LeMond: Ullrich is the best rider of his generation, he would have won every Tour

[Bavarianrider]

OK.
I thought that it was really the 2001 that the new testing came into effect. In 2000 the test was still on the initial stages of implementation and still offered a big window for wrong interpretation.

Wasn't in Suisse 2001 that Armstrong got caught using EPO? which pretty much proves that almost everyone was still on EPO during 2000.

Why does a positive Armstrong test prove that everyone was on epo

 

[Escarabajo]

Why does a positive Armstrong test prove that everyone was on epo

I take that back. It doesn't. But now we know that Ferrari was ahead of his game with the testers. So if Lance was using EPO back in 2001 and the tests were still in the early stages of being implemented I can draw my own conclusions. And they are they many riders were still on EPO. And that's my opinion.

 

[Escarabajo]

People love to speculate a lot and create conspiracy theories for everything but after you review the facts years after when it happened things look different. Riders were still using EPO years after the test was implemented. Whether micro dosing or just risking a positive test. Whatever. I would not be surprise if many riders were still on EPO in 2000. Look, not many riders had the money to pay top dollars for those expensive programs. And there are still stories of how to circumvent the tests when using EPO. Dilution, chemical powders, etc. Sometimes we overthink the situations.

I agree that after 2002 things changed. But I am not convinced that the riders mentality changed in 2000.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I take that back. It doesn't. But now we know that Ferrari was ahead of his game with the testers. So if Lance was using EPO back in 2001 and the tests were still in the early stages of being implemented I can draw my own conclusions. And they are they many riders were still on EPO. And that's my opinion.

Of course, no doubt.

But the levels surely weren't the same as before 2000 and from 2002 onwards when blood bags really become popular.

 

[zigmeister]

After watching LeMond as the Eurosport cycling ambassador who was doing supposed commentary and provide insight into the classic races, he looked like a fish out of water, not bright, poorly inarticulate and so forth.

High V02 Max...not so high IQ.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I think Lemond is attacked to harsh. If everybody asks you about your opinion (even on things you are no expert of), sometimes you say things in the heat of the moment. But by and large, he is more often right than wrong. We shall not take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

About Jan. What do you think RR? Was Telekom (including him) not transfusing in 2000/01? And what about his 9 mins margin against other über dopers like Virenque? Wouldn´t you think (deep inside) he´d still have beat those guys on a clean level?
Whoever talks/talked of him (ok, outside of Bölts ), spoke in awe (Hinault, Lemond, D´Honst, Hamilton). Who would really have beat him? Bassons? Maybe in the mountains, but would that have been enough if he had to make up big time losses from ITTs. Some unknown colombians?
We have been trou his non junior results. So who had the junior results? Who thus should have been the true dominator back then?...

I mean he was under depression some two years ago, hobby biked off the sofa a ITT, and still beat just retired Garzelli by 2 mins (AFAIR. Maybe Bavarianrider has the exact numbers). I mean if we count all pros and cons, I think it´s safe to say he was some special talent. Or not?

 

[Benotti69]

After watching LeMond as the Eurosport cycling ambassador who was doing supposed commentary and provide insight into the classic races, he looked like a fish out of water, not bright, poorly inarticulate and so forth.

High V02 Max...not so high IQ.

If i remember correctly, LeMond was a bike racer and not to bad at it either and not a professional TV presenter.

Anything that is not P&P is fine by me.

 

[86TDFWinner]

If i remember correctly, LeMond was a bike racer and not to bad at it either and not a professional TV presenter.

Anything that is not P&P is fine by me.

Agreed! I don't "get" the LeMond hate either, guys hilarious and knows what he's talking about. Any time he can poke fun @ Wonderboy, I'm all for it.

 

[TANK91]

I see Greg Lemond's girlfriend is back. You no when Lemond has attacked 1 man allhis carear then comes out with this doper would have won all the Tours he is just so bitter and is a hypocrite.

 

[Neworld]

I see Greg Lemond's girlfriend is back. You no when Lemond has attacked 1 man allhis carear then comes out with this doper would have won all the Tours he is just so bitter and is a hypocrite.

Can't disagree that GL should be careful who he compliments without significant caveats.

But, in life, it sure is easier to forgive reasonable people, rather that total d1ckheads...a lesson that LA will never learn.

 

[Big Doopie]

Greg is very open about having ADD. Anyone knows this might affect the fluidity of his thought patterns when talking.

Fantastic racer. But he has been so much more after. Voice in the wilderness for clean sport, advocate for 1 in 6 a terrific organization with regard sexual abuse, laughs about himself (and his ADD). It's probably why Gila Armstrong so underestimated him. He couldn't fathom how a person could be so nice...and yet such an absolutely fearless competitor.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I see Greg Lemond's girlfriend is back. You no when Lemond has attacked 1 man allhis carear then comes out with this doper would have won all the Tours he is just so bitter and is a hypocrite.

Hey there! Must really chap your **** that your man crush Wonderboy has been exposed as a lying, POT, fraud, admitted doper and Greg is STILL the only American to ever win the TDF. I didn't know Greg had a girlfriend, do you know something we don't? Please post your info where Greg has a new gf and has divorced Kathy?

And it's "know"......do you not "know"(see what I did there?) the difference between "know" and "no"? Apparently not.

 

[Benotti69]

I see Greg Lemond's girlfriend is back.

oh so eloquent makes the rest worth reading

You no when Lemond has attacked 1 man allhis carear

LeMond retired when Armstrong was starting. So GLs career was behind him before Armstrong became anything.

then comes out with this doper would have won all the Tours he is just so bitter and is a hypocrite.

I would be bitter too. Dont see the hypocrisy.

 

[kingjr]

What some might call hipocrisy is that he apparently has zero problems sitting happily next to Indurain on the Champs-Elysées last year. Apparently Indu was clean.

 

[ultimobici]

What some might call hipocrisy is that he apparently has zero problems sitting happily next to Indurain on the Champs-Elysées last year. Apparently Indu was clean.

Lemond has always been consistent in his attitude. He wasn't anti Armstrong until 2001. Hi comments that year were seized upon by Armstrong and the whole "war" began. Lemond only went on the offensive, for want of a better term, after being repeatedly attacked by Armstrong and his cronies. None of the other riders, Indurain, Riis & Ullrich have attacked him hence his lack of rancour toward them.

 

[kingjr]

Lemond has always been consistent in his attitude. He wasn't anti Armstrong until 2001. Hi comments that year were seized upon by Armstrong and the whole "war" began. Lemond only went on the offensive, for want of a better term, after being repeatedly attacked by Armstrong and his cronies. None of the other riders, Indurain, Riis & Ullrich have attacked him hence his lack of rancour toward them.

I understand that completely. But that's why I think LeMond is fighting Armstrong, and not Doping.
The rise of the EPO-generation probably made it impossible for him to finish his (TdF-) career the way he wanted to.

 

[ultimobici]

I disagree. Lemond has consistently opposed doping but I think he feels no need to boil it down to a attacking personalities rather propose methods to combat it. He seems to offer up solutions rather than entering into recriminations. The trouble with Armstrong was he couldn't leave Lemond alone after the Ferrari comment. Rather than allow that innocuous comment go he had to come back at Lemond all guns blazing. Lemond had no option but to defend himself. Armstrong brought it upon himself. Lemond is often portrayed as a bitter loser by the Armstrong brigade citing his bullish attitude to Armstrong to support this. Problem is he isn't like that toward others who as you rightly point out robbed him of the manner of his retirement. There seems not to be any rancour toward them. Lemond seems to deal with indirect attacks very differently to direct attacks. Hinault directly attacked him in 85 and 86 on the road and Armstrong was similarly direct in his attacks from 2001 onwards in the press, in the courts and with Trek. I can't remember a similar occasion with Chiappucci, Indurain, Bugno or any other rider from his career. Can you?

 

[Big Doopie]

I disagree. Lemond has consistently opposed doping but I think he feels no need to boil it down to a attacking personalities rather propose methods to combat it. He seems to offer up solutions rather than entering into recriminations. The trouble with Armstrong was he couldn't leave Lemond alone after the Ferrari comment. Rather than allow that innocuous comment go he had to come back at Lemond all guns blazing. Lemond had no option but to defend himself. Armstrong brought it upon himself. Lemond is often portrayed as a bitter loser by the Armstrong brigade citing his bullish attitude to Armstrong to support this. Problem is he isn't like that toward others who as you rightly point out robbed him of the manner of his retirement. There seems not to be any rancour toward them. Lemond seems to deal with indirect attacks very differently to direct attacks. Hinault directly attacked him in 85 and 86 on the road and Armstrong was similarly direct in his attacks from 2001 onwards in the press, in the courts and with Trek. I can't remember a similar occasion with Chiappucci, Indurain, Bugno or any other rider from his career. Can you?

Great post.

Frankly the actual lack of bitterness I find amazing.

And an interview doesn't go by without him proclaiming that he does NOT blame the riders -- but the cycling authorities that do not protect the riders who wanted a clean sport.

Armstrong attacked him. All he did was defend himself against a sociopath. I don't just find no fault in the way he has acted, I admire it.

 

[MacRoadie]

I disagree. Lemond has consistently opposed doping but I think he feels no need to boil it down to a attacking personalities rather propose methods to combat it. He seems to offer up solutions rather than entering into recriminations. The trouble with Armstrong was he couldn't leave Lemond alone after the Ferrari comment. Rather than allow that innocuous comment go he had to come back at Lemond all guns blazing. Lemond had no option but to defend himself. Armstrong brought it upon himself. Lemond is often portrayed as a bitter loser by the Armstrong brigade citing his bullish attitude to Armstrong to support this. Problem is he isn't like that toward others who as you rightly point out robbed him of the manner of his retirement. There seems not to be any rancour toward them. Lemond seems to deal with indirect attacks very differently to direct attacks. Hinault directly attacked him in 85 and 86 on the road and Armstrong was similarly direct in his attacks from 2001 onwards in the press, in the courts and with Trek. I can't remember a similar occasion with Chiappucci, Indurain, Bugno or any other rider from his career. Can you?

This. Spot on.

 

[Bavarianrider]

A bit whoobly but still going hard

 

[Franklin]

Lemond has consistently opposed doping

Non trolling question: Really???

I have been a follower of cycling in the eighties and doping was a big deal back then. We allready knew that doping was extremely prevalent. I can not remember a single instance when Lemond spoke out against doping. Indeed, he had a quack contact who did some lowkey doping, he was good friends with dopers and rode for doper teams.

Nothing wrong with that attitude, as it is pretty pragmatic(you need to be able to race and not antagonize all your co-athletes), but that's quite a far cry from someone like Bassons.

I have no reason to think Lemond was a doper, but this image of him being the knight on the white horse combating doping while keeping his integrity is not matching with how I remember those years

 

[Escarabajo]

Non trolling question: Really???

I have been a follower of cycling in the eighties and doping was a big deal back then. We allready knew that doping was extremely prevalent. I can not remember a single instance when Lemond spoke out against doping. Indeed, he had a quack contact who did some lowkey doping, he was good friends with dopers and rode for doper teams.

Nothing wrong with that attitude, as it is pretty pragmatic(you need to be able to race and not antagonize all your co-athletes), but that's quite a far cry from someone like Bassons.

I have no reason to think Lemond was a doper, but this image of him being the knight on the white horse combating doping while keeping his integrity is not matching with how I remember those years

He left PDM because of doping practices in the team if I remember correctly. I am sure Race Radio knows all the details. Maybe lack of publicity back then and the lack of internet and the other communication tools that we have today are a big factor in knowing everything that we know today.

 

[Race Radio]

Non trolling question: Really???

I have been a follower of cycling in the eighties and doping was a big deal back then. We allready knew that doping was extremely prevalent. I can not remember a single instance when Lemond spoke out against doping.

Really?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...dm-riders-frenchman-laurent-fignon-ron-stanko

The dispute with PDM also involved LeMond`s refusal to consider the use of performance-enhancing drugs, according to Stanko. A synthetic derivative of the male hormone testosterone was reportedly the drug in question.

``PDM has a very scientific method of training athletes,`` the attorney said. ``They believe that if any athlete`s body produces a substance naturally but at a slow rate, to replace that substance faster is totally natural-like giving oxygen to someone who is short of breath.

``It seems logical, but the substances involved were seen as performance- enhancing, and their use was banned.``

Stanko said LeMond worried that the team could give him such drugs without his knowledge.

``You never know what`s happening,`` Stanko said. ``Given the team`s philosophy, anything was possible. I can`t say they actually said, `Here`s a bottle of testosterone, take some,` but they wanted Greg to be more a part of the program.``

 

[Franklin]

Really?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...dm-riders-frenchman-laurent-fignon-ron-stanko

If that is the whole key-point on which Lemond is being seen as vocally anti-doping call me unimpressed.

It's his lawyer saying Lemond has issues with people putting stuff inside him without his consent (and considering the standard of cyclists that deserves some recognition I guess). And this was in the context of a dispute with that team.

This is not Lemond saying: Doping is rife in the peleton! This sport needs to clean up!

So Race Radio, if this is it I am very much reinforced in the view I have of the 80'ies. Lemond wasn't particularly vocally anti-doping as a rider. What we have so far is his lawyer making a strong statement in an US newspaper. And that's okay.

 

[andy1234]

Really?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...dm-riders-frenchman-laurent-fignon-ron-stanko

That isn't anti doping, it's pro LeMond.
When he could use the doping issue to leverage his own position, he used it.

Well, his lawyer did.....

LeMond was a product of Renault, he must have had his eyes closed if he didn't encounter the same substances being offered there.