Leopold Konig discussion thread

[Zinoviev Letter]

It is fair to say that Konig's upper limit as a GC rider isn't really clear yet. He has participated in 4 GTs and was allowed to ride for GC in 3 of them, all 3 times finishing top 10. That's a pretty good start. However, he wasn't remotely near contesting the win in any of them and at 28 he needs to improve quite a bit to seriously contend in the future.

It's also fair to say though that he is very unlikely to get many opportunities to lead at Sky. Particularly as he has never been the kind of rider to perform at a high level in many races throughout the year, which is how Sky riders move up the pecking order. Without wins or regular very strong domestique performances, he won't be given the roles fought over by riders who show their strength often in other races. Sky don't indulge riders who base their whole season on a GT minor placing.

 

[lenric]

Loads of people said that his move to Sky was an error in terms of a successful career. But people sometimes care more about the money.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

Common guys, you know that you can't argue with a "slightly" biased Czech fan Kokoso about Konig not being at the top of the SKY packing order.

Is this necessary? I've never doubted pecking order proposed by others. On the contrary, I've agreed on that. So shut up you farking mor*n.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

He will undoubtedly top 5 a GT in his career, maybe if he is either lucky or extremely good he will podium.
Yes, not everyone adapts to SKY in their first year, but its not like he took some massive step back upon joining SKY. He improved at SKY.

As to him being without a team: Rolland came 4th in the 2014 Giro, just 5 minutes behind Quintana with less of a team than Konig had in 2014, where he came 14:00 behind Nibali.

Actually lots, probably most people get worse first year after joining Sky. I.e. Kiry. Only second year after joining they beign to profit Sky's preparation. We don't know is that would be König's case, though it could be.
Comparing Tour 2014 and Giro 2015, it doesn't appear to me that he got obviously better at Sky, more little bit worse actually, I think Tour 2014 was better performance. Rolland 4th in the Giro - firstly that fourth place is little bit artificial, second he had just the same team support as König - non. At least I remember Thurau doing something in the mountains sometimes, König had zero support and even had to fight against Machado who was briefly ahead of him in the GC after König was held by fall.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

Common guys, you know that you can't argue with a "slightly" biased Czech fan Kokoso about Konig not being at the top of the SKY packing order.

Is this necessary? I've never doubted pecking order proposed by others. On the contrary, I've agreed on that. So shut up you farking mor*n.

Kokoso, Jancouver was joking. no need to react this way.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

It is fair to say that Konig's upper limit as a GC rider isn't really clear yet. He has participated in 4 GTs and was allowed to ride for GC in 3 of them, all 3 times finishing top 10. That's a pretty good start. However, he wasn't remotely near contesting the win in any of them and at 28 he needs to improve quite a bit to seriously contend in the future.

It's also fair to say though that he is very unlikely to get many opportunities to lead at Sky. Particularly as he has never been the kind of rider to perform at a high level in many races throughout the year, which is how Sky riders move up the pecking order. Without wins or regular very strong domestique performances, he won't be given the roles fought over by riders who show their strength often in other races. Sky don't indulge riders who base their whole season on a GT minor placing.

Agree with this mostly. Only about the part that riders have to deserve their role in pecking order ano so on - König should be back up leader for Giro.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Common guys, you know that you can't argue with a "slightly" biased Czech fan Kokoso about Konig not being at the top of the SKY packing order.

Is this necessary? I've never doubted pecking order proposed by others. On the contrary, I've agreed on that. So shut up you farking mor*n.

Kokoso, Jancouver was joking. no need to react this way.

No, he wasn't actually.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

Poels is a far beeter rider who has come back from a life threatening almost career ending injury and shown what he can do...Poles wants to lead a GT and I am sure SKY would give him the go ahead before Koneig. IN fact they wlil give leadership to at least 5 or 6 riders before Koneig

Before season König was back up plan for Giro GC, not Poels. Go figure. What five or six riders?

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

Poels is a far beeter rider who has come back from a life threatening almost career ending injury and shown what he can do...Poles wants to lead a GT and I am sure SKY would give him the go ahead before Koneig. IN fact they wlil give leadership to at least 5 or 6 riders before Koneig

Before season König was back up plan for Giro GC, not Poels. Go figure. What five or six riders?

Let's see:Thomas,Landa,Poels,Henao,Nieve and Roche.Even Kennaugh is higher in Sky ranking.Konig needs to step it up in the smaller races to get any chance to co-lead in a GT,be content with slaving for others or gtfo and ride for himself at another team.He's proven top 10 GT material already and maybe he can do more with proper support and focus but i don't see it happening at Sky.

 

[pastronef]

at home in CZ gardening

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFCX6k6LaH3/

anyway, good mood and a Sky t-shirt. no need to worry

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Poels is a far beeter rider who has come back from a life threatening almost career ending injury and shown what he can do...Poles wants to lead a GT and I am sure SKY would give him the go ahead before Koneig. IN fact they wlil give leadership to at least 5 or 6 riders before Koneig

Before season König was back up plan for Giro GC, not Poels. Go figure. What five or six riders?

Let's see:Thomas,Landa,Poels,Henao,Nieve and Roche.Even Kennaugh is higher in Sky ranking.Konig needs to step it up in the smaller races to get any chance to co-lead in a GT,be content with slaving for others or gtfo and ride for himself at another team.He's proven top 10 GT material already and maybe he can do more with proper support and focus but i don't see it happening at Sky.

Henao, Roche, Poels, Kennaugh, Nieve - nope. At least not at start of the season. No one of them was back up plan for GC, König was. That's why that number surprised me. Froome, Thomas, Landa - yes. Poels maybe now, but who knows.
Edit: at start of the season it was: Landa for Giro, König back up, Froome for Tour, Thomas back up. No Roche, Henao or whoever. This four.

 

[carolina]

Re:

It's also fair to say though that he is very unlikely to get many opportunities to lead at Sky. Particularly as he has never been the kind of rider to perform at a high level in many races throughout the year, which is how Sky riders move up the pecking order. Without wins or regular very strong domestique performances, he won't be given the roles fought over by riders who show their strength often in other races. Sky don't indulge riders who base their whole season on a GT minor placing.

That's not entirely correct. How many times did landa show results or strong domestique performances before sky gave him full leadership for the giro? None. He has 1 good result in a GT while ridding for another team.

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

It's also fair to say though that he is very unlikely to get many opportunities to lead at Sky. Particularly as he has never been the kind of rider to perform at a high level in many races throughout the year, which is how Sky riders move up the pecking order. Without wins or regular very strong domestique performances, he won't be given the roles fought over by riders who show their strength often in other races. Sky don't indulge riders who base their whole season on a GT minor placing.

That's not entirely correct. How many times did landa show results or strong domestique performances before sky gave him full leadership for the giro? None. He has 1 good result in a GT while ridding for another team.

yes, 1 MAJOR GT placing, actually he would have been second in giro, not slaving for Aru. That's a huge difference to König, who wasn't able to keep up with Alberto even in his worst day. Moreover Landa performed very well in Vuelta last year too, helping Aru to shake off Dumoulin. Sadly.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

It's also fair to say though that he is very unlikely to get many opportunities to lead at Sky. Particularly as he has never been the kind of rider to perform at a high level in many races throughout the year, which is how Sky riders move up the pecking order. Without wins or regular very strong domestique performances, he won't be given the roles fought over by riders who show their strength often in other races. Sky don't indulge riders who base their whole season on a GT minor placing.

That's not entirely correct. How many times did landa show results or strong domestique performances before sky gave him full leadership for the giro? None. He has 1 good result in a GT while ridding for another team.

yes, 1 MAJOR GT placing, actually he would have been second in giro, not slaving for Aru. That's a huge difference to König, who wasn't able to keep up with Alberto even in his worst day. Moreover Landa performed very well in Vuelta last year too, helping Aru to shake off Dumoulin. Sadly.

Frankly, I don't know if you read above, but nobody is/was even trying to compare Landa and König, that isn't a point.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

Common guys, you know that you can't argue with a "slightly" biased Czech fan Kokoso about Konig not being at the top of the SKY packing order.

Is this necessary? I've never doubted pecking order proposed by others. On the contrary, I've agreed on that. So shut up you farking mor*n.

Hahaha, another display of a biased fan unable to handle an opinion of other forum member resulting in personal and immature attacks.

 

[carolina]

Re: Re:

It's also fair to say though that he is very unlikely to get many opportunities to lead at Sky. Particularly as he has never been the kind of rider to perform at a high level in many races throughout the year, which is how Sky riders move up the pecking order. Without wins or regular very strong domestique performances, he won't be given the roles fought over by riders who show their strength often in other races. Sky don't indulge riders who base their whole season on a GT minor placing.

That's not entirely correct. How many times did landa show results or strong domestique performances before sky gave him full leadership for the giro? None. He has 1 good result in a GT while ridding for another team.

yes, 1 MAJOR GT placing, actually he would have been second in giro, not slaving for Aru. That's a huge difference to König, who wasn't able to keep up with Alberto even in his worst day. Moreover Landa performed very well in Vuelta last year too, helping Aru to shake off Dumoulin. Sadly.

Like Kokoso said, that wasn't my point. You wrote that sky doesn't give leadership roles to its riders if they don't show some work for the team. Landa didn't show anything and did not work one single time for the team and he received, not only leadership, but an entire team to work for him (viviani is the only exception).

Also, he had 1 result in a GT while ridding for the most suspicious WT team. His results at the Vuelta prove nothing GC wise. Costa also managed to win 2 tour stages, that doesn't make him a GC rider in 3 week races. Until Landa shows again that he can be a reliable GC rider in a GT, we can't know if he's a fluke or not.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

It's also fair to say though that he is very unlikely to get many opportunities to lead at Sky. Particularly as he has never been the kind of rider to perform at a high level in many races throughout the year, which is how Sky riders move up the pecking order. Without wins or regular very strong domestique performances, he won't be given the roles fought over by riders who show their strength often in other races. Sky don't indulge riders who base their whole season on a GT minor placing.

That's not entirely correct. How many times did landa show results or strong domestique performances before sky gave him full leadership for the giro? None. He has 1 good result in a GT while ridding for another team.

yes, 1 MAJOR GT placing, actually he would have been second in giro, not slaving for Aru. That's a huge difference to König, who wasn't able to keep up with Alberto even in his worst day. Moreover Landa performed very well in Vuelta last year too, helping Aru to shake off Dumoulin. Sadly.

Like Kokoso said, that wasn't my point. You wrote that sky doesn't give leadership roles to its riders if they don't show some work for the team. Landa didn't show anything and did not work one single time for the team and he received, not only leadership, but an entire team to work for him (viviani is the only exception).

Also, he had 1 result in a GT while ridding for the most suspicious WT team. His results at the Vuelta prove nothing GC wise. Costa also managed to win 2 tour stages, that doesn't make him a GC rider in 3 week races. Until Landa shows again that he can be a reliable GC rider in a GT, we can't know if he's a fluke or not.

How can you even compare Landa with Konig? Landa was clearly hired to be a leader where Konig and many others were signed to support and to develop into (possible) future race leaders.

 

[carolina]

I wasn't trying to compare. He wrote that sky doesn't give leadership to someone that doesn't show results and/or work for the team. I was just pointing out that hiring Landa and giving him full leadership disproves what he wrote, specially because Landa isn't a bulletproof bet GC wise in a 3 week race.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Common guys, you know that you can't argue with a "slightly" biased Czech fan Kokoso about Konig not being at the top of the SKY packing order.

Is this necessary? I've never doubted pecking order proposed by others. On the contrary, I've agreed on that. So shut up you farking mor*n.

Hahaha, another display of a biased fan unable to handle an opinion of other forum member resulting in personal and immature attacks.

Firstly, you began with being personal. Secondly, do you realize that you "adjusted" reality for your needs? I won't say you lied because maybe you didn't do it intentionally.
Edit: not to mention that you really didn't express any opinion regarding topic, so I hardly could't handle it

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

I wasn't trying to compare. He wrote that sky doesn't give leadership to someone that doesn't show results and/or work for the team. I was just pointing out that hiring Landa and giving him full leadership disproves what he wrote, specially because Landa isn't a bulletproof bet GC wise in a 3 week race.

Some people really don't really read what you write, they just read what they want to read.

 

[pastronef]

not on the California squad, but it was to be expected, that CZ newspaper article says he's still training and recovering
we'll have to see him back in Monaco and then we see when he'll race again

 

[therealthing]

Sky squad just announced for ToC. No Konig.

 

[therealthing]

not on the California squad, but it was to be expected, that CZ newspaper article says he's still training and recovering
we'll have to see him back in Monaco and then we see when he'll race again

The next races he could be in are the Dauphiné, Tour de Swizz and Tour of Slovenia.

 

[pastronef]

not on the California squad, but it was to be expected, that CZ newspaper article says he's still training and recovering
we'll have to see him back in Monaco and then we see when he'll race again

The next races he could be in are the Dauphiné, Tour de Swizz and Tour of Slovenia.

I think Slovenia and/or Poland

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

It's also fair to say though that he is very unlikely to get many opportunities to lead at Sky. Particularly as he has never been the kind of rider to perform at a high level in many races throughout the year, which is how Sky riders move up the pecking order. Without wins or regular very strong domestique performances, he won't be given the roles fought over by riders who show their strength often in other races. Sky don't indulge riders who base their whole season on a GT minor placing.

That's not entirely correct. How many times did landa show results or strong domestique performances before sky gave him full leadership for the giro? None. He has 1 good result in a GT while ridding for another team.

Landa came in near the top of the pecking order. He was hired to lead a GC, based on a single performance that rightly or wrongly led them to believe that he can win a GC. He's actually quite an interesting exception to the Sky way of doing things. Everybody else, whether from within the team or a new signing, has had to do the business at Sky to move up the ladder and be guaranteed GC leadership for a GT.

If Landa has a bad year it will be interesting to see if he ends up back in the scrum with everyone else not named Froome. I don't think we'll get the chance to find out though.

As for Konig, there is some chance that a non-existent first half of the season lets him get in great form for the post-Tour part of the season. Maybe Froome decides not to bother with the Vuelta, maybe the other big name domestiques are out of form or just exhausted, and then he gets a chance. But really, I just hope he gets out of Sky and goes to another team where he can get more opportunities.