Let's admit it. The doping angle of cycling makes it great.

[ElChingon]

Anyway.

Its the sport that more closely resembles real life and its complexities. The doping is bad and I'm sure many are disgusted by it but some people also lead a semi-sheltered life and are not exposed to the affects of doping in real life as some other forum posters are. What is the solution to the doping issues in cycling and what are they in the real life? Neither has solved the problem and I doubt there will be a true solution in either anytime soon as it involves us humans and the trickery us humans employ in both, not to mention the determination and addiction related to it. Well some humans.

The racing is racing on race day after the gun goes off and most of us still can separate the two at that moment, till it rears its ugly head after the testers or narks pop out with the bad news. Then the melodrama ensues. As life is a melodrama, those who are enthralled by the melodrama of life and cycling continue to follow it. It allows us to pin point the bad guys and the good guys, even though we do not always agree on who the bad and good guys are we continue to watch and debate. One's hero maybe another's evil nemesis or arch enemy making up dividing lines within the fans and more debate ensues.

A few fans fall off the map of cycling meanwhile others sign on and even more continue to follow as they always have, even after threatening to stop after the Nth doping violation/victim has fallen. It is what it is, anyone still reading these forum posts is a fan and will continue to be a fan no matter what (in my eyes).

Then again, every post could be a random post from a programed bot post generator used to generate ad click counts for the advertisers to pay for the site and the site owners so they get a pay check at the end of the pay period? Either way, if you're reading this here now you're a fan and will continue to be so lets get on to the new doping story... I mean race result

 

[Sanitiser]

The doping angle of cycling makes this forum great. It's the National Enquirer of the cycling world. Where prodigious dreamers talk in their sleep about a time that never existed only to be awaken by reality's brutalities. Some accept and move on while others act out like angry children that don't get their way. Long live cycling and the characters of this clinic!!

Yeah I think too many posters here live in some sort of utopia.

 

[gobuck]

How would you feel if you were good enough but you weren't aware of the doping. If you had doped you could have a good carreer. Now your too old to be a pro and you are doing something just to pay the bills. You find out that stud pros who used to beat you weren't studs but cheats.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

The investigations. The denials. The comebacks. The tales of redemption. The enemies. The heroes. The corruption. The Elisa Bassos. The coke. The strippers.

They add an extra layer to this sport. Do you really want it to just be about the bikes? Or can you admit that you like the 'cops and robbers' aspect of the sport probably more than the racing itself.

The extra layer is a big, isolating, distraction that has made interacting with casual fans even more tricky.

 

[stainlessguy1]

The doping angle makes it great .

That is human nature , If anyone cares to re-read the thread about Steve Bauer / team Canada. The article from the paper where he was interviewed and the long cast of theories which i thought a bit negative from the posters . Then after only 4 pages the posts became more positive and ended in everyone basically wishing Steve lots of luck . That was the end of the thread , nothing has been added .
So i guess when there is no juicy Dope story , then there is no story .
Just another day in paradise , weather is a balmy 23 degrees sun is shining and a mild breeze blows over the tulips . The beer is chilled to perfection and that is the end of the broadcast .
Ditto that for day 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and so on and so forth . smiles .
No one would even be on these threads except maybe gardeners because the weather is so perfect .

 

[VeloFidelis]

I'd say the OP got it just about right. For all the vociferous anti-doping sentiment recorded in the posts here in the Forum, none of us have stopped paying attention. Some of us have been fans for decades, and though we like to think that in some instances we have cheered for clean riders, none of us has ever witnessed a clean race... and we never will.

 

[BotanyBay]

A very close family member of mine was a longtime alcoholic. I grew up next to it. Thought it was normal at first. Even thought of it as almost endearing. Cute. Just part of that person. Normal.

But it progressed. And as I came to grow up, I began to recognize the downsides of the affliction as dysfunctional. Not cute. Not endearing. And not normal.

It took the destruction of this person's life for them to recognize it as what it was. Alcoholism. I did not even recognize it as that until after the person sought help. Because I only knew that person AS an alcoholic.

But now I see the situation for what it was.

Does this make any sense?

People thought "Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf" was funny on the Howard Stern Show. Did his alcoholism really make the show "Great"?

 

[VeloFidelis]

Professional sport without doping, and life without alcoholism... both pretty lofty goals. Do you think either is attainable?

 

[BotanyBay]

Professional sport without doping, and life without alcoholism... both pretty lofty goals. Do you think either is attainable?

Doping is not what made the sport interesting. And alcohol merely made this person in my life "dramatic".

And if you think my point was to "attain" a lack of either, you missed it. That's as attainable as good conquering evil.

People just need to recognize the bad AS bad.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'd say the OP got it just about right. For all the vociferous anti-doping sentiment recorded in the posts here in the Forum, none of us have stopped paying attention. Some of us have been fans for decades, and though we like to think that in some instances we have cheered for clean riders, none of us has ever witnessed a clean race... and we never will.

You say you are in agreemwnt with the OP, even though they don't mention anything about people stopping 'paying attention'.

The OP was on about how doping and all the stories add an extra layer to the sport that is or should be welcomed.

The investigations. The denials. The comebacks. The tales of redemption. The enemies. The heroes. The corruption. The Elisa Bassos. The coke. The strippers.

They add an extra layer to this sport. Do you really want it to just be about the bikes? Or can you admit that you like the 'cops and robbers' aspect of the sport probably more than the racing itself.

 

[BotanyBay]

The investigations. The denials. The comebacks. The tales of redemption. The enemies. The heroes. The corruption. The Elisa Bassos. The coke. The strippers.

They add an extra layer to this sport. Do you really want it to just be about the bikes? Or can you admit that you like the 'cops and robbers' aspect of the sport probably more than the racing itself.

I suppose it's like asking a guy why he likes being a cop. As if eliminating crime is somehow his goal. Would his job be boring if there were no crime.

But elimination is irrelevant, as it is not possible.

Sure, cops are attracted to catching bad guys. Big deal. So shame on me for enjoying the process of justice?

 

[VeloFidelis]

You say you are in agreemwnt with the OP, even though they don't mention anything about people stopping 'paying attention'.

The OP was on about how doping and all the stories add an extra layer to the sport that is or should be welcomed.

I think the "welcomed" aspect is one of many possible subjective and minor interpretations of his post.

But it is undeniable that many of the most active members here increase their posts dramatically with each new doping scandal. Just as it is undeniable that this is the current state of professional cycling... and just like a crash on the highway, no one is looking away.

 

[BotanyBay]

But it is undeniable that many of the most active members here increase their posts dramatically with each new doping scandal..

I've given thought to this recently. I used to avoid this topic as recently as a few years ago. But I came to feel that while there was never a shortage of discussions on who would win P-R this Spring, that there was indeed a lack of interest and focus in the doping discussions.

I still reads the racing stories with great interest, but there is nothing that I'm going to be able to "figure out" as far as who'll win. I enjoy the puzzle that is doping. Why people do it, how they do it, how they cover it up, how they get caught, if they get caught, why people seek to let it go, etc.

If Taylor Phinney wins an event this Spring... Good for him. I'll be happy to read about it. But I don't need to discuss why he's so awesome. There's plenty of people to do that.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think the "welcomed" aspect is one of many possible subjective and minor interpretations of his post.

But it is undeniable that many of the most active members here increase their posts dramatically with each new doping scandal. Just as it is undeniable that this is the current state of professional cycling... and just like a crash on the highway, no one is looking away.

It's not subjective when the thread title is "Lets admit it. The doping angle of cycling makes it great".

Posts count or comments by people have nothing to do with what the OP is suggesting - and indeed it could be argued that it shows their view is a contradiction.

You (& the OP) are entitled to believe that the doping adds to the sport - but many of us do not share that view.

 

[BotanyBay]

You can invite 10 photographers to a public hanging and they'll each walk away with a potential Pulitzer Prize winning image. That doesn't make a hanging "great".

Train wrecks: Not great. But plenty of spectators once one happens.

 

[stainlessguy1]

so to sum it all up

If we try to sum it all up , all good posts . Whether its the original post , asking the question that we have established what the original poster ment by the original question . Can we agree that the * Lets admit it * phrase on the header mightbe ment to catch us all, as posters, in posting about doping. Thus without the doping that the whole of the reporting is rather boring when it comes to new things to write about . So to recap , the second part of the question being the ( the doping angle of cycling makes it great ) which means the fact that the angle of cycling is great because it makes blogging and posting great . Nothing was intended to be great about doping itself in cycling . So perhaps the original post has merit if it is interpreted in another way .

 

[BotanyBay]

The investigations. The denials. The comebacks. The tales of redemption. The enemies. The heroes. The corruption. The Elisa Bassos. The coke. The strippers.

They add an extra layer to this sport. Do you really want it to just be about the bikes? Or can you admit that you like the 'cops and robbers' aspect of the sport probably more than the racing itself.

They add an extra layer, and they make for interesting reading. But never "great".

I remember in the 80's when an entire generation of cycling fans in the USA would eagerly await their copy of WINNING magazine. Never a mention of the words "doping" or "corruption", and I'd read it cover-to-cover, sucking as much out of it as I could. I know many people who can quote the benign (by today's standards) articles today, purely from memory.

The writers back then seemed to know how to write about the sport. A race wasn't just an event with a course, riders and finish line. A race included in that magazine was always a "story".

Don't blame me for being interested in the topic of doping. Perhaps we can blame the writers and editors who have lowered their standards for (in an editorial way) letting the racing itself "feel" less than great. It can be done. But few do it now. Now the sport is covered more in "raw footage". Paul and Phil do some good, but the journalists seem to have fallen out of love with bike racing.

 

[Sanitiser]

I feel like Shakespeare.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I feel like Shakespeare.

You're not even Robbie Shakespeare.

 

[flicker]

Cycling is a great sport. It would be greater without doping. That goes for all sports. It would be especially good if the Olympics could live up to their original ideals.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Sorry, but IMHO the way this thread was worded by the OP felt just like a leering 'come-on' to get some forum members whipped up about posting. Still gotta agree with Macroadie and remind others of the style that some of the OP's other threads reflect...

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I feel like Shakespeare.

You feel like a phony?

 

[VeloFidelis]

It's not subjective when the thread title is "Lets admit it. The doping angle of cycling makes it great".

Posts count or comments by people have nothing to do with what the OP is suggesting - and indeed it could be argued that it shows their view is a contradiction.

You (& the OP) are entitled to believe that the doping adds to the sport - but many of us do not share that view.

Sorry Mate, but my interpretation of what the OP is on about is a little different from yours. I guess that would make both of ours... oh, what's that word... oh yeah... subjective!

For me it would seem that he is drawing attention to the fact that the most prolific and staunchly anti doping posters can't seem to resist;

"The investigations. The denials. The comebacks. The tales of redemption. The enemies. The heroes. The corruption. The Elisa Bassos. The coke. The strippers."

I can only assume this is the "us" to which you refer. That minority who become decidedly more vociferous with every new scandal; a well established and documentable tendency which would seem to make your "post count" assessment a bit disingenuous

It is my impression that he is making the argument that even those who rail against it most, are drawn in because of it. It is a position that I agree with. I suppose that it is a personal question of motivation that we all have to ask ourselves. If you are not up to a little honest introspection, then please feel free to leap to conclusions and misinterpret other people's posts, as you have clearly done with mine.

Before you incorrectly assign some random conclusion which is not supported by the post in question, I would encourage you to engage the poster in a dialog to instead of devolving to "argumentum ad homenim". We have far to much of that here already, and it does nothing to promote rational discourse.

 

[BotanyBay]

this thread has devolved from a post about one thing into an argument over what the OP was really about.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sorry Mate, but my interpretation of what the OP is on about is a little different from yours. I guess that would make both of ours... oh, what's that word... oh yeah... subjective!

For me it would seem that he is drawing attention to the fact that the most prolific and staunchly anti doping posters can't seem to resist;

"The investigations. The denials. The comebacks. The tales of redemption. The enemies. The heroes. The corruption. The Elisa Bassos. The coke. The strippers."

I can only assume this is the "us" to which you refer. That minority who become decidedly more vociferous with every new scandal; a well established and documentable tendency which would seem to make your "post count" assessment a bit disingenuous

It is my impression that he is making the argument that even those who rail against it most, are drawn in because of it. It is a position that I agree with. I suppose that it is a personal question of motivation that we all have to ask ourselves. If you are not up to a little honest introspection, then please feel free to leap to conclusions and misinterpret other people's posts, as you have clearly done with mine.

Before you incorrectly assign some random conclusion which is not supported by the post in question, I would encourage you to engage the poster in a dialog to instead of devolving to "argumentum ad homenim". We have far to much of that here already, and it does nothing to promote rational discourse.

Us or them............either way it does not matter.

It makes no odds if the OP (or you) believe its about the fans or the posters here.
Either way I don't support the view - before and after "honest introspection".
I would prefer to talk about the racing and the sport in general.

Where have I done an Ad Hominen? You (& the OP) have your view - as I said you are entitled to it.