Liége-Bastogne-Liége flat finish from 2019

[Zoetemelk-fan]

In 2019 La Doyenne, the oldest of the Monuments, will return to what was its traditional finish in the centre of Liège. Which means a flat finish.
That is: it has been decided to drop Côte d'Ans as finish after 27 times at the calendar.
The exact new finish route have not yet been decided, but I bet it would still include Côte de la Roche aux Faucons and maybe Côte Saint Nicolas also.
Put some words on your oppinion here.

 

[Netserk]

Great! Even greater if they ditch Nicolas as well.

#MakeRedouteGreatAgain

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Great! Even greater if they ditch Nicolas as well.

#MakeRedouteGreatAgain

Yeah I want SN gone too. Roche as the last big hill is great.

What I'd want even more is get rid of the whole part with the Rosier and Maquisard. Those climbs are useless while that's the part of the race where the herd should be thinned ahead of La Redoute.

 

[Netserk]

Nooo How else would you approach Redoute (from Stavelot)?

 

[spalco]

I voted "I don't know". I'm fine with a flat finish if the previous route is selective enough, which LBL should always be with its length and terrain, but I don't think I ever watched the "old" LBL.

 

[OlavEH]

Getting rid of Ans seems like a good idea. Perhaps San Nicolas too. But what would be the best alternative route after Redoute? There is still over 30 kms left at the top of Redoute. The route can't be dead flat for the last 30 km.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

Great! Even greater if they ditch Nicolas as well.

#MakeRedouteGreatAgain

Yeah I want SN gone too. Roche as the last big hill is great.

What I'd want even more is get rid of the whole part with the Rosier and Maquisard. Those climbs are useless while that's the part of the race where the herd should be thinned ahead of La Redoute.

Are there climbs nearby you’d prefer to those 2, or would you like the run-in to La Redoute to be even less selective?

 

[RedheadDane]

I don't know. Never watched the old finale, dunno what it'll be like.

Also, seems like CyclingTips is a bit confused as to what's the traditional finish.

 

[Squire]

How was the race with the old Liège finish? I'm too young to have seen it.

From the results it looks like it was mostly sprints from small groups. Even a 35 man sprint in 1989 won by Kelly, it seems. Maybe that was part of the reason for the route change?

 

[jflemaire]

According to RTBF, Saint-Nicolas should be out too. Preudhomme mentions that the last 10km would be flat, which happens to correspond to the distance from the top of Roche aux Faucons to Liège. I hope they would descend from rue du Sart-Tilman, a twisty little descent across the woods that could make for an exciting finale, but I'm not too optimistic. I suspect they'll use the highways.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

Getting rid of Ans seems like a good idea. Perhaps San Nicolas too. But what would be the best alternative route after Redoute? There is still over 30 kms left at the top of Redoute. The route can't be dead flat for the last 30 km.

You could keep RaF. Or do Colonster or Forges.

Alternatively, here's Lasterketa Burua's proposal (Link)

edit: And a previous finale I've proposed with RaF:

 

[jflemaire]

Re:

How was the race with the old Liège finish? I'm too young to have seen it.

From what I can remember the last climb was Les Forges, north of Remouchamps, then the main road down to Liège.

 

[Valanga]

Re:

According to RTBF, Saint-Nicolas should be out too. Preudhomme mentions that the last 10km would be flat, which happens to correspond to the distance from the top of Roche aux Faucons to Liège. I hope they would descend from rue du Sart-Tilman, a twisty little descent across the woods that could make for an exciting finale, but I'm not too optimistic. I suspect they'll use the highways.

Let's hope not! If they can learn anything from the Amstel it's to avoid highways in the finale...

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Great! Even greater if they ditch Nicolas as well.

#MakeRedouteGreatAgain

Yeah I want SN gone too. Roche as the last big hill is great.

What I'd want even more is get rid of the whole part with the Rosier and Maquisard. Those climbs are useless while that's the part of the race where the herd should be thinned ahead of La Redoute.

Are there climbs nearby you’d prefer to those 2, or would you like the run-in to La Redoute to be even less selective?

More selective, but that might require changing the whole middle section. Actually I think the Maquisard isn't that bad, but the Rosier and it's steady downhill are terrible.

You could approach Aywalle from the south I guess, but I don't know how hard the Targnon is, and I get 2 vastly different profiles for the same road

Anyway, spicing up the first 150km wouldn't be a bad idea either. Might as well cram in La Haussire in the first half.

 

[Netserk]

La Haussire is in the wrong direction, so you'd have to do quite a detour or only do the first half of it.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

La Haussire is in the wrong direction, so you'd have to do quite a detour or only do the first half of it.

Whoops. Thought it was very close to Saint Roche.

In any case, if it's gonna be Redoute/RaF, does it still have the false flat after the RaF?

If they're the last 2 hills, I definitely want more climbing before those 2 hills.

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

You could keep RaF. Or do Colonster or Forges.

Alternatively, here's Lasterketa Burua's proposal (Link)

I think that proposal is too easy the last 20 kms. Unless there is a hugh attack on La Redoute, the race would probably end in a sprint with a pretty large group.

Where did they ascend the time when they did Sart-Tilman instead of Roche Faucons? I can only find the ascent on the other side of Sart Tilman when I google the climb.

 

[Netserk]

La Haussire is in the wrong direction, so you'd have to do quite a detour or only do the first half of it.

Whoops. Thought it was very close to Saint Roche.

In any case, if it's gonna be Redoute/RaF, does it still have the false flat after the RaF?

If they're the last 2 hills, I definitely want more climbing before those 2 hills.

It's right next to Roche-en-Ardenne, by wrong direction I meant that you'd have to do it from the south, so you couldn't take the traditional route to ReA, but would have to do a detour.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

According to RTBF, Saint-Nicolas should be out too. Preudhomme mentions that the last 10km would be flat, which happens to correspond to the distance from the top of Roche aux Faucons to Liège. I hope they would descend from rue du Sart-Tilman, a twisty little descent across the woods that could make for an exciting finale, but I'm not too optimistic. I suspect they'll use the highways.

Let's hope not! If they can learn anything from the Amstel it's to avoid highways in the finale...

I'd say there are two reasons not to use highways during the finale of a race, or at all if it can in any way be avoided.

1: To make racing more exciting.
2: For the general infrastructure. Some people may not like if their highway is being shut down for a bike race. Especially if - as would hopefully be the case in the finale of L-B-L - the race has split asunder so it would take a long while for all riders to have passed.

 

[railxmig]

Re:

There doesn't seem to be too much before Redoute. Maybe there could be some smaller roads available around the village of Kin. There's also La Vecquee/Targnon, but that's similar to Rosier. If the alternative will be surfaced in the future then you could have a nice 2km@13% murito before Redoute. Wonder if Spaloumont (above Spa; now it's in a very bad shape) will be ever available.

According to RTBF, Saint-Nicolas should be out too. Preudhomme mentions that the last 10km would be flat, which happens to correspond to the distance from the top of Roche aux Faucons to Liège. I hope they would descend from rue du Sart-Tilman, a twisty little descent across the woods that could make for an exciting finale, but I'm not too optimistic. I suspect they'll use the highways.

A nice piece of road, but the tarmac looks a bit bumpy. I guess it would be interesting to see this road someday in LBL.

Before AGR changed its route i would argue that a flat finale would not be selective enough, as LBL is (or just seems to be) the TdF of monuments and many guys are playing it safe (look at how ridiculous it was when they let Jungels away), but maybe it will work better that the "modern traditional" finish. I would really prefer to have a harder start though. AGR has hills basically from the beginning while LBL starts only in the last 100km making the first 150km kinda useless IMO. Sadly, there's not too much around Bastogne, besides maybe Haussire. If N89 is available, then you could link it to Spinieux and then you'll land in the familiar territory but i don't think that's a large imporvement.

I am perfectly fine to have at least one edition of the race to be a bit different to check out the market. If it will deliver then i guess it will be permanent and if not, then at least "they've tried".

EDIT:

La Haussire is in the wrong direction, so you'd have to do quite a detour or only do the first half of it.

Whoops. Thought it was very close to Saint Roche.

In any case, if it's gonna be Redoute/RaF, does it still have the false flat after the RaF?

If they're the last 2 hills, I definitely want more climbing before those 2 hills.

It's right next to Roche-en-Ardenne, by wrong direction I meant that you'd have to do it from the south, so you couldn't take the traditional route to ReA, but would have to do a detour.

Isn't La Haussire north of ReA? If leading to Bastogne then yes, it's in the other direction, but from Bastogne it's actually in the right one. The you could use either N89 or N651 (via Oster) to link with the Stavelot climbs.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

You could keep RaF. Or do Colonster or Forges.

Alternatively, here's Lasterketa Burua's proposal (Link)

I think that proposal is too easy the last 20 kms. Unless there is a hugh attack on La Redoute, the race would probably end in a sprint with a pretty large group.

Where did they ascend the time when they did Sart-Tilman instead of Roche Faucons? I can only find the ascent on the other side of Sart Tilman when I google the climb.

If you mean 2013, they did Colonster: https://www.klimtijd.nl/beklimming/cote-de-colonster

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

There doesn't seem to be too much before Redoute. Maybe there could be some smaller roads available around the village of Kin. There's also La Vecquee/Targnon, but that's similar to Rosier. If the alternative will be surfaced in the future then you could have a nice 2km@13% murito before Redoute. Wonder if Spaloumont (above Spa; now it's in a very bad shape) will be ever available.

According to RTBF, Saint-Nicolas should be out too. Preudhomme mentions that the last 10km would be flat, which happens to correspond to the distance from the top of Roche aux Faucons to Liège. I hope they would descend from rue du Sart-Tilman, a twisty little descent across the woods that could make for an exciting finale, but I'm not too optimistic. I suspect they'll use the highways.

A nice piece of road, but the tarmac looks a bit bumpy. I guess it would be interesting to see this road someday in LBL.

Before AGR changed its route i would argue that a flat finale would not be selective enough, as LBL is (or just seems to be) the TdF of monuments and many guys are playing it safe (look at how ridiculous it was when they let Jungels away), but maybe it will work better that the "modern traditional" finish. I would really prefer to have a harder start though. AGR has hills basically from the beginning while LBL starts only in the last 100km making the first 150km kinda useless IMO. Sadly, there's not too much around Bastogne, besides maybe Haussire. If N89 is available, then you could link it to Spinieux and then you'll land in the familiar territory but i don't think that's a large imporvement.

I am perfectly fine to have at least one edition of the race to be a bit different to check out the market. If it will deliver then i guess it will be permanent and if not, then at least "they've tried".

The Targnon you mention has 2 different profiles for the exact same route on climbbybike. One of them is 2.1 @13%, which is a definitive finale opener, and the other stat says 2.8 @ 5.8/% or something, which isn't great

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

You could keep RaF. Or do Colonster or Forges.

Alternatively, here's Lasterketa Burua's proposal (Link)

I think that proposal is too easy the last 20 kms. Unless there is a hugh attack on La Redoute, the race would probably end in a sprint with a pretty large group.

Where did they ascend the time when they did Sart-Tilman instead of Roche Faucons? I can only find the ascent on the other side of Sart Tilman when I google the climb.

I don't think it's any easier than Amstel, and it's much harder before that.

vs.

 

[Valanga]

Re: Re:

Where did they ascend the time when they did Sart-Tilman instead of Roche Faucons? I can only find the ascent on the other side of Sart Tilman when I google the climb.

It's actually called the Côte de Tilff iirc.

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

If you mean 2013, they did Colonster: https://www.klimtijd.nl/beklimming/cote-de-colonster

No, I was thinking even earlier, like 2007.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/lbl07/?id=map

It's difficult to see on google maps just where they ascend Sart Tilman....