Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[eleven]

Ok now look. There is clearly a very strong anti-Johan, anti-LA, anti-RS bias in this forum.

That said, this latest move for a possible merger clearly involves throwing many individuals under the bus, if you will. The facts are that two teams with upwards of 35-40 riders contracted for next year are looking to combine to form one team for next year with an absolute maximum of 30 riders. That means that at least 5-10 riders will be without a team. This is late in the season to be looking for a contract, given that much of contract negotiations occur during the TdF or in early August.

And that's just the riders. This one new team won't have a need for the support staff of the two existing teams. Half of this cumulative staff will have to be let go, again late in the season.

Sure, some riders and staff will have no problem finding work for next year (though they'll have options that are more limited than had this happened a month ago), but some riders may not be able to find a team for next year. People will be screwed over. Does Johan care? Well we're not Johan so it's not for any of us to say, but he sure isn't helping is he?

Would you suggest that he instead not act in the best interest of his sponsors?

 

[Parrulo]

Well Contador doesnt seem to like the idea of the schlecks learning tactics.

that interview sounds faker then justin bieber's genitalia

 

[Race Radio]

What in the world are you talking about? First, you claimed yourself that this has been in the works since before the Tour. Second, the team ownership of both teams can't base their negotiations on when it would be convenient.

It is clear what I am talking about.

The sport has a long history of teams giving riders and staff advanced notice when a team folds and their jobs for the next year will not be around. The rare times that a team folds late in the year the managers are always called out. To pretend that the condemnation for these types of actions are reserved for Brunyeel is absurd.

Some may babble about bias but the fact is if this merger happens there will likely be dozens of riders and staff out of work next year and this appears to not concern Becca, Brunyeel, or their sycophants.

 

[royalpig180]

Would you suggest that he instead not act in the best interest of his sponsors?

No, I don't. But exactly which sponsors he's acting in the best interest of is unclear at the moment until we see what the structure of the new team is and which sponsors carry over. Regardless though, it is a difficult situation in which some people will find themselves jobless. I'm not saying that any of this is solely Johan's fault, but it is a tought situation for many involved.

 

[eleven]

No, I don't. But exactly which sponsors he's acting in the best interest of is unclear at the moment until we see what the structure of the new team is and which sponsors carry over.

it's public knowledge that RS and Nissan are carrying over. It makes sense, obviously, that Trek would remain (and save a boatload of money in the process).

Regardless though, it is a difficult situation in which some people will find themselves jobless. I'm not saying that any of this is solely Johan's fault, but it is a tough situation for many involved.

It's absolutely a very tough situation for some of the people involved. No doubt. You simply can't expect the directors to put the interests of individual riders above the interests of the sponsors or they soon won't be able to advance the interests of either - they'll be out of a team budget.

 

[luckyboy]

They'd be paying the remainder of the contracts to whoever is let go surely? This is a terrible situation.

 

[eleven]

It is clear what I am talking about.

The sport has a long history of teams giving riders and staff advanced notice when a team folds and their jobs for the next year will not be around. The rare times that a team folds late in the year the managers are always called out. To pretend that the condemnation for these types of actions are reserved for Brunyeel is absurd.

Some may babble about bias but the fact is if this merger happens there will likely be dozens of riders and staff out of work next year and this appears to not concern Becca, Brunyeel, or their sycophants.

Well, the choices were pretty much: RadioShack Trek with Leopard, wherein 20 riders lose their jobs. Or Radioshack-Trek with Leopard, whereby fewer lose their jobs.

Which would you prefer, RR?

And to pretend you're not condemning these actions because Bruyneel is involved is absurd. That's why you didn't bother to mention Becca the first time you posted it. Don't kid yourself, your bias is not well hidden.

 

[Race Radio]

Well, the choices were pretty much: RadioShack Trek with Leopard, wherein 20 riders lose their jobs. Or Radioshack-Trek with Leopard, whereby fewer lose their jobs.

Which would you prefer, RR?

And to pretend you're not condemning these actions because Bruyneel is involved is absurd. That's why you didn't bother to mention Becca the first time you posted it. Don't kid yourself, your bias is not well hidden.

Don't kid yourself, the only reason you are defending this mess is because Brunyeel is involved.

 

[eleven]

They'd be paying the remainder of the contracts to whoever is let go surely? This is a terrible situation.

My understanding is that except for contracts with escape clauses for ownership (which are probably numerous among the lesser riders), the team is responsible for the difference between any new contract and the one being voided.

 

[Race Radio]

it's public knowledge that RS and Nissan are carrying over.

Really?

Funny, Radioshack never issued a press release that they were continuing their sponsorship

http://media.radioshackcorporation.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=242236&p=irol-news&nyo=0

 

[eleven]

Don't kid yourself, the only reason you are defending this mess is because Brunyeel is involved.

"Defending the mess"? All I've done is explain how absurd it is to blame Bruyneel for acting in the best interest of his sponsors, or to assign ill will to the decision.

 

[eleven]

Really?

Funny, Radioshack never issued a press release that they were continuing their sponsorship

http://media.radioshackcorporation.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=242236&p=irol-news&nyo=0

OK then....

 

[El Oso]

If this goes ahead, what is the future of the Trek Livestrong Under 23 team? Would that continue?

I don't see any reason why this would affect the U23 team unless they tried to use it to transfer some of the riders, which is what I believe happened with the Garmin-Cervelo merge.

 

[Race Radio]

"Defending the mess"? All I've done is explain how absurd it is to blame Bruyneel for acting in the best interest of his sponsors, or to assign ill will to the decision.

You are assuming that is the case, just like you are assuming that Leopard would have folded. There is no indication to support either assumption.

All I have done is point out that Johan and Becca appear to have ignored the fact that by waiting till so late in the season to make an announcement (something they have yet to do) that their employee's livelihood is in jeopardy. So far the riders and staff or both teams show no indication of knowing what is going on.

 

[eleven]

You are assuming that is the case, just like you are assuming that Leopard would have folded. There is no indication to support either assumption.

Correction: you are not aware of any indication to support it.

All I have done is point out that Johan and Becca appear to have ignored the fact that by waiting till so late in the season to make an announcement (something they have yet to do) that their employee's livelihood is in jeopardy. So far the riders and staff or both teams show no indication of knowing what is going on.

So far, the two have acted in the best interest of their sponsors. Doing anything less would simply put both the sponsors and riders in jeopardy.

 

[Race Radio]

Correction: you are not aware of any indication to support it.

Are you? You have not presented any yet.

So far, the two have acted in the best interest of their sponsors. Doing anything less would simply put both the sponsors and riders in jeopardy.

Your assumption. Who do you think is happier with this combo, Mercedes (Leopard's sponsor) or Nissan (RS' sponsor)?

Burning bridges like Johan has done for a decade catches up with you. Ask Cyrille Guimard, one of the greatest D.S.' in history how he likes running an amateur team

 

[Polish]

Well Contador doesnt seem to like the idea of the schlecks learning tactics.

So maybe Alberto will change his mind and decide toride the Giro again?

And August is the normal time to wheel and deal and get rider contracts in order for the folowing year.

Or maybe start in July during the Tour if you are sneaky.
Bang Bang.

 

[luckyboy]

Is the Hog going to teach them to time trial as well?

 

[eleven]

Are you?

Yes.

Your assumption. Who do you think is happier with this combo, Mercedes (Leopard's sponsor) or Nissan (RS' sponsor)?

Nissan.

 

[Race Radio]

Nissan.

Got it, "Best interest of sponsors" does not include Mercedes. You are OK with screwing sponsors as long as they are not Brunyeel sponsors.

Somebody better tell Cancellera he needs to give back the SLS and start driving a Nissan Leaf.

http://youtu.be/rb-Qao0va4c

Is it OK to screw Craft as well or will their "Best interests" Be taken care of?

 

[autologous]

The best thing that could happen is that a bunch of the folks that were so quick to bail from Riis' sinking ship late last season are left high and dry. Hope Bjarne has a good laugh at their expense. Of course that lying little pr*ck Ogrady got out ahead of it, but Greenedge is gonna suck anyway. Karma is a b*tch. Just ask that whiny soon-to-be-hasbeen spartacus.

 

[Coz Boogie]

A few observations from a long time lurker.

1. Take the off topic discussion regarding your dislike for LA, JB, et al to an Off-Topic Thread. As someone who doesn't frequent the forum very much y'all sound like a bunch whining kids. It doesn't promote a welcoming environment to other members and guests. Now with that out of the way....

2. Regarding a possible merger. The business of cycling it to make money for sponsors. Anyone involved in any sort of business knows that your fortunes can change at any moment and that there is a need to be flexible. With that comes the potential that people will lose their jobs. That's just a fact of life and a fact of business. And every rider knows that. And if they don't then they're ignorant.

3. This potential merger is quite interesting...imagine the team dynamics if JB could create 2 to 3 squads of "Super Teams" that could be riding at any given time. There could be a Frank led team...an Andy led team, etc. I don't see RS/LT diminishing their focus on the Classics. Not with so many high profiled riders on the team...they'd need to be riding almost every week to keep their name and pictures in the press to keep the income coming in.

And regarding potentially displaced riders....the cycling world has seen an increase in the caliper of teams and riders. Remember when BMC was Pro Continental ? And really, had y'all ever heard of Vacansoleil before this spring? Even the Pro Continental and and Continental teams are still quality teams that are always looking to pick up riders.

Just a few quick thoughts.

late,
Coz

 

[Dr. Maserati]

"Defending the mess"? All I've done is explain how absurd it is to blame Bruyneel for acting in the best interest of his sponsors, or to assign ill will to the decision.

Whats absurd is that you think Bruyneel should act in the "best interest of his sponsors" - he should be acting in the best interest of his team.

It seems that JB (like Leopard) don't have the sponsors lined up that can support their teams, so I cant see that as acting in anyone's best interests.
It is a mess for both teams, the riders and ultimately the sport.

 

[eleven]

Whats absurd is that you think Bruyneel should act in the "best interest of his sponsors" - he should be acting in the best interest of his team.

Those two are the same. Acting in the best interest of the sponsors is the only way to get funding to act in the interest of riders.

It seems that JB (like Leopard) don't have the sponsors lined up that can support their teams, so I cant see that as acting in anyone's best interests.
It is a mess for both teams, the riders and ultimately the sport.

So Bob Stapleton wasn't acting in the best interest of his team?

 

[Race Radio]

A few observations from a long time lurker.

2. Regarding a possible merger. The business of cycling it to make money for sponsors. Anyone involved in any sort of business knows that your fortunes can change at any moment and that there is a need to be flexible. With that comes the potential that people will lose their jobs. That's just a fact of life and a fact of business. And every rider knows that. And if they don't then they're ignorant.

So if Becca or Johan break a rider or sponsor contract it is no problem? The rider is just being "Ignorant" if they complain and should be more "Flexible"? Mercedes knew there was the potential that they would be driving Nissan's when they signed the deal?