Lesser Known Race Results 2020

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Lesser Known Race Results 2018

Proof again that the Italian fall classics are the best one-day races of the season.

Better than the Flemish spring classics? Not in a million years.

I think he was comparing them to the Ardennes.. the hilly classics in general.

Emilia is what Fleche Wallone is supposed to be like and Lombardia is what Liege is supposed to be like.

You could compare TVV to Amstel but Amstel has been great in recent editions.

This reminds me of the discussions every year about the Vuelta and Giro being what the Tour is supposed to be like. It's like preferring a high scoring La Liga game between two mid table sides, over a boring Champions League final. Each has its merits as a spectacle, but one undoubtedly has more gravitas and is an example of the sport being performed at a higher level.

Its somewhat inevitable and impossible to prevent these days that the Tour and Ardennes are less entertaining than their counterparts. They are simply raced at a much higher level, where finer margins tend decide the races, with the best riders on top form and with insanely strong teams (full of domestiques in top form) who can control the life out of the races.

Great post!

 

[Red Rick]

I once again see no arguments in support of the claim, just the claim repeated over and over again.

Estimated W/kg aren't systematically higher in the Tour on climbs of similar duration in similar places in the race.
Palmares of riders who top 5 the Tour aren't systematically better than those of the other GTs, especially lower in the top 5.

I'm pretty sure 2015 was the only one of the last 5 years where the Tour clearly had the strongest field, with Froome, Quintana, Valverde, Nibali and Contador in the top 5.

2014 was a wasteland with Peraud and Pinot miles after Nibali
2016 was decapitated with Contador crashing out and Quintana missing his peak
2017 was a very weak top 5 apart from Froome.
2018 has a top 5 with 2 of the same podium riders as the Giro, but both of them were tired and running on fumes by the end of the Tour.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

I once again see no arguments in support of the claim, just the claim repeated over and over again.

Startlist quality according to PCS.com:

Giro 2014 = 919 points
Giro 2015 = 848 points
Giro 2016 = 893 points
Giro 2017 = 808 points
Giro 2018 = 823 points

Tour 2014 = 1622 points
Tour 2015 = 1818 points
Tour 2016 = 1770 points
Tour 2017 = 1777 points
Tour 2018 = 1707 points

Vuelta 2014 = 1136 points
Vuelta 2015 = 1088 points
Vuelta 2016 = 756 points
Vuelta 2017 = 847 points
Vuelta 2018 = 1001 points

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I once again see no arguments in support of the claim, just the claim repeated over and over again.

Estimated W/kg aren't systematically higher in the Tour on climbs of similar duration in similar places in the race.
Palmares of riders who top 5 the Tour aren't systematically better than those of the other GTs, especially lower in the top 5.

I'm pretty sure 2015 was the only one of the last 5 years where the Tour clearly had the strongest field, with Froome, Quintana, Valverde, Nibali and Contador in the top 5.

2014 was a wasteland with Peraud and Pinot miles after Nibali
2016 was decapitated with Contador crashing out and Quintana missing his peak
2017 was a very weak top 5 apart from Froome.
2018 has a top 5 with 2 of the same podium riders as the Giro, but both of them were tired and running on fumes by the end of the Tour.

Even if this subjective assessment is true (it's not), that would be an incredibly narrow way to assess the strength of a race. It's not just the strength at the top end that make the Tour and Ardennes are higher in quality. The whole races are filled with the best cyclists on top form, the level of domestique and competition is much higher than other races.

And it is primarily the quality and depth of domestiques that makes the Tour and Ardennes less spectacular than the Vuelta or Italian classics. Races are more controlled, breakaways and attacks are way harder to make stick. It is also the depth in quality (both talent and form) throughout the starting list which makes them much more prestigious.

 

[Robert5091]

Chapeau Skujins & Trek - coming good late in the year. Uran & Woods seem to be lifting themselves. Pinot needs to work on his sprint

 

[Robert5091]

Weds 10 Oct Milano-Torino 200 km start 11.35 CET TV from 14.45 CET

Startlist at http://static2.milanotorino.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/MITO18_Elenco-partenti.pdf

Profile

Map

Superga climb

Finish -

The last 5 km (which are repeated twice excluding the final 600 mt) From Torino in Corso Casale, where the climb starts, bring to the Basilica of Superga. The average slope is 9,1% with a peak of 14% in the middle of climb and long parts of 10%. At 600m from the arrival the route requires a “U” turn on the left to face the final ramp of 8,2% of slope. Finally, the last turn on the asphalt at 50mt from the finish line.

 

[Robert5091]

Official Twitter at https://twitter.com/MiTo1876

Pinot, Mas, Superman, Bernal to fight it out.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I once again see no arguments in support of the claim, just the claim repeated over and over again.

Estimated W/kg aren't systematically higher in the Tour on climbs of similar duration in similar places in the race.
Palmares of riders who top 5 the Tour aren't systematically better than those of the other GTs, especially lower in the top 5.

I'm pretty sure 2015 was the only one of the last 5 years where the Tour clearly had the strongest field, with Froome, Quintana, Valverde, Nibali and Contador in the top 5.

2014 was a wasteland with Peraud and Pinot miles after Nibali
2016 was decapitated with Contador crashing out and Quintana missing his peak
2017 was a very weak top 5 apart from Froome.
2018 has a top 5 with 2 of the same podium riders as the Giro, but both of them were tired and running on fumes by the end of the Tour.

Even if this subjective assessment is true (it's not), that would be an incredibly narrow way to assess the strength of a race. It's not just the strength at the top end that make the Tour and Ardennes are higher in quality. The whole races are filled with the best cyclists on top form, the level of domestique and competition is much higher than other races.

And it is primarily the quality and depth of domestiques that makes the Tour and Ardennes less spectacular than the Vuelta or Italian classics. Races are more controlled, breakaways and attacks are way harder to make stick. It is also the depth in quality (both talent and form) throughout the starting list which makes them much more prestigious.

Your last couple of posts in this thread have been excellent.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Also, next year we have to give TVV it’s own thread.

 

[Pantani_lives]

The start list for M-T looks strong. Apart from Lombardia this is my favorite course in the Italian fall.

*****Valverde
****Pinot, Moscon
***De Marchi, A. Yates
**López, Majka
*De Gendt, Mollema, Oomen, D. Martin, Jungels

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I once again see no arguments in support of the claim, just the claim repeated over and over again.

Startlist quality according to PCS.com:

Giro 2014 = 919 points
Giro 2015 = 848 points
Giro 2016 = 893 points
Giro 2017 = 808 points
Giro 2018 = 823 points

Tour 2014 = 1622 points
Tour 2015 = 1818 points
Tour 2016 = 1770 points
Tour 2017 = 1777 points
Tour 2018 = 1707 points

Vuelta 2014 = 1136 points
Vuelta 2015 = 1088 points
Vuelta 2016 = 756 points
Vuelta 2017 = 847 points
Vuelta 2018 = 1001 points

I can't even begin to start to understand as to why you'd use that PCS stat to determine the quality of the climbing field.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

I once again see no arguments in support of the claim, just the claim repeated over and over again.

Startlist quality according to PCS.com:

Giro 2014 = 919 points
Giro 2015 = 848 points
Giro 2016 = 893 points
Giro 2017 = 808 points
Giro 2018 = 823 points

Tour 2014 = 1622 points
Tour 2015 = 1818 points
Tour 2016 = 1770 points
Tour 2017 = 1777 points
Tour 2018 = 1707 points

Vuelta 2014 = 1136 points
Vuelta 2015 = 1088 points
Vuelta 2016 = 756 points
Vuelta 2017 = 847 points
Vuelta 2018 = 1001 points

I can't even begin to start to understand as to why you'd use that PCS stat to determine the quality of the climbing field.

Because Grands Tours are not 3000km+ of climbing.

 

[RedheadDane]

Okay, I'm totally in stitches over the chaperones with the little "1" and "Jersey" signs. Especially since Bennett got both.

Also… I'm guessing this is not the full startlist for Gran Piemonte; I'm suspecting Astana won't be starting with just two riders.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Okay, I'm totally in stitches over the chaperones with the little "1" and "Jersey" signs. Especially since Bennett got both.

Also… I'm guessing this is not the full startlist for Gran Piemonte; I'm suspecting Astana won't be starting with just two riders.

Startlists on PCS look like that all the time?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Turkey stage 2. Bennett wins, Hodeg second, Consonni third. A pretty straightforward sprint after yesterday’s chaos.

 

[del1962]

Milan Torino Profile

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Current situation:

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Lol Valverde attacks on the first climb!

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

...and tiz breaks down.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Lol Valverde attacks on the first climb!

Sort of but yes.

 

[greenedge]

So Mitchelton's team have collapsed, not a good sign for Kreuziger for Lombardia and Yates seemed to have been dropped by Valverde (clawed back now though).

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

...and tiz breaks down.

https://ok.ru/live/1150337818321

 

[Rollthedice]

Moscon is dead.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Moscon dropping on the first time up Superga

 

[Rollthedice]

Valverde has gone loco. Playing with the field.