Lemond - Trek lawsuit

[Anonymous]

If Greg thinks he can win, I doubt he will take a settlement. I don't think this is about money to him.

The problem is that any legal proceeding is sketchy enough, regardless of the amount and character of the evidence you believe you poses, to warrant looking at a settlement. The only way he wouldn't is if his primary motive is to expose Armstrong's doping. If this is truly about his business and how it was handled by Trek, then settlement will be the likely outcome. In my opinion, civil trials like this are a poor place to try to expose someone unless your attic is SQUEAKY CLEAN.

While I would like to see Armstrong's lies exposed, if I were Greg's attorney, I would try to convince him to settle. The biggest ***/liar in the world can win a case if he has enough money to hire a crack legal team. I think it is clear that Armstrong possesses just such a team. Sucks, but that is life. Civil litigation is a tricky thing, and you can get burned no matter how "right" you are.

 

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, most of that linked article is filled with nonsense, made-up by the author.

This thread has now hit 50 pages, nearly 500 posts, and over 12,000 views!

It would be half as long or less if you guys were able to get rid of the troll.

 

[ggusta]

It would be half as long or less if you guys were able to get rid of the troll.

There have been lots of really pointless back and forth on this thread, none by me mind you, I have been my usual brilliant self, but some of my com-padres have to raise their game.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Wasn't complaining, just astounded. Compare this to some of the other mammoth threads on here, say, the Kloden-Frieberg report thread, and it has less views, and got started six months ago. This thread has gotten this big in three days!

As this probably isn't about money to Greg, I don't know how easily he'll settle. Then again, it depends on just what ends up in the settlement, and how big of check they cut him. One never knows.

 

[blackcat]

but will it get traction. Can the MSM run with it. I don't think they want to. They built Armstrong up, I cannot see Nike thowing him out, I cannot see the NYTimes really potting him. I cannot see ESPN really running with this night after night, like Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens. Armstrong can beat this in the media, a court finding will not do anything to markedly hurt his brand.

Armstrong does not sell to cycling. He sells to the MSM. Cycling is a curious and quaint hobby or pastime. Armstrong is happy for it to be that, and to co-opt cancer as his brand. That is his narrative, Armstrong sells cancer.

 

[Hugh Januss]

but will it get traction. Can the MSM run with it. I don't think they want to. They built Armstrong up, I cannot see Nike thowing him out, I cannot see the NYTimes really potting him. I cannot see ESPN really running with this night after night, like Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens. Armstrong can beat this in the media, a court finding will not do anything to markedly hurt his brand.

Armstrong does not sell to cycling. He sells to the MSM. Cycling is a curious and quaint hobby or pastime. Armstrong is happy for it to be that, and to co-opt cancer as his brand. That is his narrative, Armstrong sells cancer.

Armstrong, Livestrong, and all the associated brands command so much advertising dollars that they can pretty well mute the media, as they have been doing already.

 

[guilder]

Anything? Okay, I'll start.
..

1. EPO use became rampant in the '90s.
2. Michele Ferrari was a notorious doping doctor.
3. Lance Armstrong threatened me to retract my statements about him and Ferrari.
4. Doping remains a problem in the sport.

Who hasn't said #1, 2, 4?.

GL makes defamatory and self-serving allegations. Is allegedly warned of possible consequences of making those allegations. Proceeds to make more allegations as in #3.


..

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Who hasn't said #1, 2, 4?.

..

Lance Armstrong?

 

[guilder]

As this probably isn't about money to Greg, I don't know how easily he'll settle. Then again, it depends on just what ends up in the settlement, and how big of check they cut him. One never knows.

His wife chimed in on how well the hearing went.
It's about money.
For sure nothing will get settled unless GL signs a hush agreement. He'll sign.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

But what if they're true, Guilder? Isn't that half of what this trial is about?

but will it get traction. Can the MSM run with it. I don't think they want to. They built Armstrong up, I cannot see Nike thowing him out, I cannot see the NYTimes really potting him. I cannot see ESPN really running with ...

Not at first, but the NYT, and other newspapers here and there do still have some crack investigative journalists who do get read. Someone with the cohones, and wherewithal to truly investigate this, and get it right, could really shed light on it and bring it much further into the mainstream.

 

[ggusta]

but will it get traction. Can the MSM run with it. I don't think they want to. They built Armstrong up, I cannot see Nike thowing him out, I cannot see the NYTimes really potting him. I cannot see ESPN really running with this night after night, like Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens. Armstrong can beat this in the media, a court finding will not do anything to markedly hurt his brand.

Armstrong does not sell to cycling. He sells to the MSM. Cycling is a curious and quaint hobby or pastime. Armstrong is happy for it to be that, and to co-opt cancer as his brand. That is his narrative, Armstrong sells cancer.

I think I said most of this earlier, but that is beside the point.

Only thing I will add is that he doesn't sell cancer, he sells caring to other narcissists like himself who need to feel like they are unselfish and caring by wearing his stuff like some sort of badge of self importance.

It's good business, people must feel very guilty.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But what if they're true, Guilder? Isn't that half of what this trial is about?



Not at first, but the NYT, and other newspapers here and there do still have some crack investigative journalists who do get read. Someone with the cohones, and wherewithal to truly investigate this, and get it right, could really shed light on it and bring it much further into the mainstream.

I think this case could get decided in the 'court of public opinion' in the MSM than in the courts.

The Daily News are the one's reporting on this - as far as I can see they are a big name paper of repute in the US. So it may only be a matter of time before the other MSM papers report this.
The tide could turn quickly - from a media who hailed LA as a hero to apathy or even resentment.

 

[eigenvalu2]

Lance Armstrong?

beautiful counter punch

 

[ggusta]

I think this case could get decided in the 'court of public opinion' in the MSM than in the courts.

The Daily News are the one's reporting on this - as far as I can see they are a big name paper of repute in the US. So it may only be a matter of time before the other MSM papers report this.
The tide could turn quickly - from a media who hailed LA as a hero to apathy or even resentment.

I have very little doubt there will be coverage in the media, and some will be unfriendly to LA's spin machine, but it is not going to be the debacle for Lance like it was for Clemens under any circumstances.

Some small impact, maybe even moderately negative. But that is the worst case scenario from lance's point of view. It's all too remote for most people to really dig into. This isn't the Clemens case at all.

I HATE to bring up politics, but my point is, when the media REALLY wants to build someone up, they can really 'flood the zone' as the former managing editor of the New York Times called it when they wanted to push their agenda in a big way. They can tear people down: Bush, Palin. Or turn them into demi-gods: Obama. In this story, people will be asked to change their minds after years of Lance the Hero, now he is the villain? That won't fly!

this is not a story that will flood the zone in either direction positive or negative. The passion aroused by Lance is not two sided in the overall culture. It's one sided: positive, and the media has little motivation to change that. Lemond is a virtual non-entity. That would mean even more work by the media, which is lazy, just to bring the average person up to speed on who he is and why they should care. This story is not in their wheelhouse at all. Sorry!

Just to summarize: Some coverage which will be truthful and unbiased and will contradict the dominant paradigm, but don't expect a big change in how LA is perceived. Media likes it when they can paint the villain as all black and the hero as all white and the public already knows who is who. This doesn't fit. Too much thought needed.

 

[scribe]

I think this case could get decided in the 'court of public opinion' in the MSM than in the courts.

The Daily News are the one's reporting on this - as far as I can see they are a big name paper of repute in the US. So it may only be a matter of time before the other MSM papers report this.
The tide could turn quickly - from a media who hailed LA as a hero to apathy or even resentment.

The Daily News is a local paper here in the metropolitan area. It is no NYT and caters mostly to working class readers in the NYC and Long Island.

 

[Polish]

Taped Phone Call

I do not know if the Clinic will ever get to read the transcript of the
"taped phone call" between Greg, Betsy, and the lawyer
that is mentioned in the Daily News article.

Seems it will only be released during the trial if it comes to that.

TREK Lawyer: Tape shows Greg "in the business of attempting to
extort concessions or money from Trek."

GREG Lawyer: not "worried about the tape, but Trek clearly thinks of it as ammunition.

TREK Lawyer :"We won't characterize in any fashion or comment on it until trial,"
"We think it's very illuminating."



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...awsuit_against_trek.html?page=4#ixzz0WgQIstRO

 

[scribe]

Armstrong, Livestrong, and all the associated brands command so much advertising dollars that they can pretty well mute the media, as they have been doing already.

A hard story, speculating on whether or not Lance is a cheater, fraud, and menace would not go over well with readers in the US. He can be all those things and people wouldn't feel like reading the stuff, with most being flat out turned off by the publication.

Barak Obama's turds stink, but no one wants to read about it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have very little doubt there will be coverage in the media, and some will be unfriendly to LA's spin machine, but it is not going to be the debacle for Lance like it was for Clemens under any circumstances.

Some small impact, maybe even moderately negative. But that is the worst case scenario from lance's point of view. It's all too remote for most people to really dig into. This isn't the Clemens case at all.

I HATE to bring up politics, but my point is, when the media REALLY wants to build someone up, they can really 'flood the zone' as the former managing editor of the New York Times called it when they wanted to push their agenda in a big way. They can tear people down: Bush, Palin. Or turn them into demi-gods: Obama. In this story, people will be asked to change their minds after years of Lance the Hero, now he is the villain? That won't fly!

this is not a story that will flood the zone in either direction positive or negative. The passion aroused by Lance is not two sided in the overall culture. It's one sided: positive, and the media has little motivation to change that. Lemond is a virtual non-entity. That would mean even more work by the media, which is lazy, just to bring the average person up to speed on who he is and why they should care. This story is not in their wheelhouse at all. Sorry!

Just to summarize: Some coverage which will be truthful and unbiased and will contradict the dominant paradigm, but don't expect a big change in how LA is perceived. Media likes it when they can paint the villain as all black and the hero as all white and the public already knows who is who. This doesn't fit. Too much thought needed.

I agree with your overall assessment - I don't think the NY Times or WSJ are going to go get their finest investigative journalists on the case.

Of course a lot of this is dependent on if the case goes to trial, then the MSM cannot ignore the story.

However even if it does not go to trial the 'status' that LA has enjoyed could be diminished with the MSM reluctant to throw in support or to write flattering articles - as I said I don't expect him to be pursued by the press, but his achievements and legacy may be met with apathy.

 

[krebs303]

Barak Obama's turds stink, but no one wants to read about it.

Do you have link for that?

 

[scribe]

Do you have link for that?

obamasturdsstink.com

 

[ggusta]

I agree with your overall assessment - I don't think the NY Times or WSJ are going to go get their finest investigative journalists on the case.

Of course a lot of this is dependent on if the case goes to trial, then the MSM cannot ignore the story.

However even if it does not go to trial the 'status' that LA has enjoyed could be diminished with the MSM reluctant to throw in support or to write flattering articles - as I said I don't expect him to be pursued by the press, but his achievements and legacy may be met with apathy.

Dude, a guy who just murdered 13 people had deep ties to Islamic terrorism and the media is doing everything to ignore that fact. He is being sold to us as just a nut. Don't try and estimate what they are capable of ignoring.

 

[British Pro Cycling]

The thing is, the 2005 issue received big coverage across the mainstream media in the US, and LA even had to go onto Larry King to defend himself, plus most people, who don't follow cycling, will not have heard about the decision to rule out the samples months later. Yet this all didn't really do that much to damage LA.

I think cycling is different in that the public can't conceive of the distances they do, how they are able to cycle every day for three weeks, and how on earth they are able to go up these huge mountains all the time, so they are a bit more relaxed about the doping allegations. Especially if they think it was in an era where everybody was topping up and LA was up against crazy Europeans.

So no, I don't think this case will effect much. As far as LA and doping, I thnk the American media feel they have already "done" that.

 

[scribe]

Dude, a guy who just murdered 13 people had deep ties to Islamic terrorism and the media is doing everything to ignore that fact. He is being sold to us as just a nut. Don't try and estimate what they are capable of ignoring.

Wouldn't that just make him a 'nut'? Frankly, America has lots of nuts of their own regularly congregating in the name of religious rapture. Maybe people are just tired of psychos being labeled as anything other than what they are.

 

[Polish]

apathy

I agree with your overall assessment - I don't think the NY Times or WSJ are going to go get their finest investigative journalists on the case.

Of course a lot of this is dependent on if the case goes to trial, then the MSM cannot ignore the story.

However even if it does not go to trial the 'status' that LA has enjoyed could be diminished with the MSM reluctant to throw in support or to write flattering articles - as I said I don't expect him to be pursued by the press, but his achievements and legacy may be met with apathy.

Dr M, the facts about Lance's doping have been public knowledge for YEARS now. LeMond does not have any NEW dirt does he? Most people really just don't care, and his OnTheBike achievements and legacy are already met with apathy by most sports fans. Is bicycling even a sport to many sport fans?

And his OffTheBike achievements and legacy have already eclipsed his OnTheBike achievements and legacy anyway. And I sure bet Lance has a beautifully crafted Mea Culpa that will deal with the doping, and he will read it someday to his OffTheBike fans and they WILL forgive him.

 

[British Pro Cycling]

Or angry crowds could gather outside LiveStrong HQ.