked if Catlin would be doing the same. While some might not have understood the relevance of his questions those who closely follow the sport know he was spot on.

Perhaps the most absurd part of that press conference was that Greg asked legit questions while Armstrong talked about "Any time, anywhere" testing. Armstrong turns out to be lying again as the Catlin program never happened.......and Greg is portrayed as the weirdo?

OK. Creepy stalker asks if it's OK to attend your press conference. You tell him to stay away, it's a story. He attends and gets all creepy, it's a story. Team Pharmstrong is looking at taking a big bite of that sh*t sandwich either way, so let's not pretend that it was any less of a crash because they didn't object to it.

Lance is a doper. I'm not arguing that. But his behavior is conventional. He aims to control everything and bend the rules in his own favor to gain power and fortune. That might be evil, but people can at least understand it.

Greg's behavior on the other hand, is not conventional. What did he hope to gain in turning up at his arch-enemy's event? Is he really striking a blow for the anti-doping movement? Or is he just taking a free shot at a guy he thinks stole his crown? I don't think it matters, because whatever was motivating him, it didn't work. You don't have to be a Lance-lover to see Greg's approach as obsessive and a little pathetic. You know, like the approach of a nut job.

 

[53 x 11]

Multiple accounts created to circumvent a ban.

A sock puppet implies that you are playing one and another off in an attempt to increase the legitimacy of the main account's argument. Arbiter is not guilty of that.

This has happened a few times, the voices sometimes talk to each other.

 

[Aapjes]

Greg's behavior on the other hand, is not conventional.

Just because something is unconventional, doesn't mean that is is creepy. In the US, cycling is unconventional. In the old pro racing scene, not using doping was unconventional.

What did he hope to gain in turning up at his arch-enemy's event?

- Showing that Lance's testing program was not going to be effective.
- Forcing Lance to answer tough questions or to clearly evade them.
- Giving an alternative to the old, broken testing system (UCI clearly feels the same way, leading to the blood passport).
- Increasing the number of people questioning the old system/riders.

Obviously it is difficult to assess Lemond's contribution to the much stricter anti-doping stance of today, but I think that it was significant. This appearance was just one event in a long line. It may not have been hugely significant by itself, but the aggregate is important.

You don't have to be a Lance-lover to see Greg's approach as obsessive and a little pathetic. You know, like the approach of a nut job.

Ghandi, Mandela and Lech Walesa were all obsessive and unconventional. Plenty of people laughed them off as nut jobs and considered them pathetic. Yet they made history. You are not going to achieve anything big when not giving your all. I'd rather see an obsessive nut working for good than an apathetic ex-everything who spends the rest of his life with a fake smile on his face, ignoring everything that is wrong, for money, coke and hookers.

 

[HoustonHammer]

Ghandi, Mandela and Lech Walesa were all obsessive and unconventional. Plenty of people laughed them off as nut jobs and considered them pathetic. Yet they made history. You are not going to achieve anything big when not giving your all. I'd rather see an obsessive nut working for good than an apathetic ex-everything who spends the rest of his life with a fake smile on his face, ignoring everything that is wrong, for money, coke and hookers.

Me too. The problem is that it isn't clear that Greg fits into this category. Is he anti-doping or anti-Lance? The feeling that a lot of people get watching him is that he's an obsessive nut working for his own good. It looks a lot more like a personal vendetta than anything with broader implications.