Levi Leipheimer

Page 5 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Mar 18, 2009
4,186
0
0
Roland Rat said:
What's the story on Davis and Connie Phinney? Both won medals in the '84 Olympics, when according to some USA was providing a little more assistance to its squad than some.

Well, if I'm not mistaken, those were the olympics where the US team were admittedly getting blood transfusions, but unless I am mistaken transfusions hadn't yet been banned at the time.

I personally think Davis Phinney's reaction to Delgado testing positive is far more damning.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,854
2
0
issoisso said:
Well, if I'm not mistaken, those were the olympics where the US team were admittedly getting blood transfusions, but unless I am mistaken transfusions hadn't yet been banned at the time.

I personally think Davis Phinney's reaction to Delgado testing positive is far more damning.

The road team did not use the transfusions, only track
 
Mar 18, 2009
14,644
81
22,580
We should put a call out on all the other cycling forums to find a copy of Winning or Velonews that contains the information. I think I threw out all my old copies, but others are sure to have a dusty stack hidden away.

Usenet might be a place to check also. You would think there would be something in rec.bicycles.racing.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
We in the Navajo Nation consider them 2 podium squaws Native Goddesses.

Hey you can't take what Phinney says seriously. For Gods' sake he is a young kid.

Trashing Wienheimer is ridiculous. He is as clean as any other rider. Simple.

Vino has in the past been a top fueler. My guess is anything goes as far as PEDs go with that boy.

I question the Papp smear.coinciding withe the Gila, Tour of California etc.

Joe you would make an excellent politician. Just keep beating down the others to cover your own follies.

When does Willie Horton meet your Crosshairs Papp?
 
Mar 10, 2009
504
0
0
joe_papp said:
Actually, it shows clearly that Leipheimer was willing to cheat from earliest days to win in cycling...and it exposes the hypocrisy of his pseudo-teammate Taylor Phinney, who will **** "doper" at Vino' and whine that he dislikes cheaters, while remaining either ignorant of, or silent on, his pseudo-teammate's of history of doping.

Exactly.

Either Phinney's ignorance is his bliss, or he's stupid. Ignorance can be corrected through education; stupidity, however, is forever.
 
Mar 13, 2009
2,932
55
11,580

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
1
0
BroDeal said:
There is nothing funnier than watching a chamois sniffer get upset when the truth is revealed. This is no smear on Leipheimer. It is the truth. Period. Full stop. It is the truth that Leipheimer and his Wikipedia lackey want to hide. People have known about Leipheimer's doping infraction for a long time. It pops up from time to time in forums, but no one has been able to pin the story down. This thread settles the matter.

Phinney is a tool. He complained about Vino winning a race on a different continent that he did not even ride while he stays silent about Leipheimer, who he is competing against this week.

I find it funny to watch the old ladies swing their handbags at anything Lance related:)

BTW, the Levi bust has been "pinned down" multiple times since 1996.
It fades into obscurity and then gets discussed anew. yawn.

Hopefully Phinney will continue to speak out against the dopers of HIS choice.
There is NOTHING wrong with holding grudges against certain dopers and not against others lol.

My favorite doper to grudge against is Alberto grrrrrr.

It would be cool if Alberto called Lance a doper without criticizing Vino.
The HandBag posse would erupt into a happy hypocrisy Conga Line of glee:)
Joe Papp should would no problem with that? No thread about Vino doping?
 
Feb 21, 2010
1,007
0
0
Polish said:
How can you be so sure?

"did not use" is not the same as "did not get caught"


Well, it has been WELL documented that the USA mens road team members flatly refused to use transfusions.

Even if they had taken them, there would have been no catching them, as :

1. It was not prohibited

and

2. There was no testing... they don't test for things that are not prohibited.
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
1
0
Colm.Murphy said:
Well, it has been WELL documented that the USA mens road team members flatly refused to use transfusions.

Even if they had taken them, there would have been no catching them, as :

1. It was not prohibited

and

2. There was no testing... they don't test for things that are not prohibited.

That makes sense - Thanks.
 
Apr 16, 2009
17,600
6,854
28,180
alanshearer said:
I take it you don't know that many 20-year-old kids.
Fair enough. He should learn then. We'll see how much he changes in 10 years. We might be coming back here to discuss the same thing.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
flicker said:
We in the Navajo Nation consider them 2 podium squaws Native Goddesses.

Hey you can't take what Phinney says seriously. For Gods' sake he is a young kid.

Trashing Wienheimer is ridiculous. He is as clean as any other rider. Simple.

Vino has in the past been a top fueler. My guess is anything goes as far as PEDs go with that boy.

I question the Papp smear.coinciding withe the Gila, Tour of California etc.

Joe you would make an excellent politician. Just keep beating down the others to cover your own follies.

When does Willie Horton meet your Crosshairs Papp?

Actually it was dimspace started all of this. When phinney critised vino, I raised the idea on twitter than it was a bit hippocritical someone calling vino a cheat when he rode under the banner of a certain texan. Phinneys response was "has that texan ever tested positive! I think not."
thats what started this whole thing. That turned into rs riders doping, which led to the levi revelations (which a lot of people knew nothing about). Joe then put that revelation on his blog (as he has a right to do). So if you want to blame someone, blame me, i started it
 
Mar 26, 2010
92
0
0
Escarabajo said:
Fair enough. He should learn then. We'll see how much he changes in 10 years. We might be coming back here to discuss the same thing.


I'm a lot more willing to cut a 20-year-old some slack for mouthing off, getting ahead of himself, not thinkings things through all the way, etc. It's what 20-year-olds do. Taylor seems to be a pretty good kid, but he's never struck me as being particularly mature for his age.

But I think it's fair game to scrutinize the twittering maturity level of someone a bit older -- say former retiree in late 30's.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
TeamSkyFans said:
Actually it was dimspace started all of this. When phinney critised vino, I raised the idea on twitter than it was a bit hippocritical someone calling vino a cheat when he rode under the banner of a certain texan. Phinneys response was "has that texan ever tested positive! I think not."
thats what started this whole thing. That turned into rs riders doping, which led to the levi revelations (which a lot of people knew nothing about). Joe then put that revelation on his blog (as he has a right to do). So if you want to blame someone, blame me, i started it

I do not take Phinneys' opinion seriously. If you listen to his comments they are pretty tongue and cheek sarcastic.

Taylor is a phenomenon as a rider, I just hope he stays clean.

The obsession on Levi on Ephedra.... dude that is ephedra is crap whack. It will only make you go faster for a while, and when you quit it is hard on the system. Basilly your system crashes.

There are many more effective stimulants.

The tour of California is coming up and can any experts out ther identify the lily white clean riders, as pure as Marilynn Chambers on a box of Ivory Snow.

Please tell me and I'll buy you a beer!
 
Mar 11, 2009
10,526
3,561
28,180
This thread is poorly titled, as it should be labeled something with reference to Taylor Phinney. While the information is about Levi's past doping sanction, Phinney is being equally ignorant of Lance's six EPO positives from 1999, and a slew of other things. He's young, but should know better. If you speak out against doping you'll get a lot of hard core fans attention, but you have to truly speak out about it, and not be selective, which is the whole point Joe makes here I believe.

Great SI article there. One reason for blood doping barely mentioned is that it was well known that the Soviets and especially DDR had blood doped their endurance athletes to gain an edge. Frank Shorter is still looking for an apology (if not a reversal) from Waldemar Cierpinski stealing the 1976 gold medal from him, when Cierpinski was blood doped and Shorter clean.

Alexi Grewal was a total ass in his time, but in recent years has done a lot to change that, such as helping homeless people in his own home and other community service. He's also definitely confessed, but most relate to "finally" doping when he became a pro, and that reference to mostly steroids and cortisone. One of the names mentioned in that article became a coach I learned under for a little while, many years ago.

issoisso said:
I personally think Davis Phinney's reaction to Delgado testing positive is far more damning.
It's confusing, really. Especially as Delgado often contritely refers to it as "testing positive" himself in interviews. Though he's never directly said so, it was widely speculated that Perico was given steroids early in the season to get form and fitness up, and when it came to the Tour they gave him the probenicid "just in case" as it wasn't on the banned list yet. But who knows? It's not like he was some kid from Pennsylvania that rose to the top in miracle fashion. He was 2nd in the 1987 Tour before, and a former Vuelta winner. Delgado was a damned good racer.
 
May 13, 2009
1,872
367
11,180
When I started this thread, I named it as such because the emphasis was not on Taylor Phinney, though he was a catalyst for it. That said, if someone wants the thread name modified, tell me how to do it and I'll consider that action.

That said, I also want to address the claims that have been made to me directly, via my blog, and I think here, too, that there is some question about the validity of the web archive from Winning magazine where the sanction notice is held. Despite the fact that everyone knows such information would be nearly impossible to find online because of the year in which it occurred and the relative lack of internet penetration (And mainstream use) then, I've taken steps to seek confirmation from the original parties, and also corroboration from other journals and media outlets that may have reported on it.

That will be valuable for overcoming the objections of the wikipedia folks who keep deleting this information from L.L's entry based on bogus source claims.

Lastly, for everyone who's tried to make relativistic arguments about the "relative" lack of severity of L.L's transgression, compared to say, blood doping, that's not even the point. The point is that to be caught cheating is to be caught cheating, regardless of what you cheated with, and in fact the concept or zero-liability was developed in response to athlete's making the disingenuous claim of accidental ingestion of a banned substance in hopes of escaping punishment.

I started this thread about Levi's positive test because Taylor Phinney, who - regardless of age should realize that if he attacks in print a rider like Vino, he should be prepared to have his words, motivations and intentions subject to intense scrutiny - ... well, he attacked in print a rider like Vino, and in doing so exposed his (TP's) own hypocrisy by not offering the same condemnations of his RS pseudo-teammates, especially L.L.

And I'm not about to cut him a break when Lance Armstrong is an informal mentor of his. And specifically to avoid a scenario where people in the future have difficulty locating information on L.L's positive test, I started this thread, and am doing the laborious work now of getting confirmation in an official form from the stakeholders so that it can't be disappeared into the non-internet dustbin of history again.

Have a good weekend.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
Now here is a little tip about blood doping. You need to know how to handle it. Cells die quickly the handling needs to be delicate and properly done.

Way back when, I would say pre-2000 it was an archaic science.

Frightening to see these amatuers handling DNA the
Austrians for-instance.

People in medical said it is difficult to detect analagous blood doping.

I will bet my home that Tyler, Vino and Floyd were surprised.....obviously mis-handling of their blood.
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
1
0
Jesse Sergent

Jesse Sergent, Taylor's team mate on the LiveStrong U23 Team, won today's Gila TT. He beat Levi, Lance, DZ, TD, ETC.

Jesse, please please trash a non-RadioShack doper please. PLEASE.
Or maybe call Simeoni a "stinking hypocrite" or something.

The LiveStrong U23 team should become the team that Speaks Out.
Break the Omerta boo.

Maybe Omerta does not exist? Maybe Pro Riders do not speak out against other dopers because they are polite and not hypocrites?


http://twitter.com/jessesergent
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
Polish said:
Jesse Sergent, Taylor's team mate on the LiveStrong U23 Team, won today's Gila TT. He beat Levi, Lance, DZ, TD, ETC.

Jesse, please please trash a non-RadioShack doper please. PLEASE.
Or maybe call Simeoni a "stinking hypocrite" or something.

The LiveStrong U23 team should become the team that Speaks Out.
Break the Omerta boo.

Maybe Omerta does not exist? Maybe Pro Riders do not speak out against other dopers because they are polite and not hypocrites?


http://twitter.com/jessesergent
Oh darn you Lance. Darn you to heck. Please no 2 finger victory signs your ally, that other white devil the satan manxter.
 
Mar 11, 2009
10,526
3,561
28,180
Stay on topic, Flicker.

That goes for everyone else as well. We don't need this thread spiraling down the vortex like so many others.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
joe_papp said:
I've taken steps to seek confirmation from the original parties, and also corroboration from other journals and media outlets that may have reported on it.

That will be valuable for overcoming the objections of the wikipedia folks who keep deleting this information from L.L's entry based on bogus source claims.

Houston you have a problem. The goal posts have just moved. They dont just want the original source being confirmed now, they have decided that for matters such as this involving a high profile living personality, TWO peices of evidence would be required. Im assuming on the production of two peices of evidence that the goalposts will move again.
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
1
0
I have been aware of the "Levi Doping" case for many years now and I always assumed it was true.

However, now i am not so sure....If it is not true enough for wikipedia, is it true enough for me??

Anyway, went back through my archive of old mags. Nothing.

Winning magazine was never OnLine....too old.
I suppose it is possible people typed in stories after the fact manually into the interwebs. How reliable is that?

Anyway, the New York Times still lists Levi as the Winner:

MEN'S CRITERIUM Levi Leipheimer, Butte, Mont.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/29/sports/from-atlanta-to-wembley-winners-all.html?pagewanted=1

photo-35.jpg

.
.
.
 

Latest posts