Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[DominicDecoco]

Nicki's team mates were only of value on paper as they slept during the race. If not mistaken, one of the GML domestiques also passed Fuglsang.

You are not going to convince me that they were as good as having none helpers to the race. That would just be silly.

It's important to point out that I'm not calling a flop, but just pointing out that his performance now and during Tour de Suisse has been on the level where he can't claim to be more deserving of a spot on the TdF roster than those riders which were picked. Yes Popo is no captain, but is Fuglsang a bottleboy?

Never said that Jakob should be picked as a captain role. Of course he shouldn't. Frank has jus shown who's the one to ride for a week ago in Suisse.

 

[ciranda]

Nicki's team mates were only of value on paper as they slept during the race. If not mistaken, one of the GML domestiques also passed Fuglsang.



GML I think (Glud & Mastrand LRÖ).

It's important to point out that I'm not calling a flop, but just pointing out that his performance now and during Tour de Suisse has been on the level where he can't claim to be more deserving of a spot on the TdF roster than those riders which were picked. Yes Popo is no captain, but is Fuglsang a bottleboy?
Had Fuglsang been riding on a lesser team like (the current) Saxo, then he would automatically been on the TdF team and perhaps even had Haedo replaced with some personal domestiques.

I think you should start watching races from time to time. That is not meant as an insult, just that your comments suggest lack of understanding about what goes on.

Fuglsang was in every attack, and often started attacking himself, all through the race. Saying Saxo's riders were sleeping is insulting and wrong. Vinther, Juul-Jensen, Christensen, Mørkøv, Aaen all did good work for the leaders plain for all to see in the broadcast. Saxo were good but Glud & Marstrand were better. The fact that you don't know who Michael Valgren is is not a good look either.

As far I understand what you're saying about Tour de Suisse, you're blaming Fuglsang for not following Frank Schleck when he attacked on the last stage. When no one could folllow. And the reason that Schleck was looking behind on the descent was that he was waiting for Fuglsang to come back, alone with no on else, and help him. That does not make sense whatsoever. Kim Andersen was not the director in the race by the way.

He was tenth on stage eight, twenty seconds after Gesink's group, after shredding the group of favorites for Schleck. Obviously he could do well in the TDF. Physical condtion does not appear to be the reason for his non-selection, insted it seems to be a choice founded on some internal politics, maybe to do with Bruyneel's conflict with Frank Schleck.

 

[OctaBech]

I think you should start watching races from time to time. That is not meant as an insult, just that your comments suggest lack of understanding about what goes on.

Fuglsang was in every attack, and often started attacking himself, all through the race. Saying Saxo's riders were sleeping is insulting and wrong. Vinther, Juul-Jensen, Christensen, Mørkøv, Aaen all did good work for the leaders plain for all to see in the broadcast. Saxo were good but Glud & Marstrand were better. The fact that you don't know who Michael Valgren is is not a good look either.

As far I understand what you're saying about Tour de Suisse, you're blaming Fuglsang for not following Frank Schleck when he attacked on the last stage. When no one could folllow. And the reason that Schleck was looking behind on the descent was that he was waiting for Fuglsang to come back, alone with no on else, and help him. That does not make sense whatsoever. Kim Andersen was not the director in the race by the way.

He was tenth on stage eight, twenty seconds after Gesink's group, after shredding the group of favorites for Schleck. Obviously he could do well in the TDF. Physical condtion does not appear to be the reason for his non-selection, insted it seems to be a choice founded on some internal politics, maybe to do with Bruyneel's conflict with Frank Schleck.

Oh yes you meant as an insult. I am not alone about stating the Saxo guys were sleeping, that's pretty much Riis' own words. BTW, why do I not know Valgren? Because I do not mention him by name on an English forum? Don't be daft.

I honestly thought Kim A. was the director as it pretty much looked like one of his moves, sorry about that, but it doesn't change that the attack either was headless or the team had expected to gain 11sec from it. Now I must ask you to use your head (yes I can be rude too), because it was not about catching a Fränk riding at full pace but about dropping the yellow jersey with 11sec and join up with Fränk on the descent, a major difference.

Also spare me your silly tinfoil hat logic, other Leopard riders were selected for the TdF team, which kills your inner politics argument. Fact is that Fuglsang does not have a history of brilliance in the mountains and he didn't show during Tour de Suisse that it would be any difference coming TdF. The Danish championship supports JB decision more than your claim that Fuglsang should have been on the TdF team.

If you consider responding, at least put some logic into your argument why Fuglsang should be on the TdF team instead of making unfounded excuses about politics.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Oh yes you meant as an insult. I am not alone about stating the Saxo guys were sleeping, that's pretty much Riis' own words.

No, he didn't.He actually said to exact opposite. He said Chris Anker was working too hard when things got decisive. You do know that Saxo had 9 riders in the race, right? Keeping riders of out the wind, picking up bottles - you know, stuff that the less 'important' riders do for the more 'important' riders on the team.

Like Bjarne would go out and say his whole team slept and did f*** all. Yep, yep...

How about actually acknowledging that someone, ciranda, watched what the hell happend in the race. "Fuglsang was in every attack, and often started attacking himself, all through the race" - that would be a little hint.. But you seemed to ignore that as well.

Also spare me your silly tinfoil hat logic, other Leopard riders were selected for the TdF team, which kills your inner politics argument. Fact is that Fuglsang does not have a history of brilliance in the mountains and he didn't show during Tour de Suisse that it would be any difference coming TdF

Oh, I love how just keep ignoring anything that would possibly tell a different story than your own. 'No history of brilliance in the mountains' - Go watch him climb in Dauphine. And I've already, several times, tried to explain to you that he was exellent in stage 8. One of the best in a group that was already down to a minimum before he started pacing. Since that doesn't really fit into your idea of how his current form and abilities are, you focus on stage 9 and start talking about Sky-trains and catching up with Frank which didn't make sense from the first time you wrote it.

 

[Cimber]

I thought this was the RSNT thread and not the Danish national championship thread

 

[BillytheKid]

Chris Horner's just posted a blog on his early season which he rode mostly injured and ill. Better luck in the year to come Chris.

http://www.cascadegranfondo.com/blog/looking-back-and-forward-tour

 

[ciranda]

Oh yes you meant as an insult.

I don't understand what you mean about the last stage of the Tour de Suisse. Frank Schleck attacks on the second last mountain, a hard one. Nobody can follow him. On the descent he realizes he can't hold the advantage to the finish. He probably would have liked a couple guys with him to build an advantage to Costa. Whatever, the attack was pretty hard, there was a long way to go and the others were all together. It would have been great if Fuglsang could have followed Schleck, but then Schleck was the strongest guy in the mountains in the race. What was Fuglsang supposed to have done?

What did Bruyneel tell you was the reason for not taking him?

Clearly something else than condition factors. In the Tour de Suisse he was good in all stages except for the last stage where he let the group of favorites and took it easy or had let the group of favorites go and took it easy. So, was the only bad day in the the race his real level of form and his real ability? You say that it is and that is the reason the team chose not to take him. Ok, but how could he have done well the other days? Also, he won the Danish Time Trial Championship and the Tour of Luxembourg.

Like dude says above he is good in the mountains. Also in the Tour de France. Two years ago he worked until 15 riders were left on a couple of stages, last year he had a back injury that blocked him except for the day to Alpe d'Huez where he smashed the first kilometre like Manuel Beltran. In last year's Vuelta he was good in the first two thirds of the race then lost a little in the end. People claim Monfort as much better but the time difference between the two was only 1.37 and Fuglsang had been good since TDS in June.

The list goes on. Facts, results. It's there for all to see, even you.

 

[Kazistuta]

And the saga continues:

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1782604.ece

Fuglsang has been given the message from Johan Bruyneel that he won't compete in any WT races the rest of the season because of his public critique of RadioTrek and public search for a new team.

JB, JB, JB - you're digging your own grave.........

(And yet another example of the downsides of the UCI point system)

 

[Cimber]

And the saga continues:

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1782604.ece

Fuglsang has been given the message from Johan Bruyneel that he won't compete in any WT races the rest of the season because of his public critique of RadioTrek and public search for a new team.

JB, JB, JB - you're digging your own grave.........

(And yet another example of the downsides of the UCI point system)

While the punishment might be a tad harsh, Fuglsang has been way to vocal in the press about criticism and negotiations with other teams. Illoyal one might say. While I dont blame him for thinking the way he does, he probably should have kept most of it to himself

 

[BillytheKid]

I don't understand what you mean about the last stage of the Tour de Suisse. Frank Schleck attacks on the second last mountain, a hard one. Nobody can follow him. On the descent he realizes he can't hold the advantage to the finish. He probably would have liked a couple guys with him to build an advantage to Costa. Whatever, the attack was pretty hard, there was a long way to go and the others were all together. It would have been great if Fuglsang could have followed Schleck, but then Schleck was the strongest guy in the mountains in the race. What was Fuglsang supposed to have done?

What did Bruyneel tell you was the reason for not taking him?

Clearly something else than condition factors. In the Tour de Suisse he was good in all stages except for the last stage where he let the group of favorites and took it easy or had let the group of favorites go and took it easy. So, was the only bad day in the the race his real level of form and his real ability? You say that it is and that is the reason the team chose not to take him. Ok, but how could he have done well the other days? Also, he won the Danish Time Trial Championship and the Tour of Luxembourg.

Like dude says above he is good in the mountains. Also in the Tour de France. Two years ago he worked until 15 riders were left on a couple of stages, last year he had a back injury that blocked him except for the day to Alpe d'Huez where he smashed the first kilometre like Manuel Beltran. In last year's Vuelta he was good in the first two thirds of the race then lost a little in the end. People claim Monfort as much better but the time difference between the two was only 1.37 and Fuglsang had been good since TDS in June.

The list goes on. Facts, results. It's there for all to see, even you.

Your arguments make sense on the basis of performance, but Horner is more of a seasoned domestique than a GC man. (He's only GC inthe shorter stage races with plenty of climbing and uphill finished-the Basque Country)

But I think Horner probably got the support of the Radio Shack sponsor which justifiably would want at least one American on the team.

Plus he actually earned an Olympic position based on qualifying points with the 2nd at TA and top-ten at Pais Vasco with a top three finsh there.

That's another plus for Horner, the US Olympic team and the teammates, Phinney, Farrar, Duggan and Van Garderen. Horner may find it easier to stay at front in postition battles in the peloton. I not saying overt help, but it may be easier in regards to finding a wheel or two at times when it is not as critical before the closing Ks of the race.

Horner is an asset on the uphill. A rested climber arriving in the mountains is an effective one. Politics in many ways went against the capable Fuglsang.

It's done. On with the show.

 

[Sophistic]

 

[BillytheKid]

Self protrait?

 

[learn to ride]

RadioShack-Nissan riders complain to UCI over non-payment of salaries

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...lain-to-UCI-over-non-payment-of-salaries.aspx

 

[thehog]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...lain-to-UCI-over-non-payment-of-salaries.aspx

Such a sad story. Bruyneel is a monster. Sounds like the British AMC team from 1987! I’d be surprised if they get beyond the Tour before folding. Funny how the UCI keeps approving teams like Leopard and Radioshack and teams like Cofidis etc. can’t get ProTour and have been around since year dot.

Question remains; will they last long enough to make it to the Vuleta so Alberto can have Andy for dinner?

 

[BillytheKid]

Such a sad story. Bruyneel is a monster. Sounds like the British AMC team from 1987! I’d be surprised if they get beyond the Tour before folding. Funny how the UCI keeps approving teams like Leopard and Radioshack and teams like Cofidis etc. can’t get ProTour and have been around since year dot.

Question remains; will they last long enough to make it to the Vuleta so Alberto can have Andy for dinner?

I think you have a lot of smoke, but no fire. These are the actions of rumormongers who drive sponsors from the sport. Such people perhaps have no intrest cycling or have other intrests at heart.

Fuglsang sang? He has the right to be disgruntled, but it would not surprise me if he were the source of the pay scandal. Johan might have forgot to put the check in the mail. Jens has got it right, however, certain behavior no matter what the team drama is unporfessional. (And if you have ever played team sports or raced bicycles, whatever the level, there's always drama)

I just want to watch the race. And skip the soap opera.

So long to posting. Goodbye.

 

[cineteq]

I think you have a lot of smoke, but no fire. These are the actions of rumormongers who drive sponsors from the sport. Such people perhaps have no intrest cycling or have other intrests at heart.

Fuglsang sang? He has the right to be disgruntled, but it would not surprise me if he were the source of the pay scandal. Johan might have forgot to put the check in the mail. Jens has got it right, however, certain behavior no matter what the team drama is unporfessional. (And if you have ever played team sports or raced bicycles, whatever the level, there's always drama)

I just want to watch the race. And skip the soap opera.

So long to posting. Goodbye.

Wait! Horner and Voigt say there is no soap opera

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...s-chris-horner-everybodys-professional_226219
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/voi...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

 

[Ramira]

Wait! Horner and Voigt say there is no soap opera

Not sure about Horner, but Voigt is a team man and he'll do whatever is needed to create the right atmosphere for Fränk to put in a good TDF formation. However the Fuglsang debacle shows that there's a lot of issues within the team as he's never been vocal this way before.

As a fan of both the Schlecks (I know there are still some around) and Cancellara (and quite a few of the lesser names, i.e. Voigt, Monfort) I was very worried that something like this would happen. The simple fact is the Leopard team was formed around a group of friends and Bruyneels way of handling riders would have struggled to work with them when he was in his hayday let alone at this point in his career.

Right now I think the best hope for everyone on RNT is that Bruyneel gets indicted and the team is forced to make the decision to either replace him or fold at the end of the year before the tour is over. Clearly this experiment has failed and I just hope they call it quits soon (even though the performances aren't nearly as bad as many think: 2nd in CQ 10th in WT, the main issue is no real victory though the Spartacus injury had a role to play in that).

I'm curious at what will really happen though, as I recall one of the reasons Fuglsang went to Leopard was his friendship with the Schleck brothers and I don't think that changed (and I think the came goes, at least in part for Fabian and the Schlecks). The main issue right now seems to be that Bruyneel has no relationship with any of the big 3, unlike he used to have with Armstrong. I don't think his style has any chance of working unless the big riders actually support him and he's in conflict with them as well. If I'm really honest I see both the Schlecks and Spartacus leaving at the end of the year as well as Fuglsang (though the wish might be farther of the thought here).

 

[Cimber]

Horner and Klödi enemies?

Apparently Horner and Klöden despise eachother. After Horners initial non-selection Klöden commented on this on twitter writing something along "u have to do races to do the tour" obviously aimed at Horner. At the press conference Horner said "there are some ppl u call when they have birthday and there are some people u dont". Interesting part about this conflict is that its between 2 riders of the original Radioshack team.

http://translate.google.com/transla...sporten.dk/cykling/uroen-ulmer-hos-radioshack

 

[Mellow Velo]

I'm amazed that no one so far has drawn a comparison with the Astana wage dispute, in 2009.
So, so similar. Same man in the middle, but on the opposite side of the fence.
I remember that Chris Horner jumped from Bertie's Spanish ship to the Bruyneel and LA camp, mid power struggle.

 

[qwerty16]

Apparently Horner and Klöden despise eachother. After Horners initial non-selection Klöden commented on this on twitter writing something along "u have to do races to do the tour" obviously aimed at Horner. At the press conference Horner said "there are some ppl u call when they have birthday and there are some people u dont". Interesting part about this conflict is that its between 2 riders of the original Radioshack team.

http://translate.google.com/transla...sporten.dk/cykling/uroen-ulmer-hos-radioshack

They were talking during the team presentation yesterday, so I would hardly call that 'not on speaking terms'.

 

[Stingray34]

Now there's problems on the salary front. Three riders unpaid since May.

Becca and Bruyneel...double whammy right there between the Lux and Belg mafias.

 

[Race Radio]

Apparently Horner and Klöden despise eachother. After Horners initial non-selection Klöden commented on this on twitter writing something along "u have to do races to do the tour" obviously aimed at Horner. At the press conference Horner said "there are some ppl u call when they have birthday and there are some people u dont". Interesting part about this conflict is that its between 2 riders of the original Radioshack team.

http://translate.google.com/transla...sporten.dk/cykling/uroen-ulmer-hos-radioshack

They have had issues for a while. It all started with conflicting tactics at a race a couple years ago. I think it Romandie

 

[cineteq]

They have had issues for a while. It all started with conflicting tactics at a race a couple years ago. I think it Romandie

I think you mean last year's Pais Vasco
1. KLÖDEN Andreas RSH 22h12'11"
2. HORNER Chris RSH 47"
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=20074

 

[zigmeister]

3 Riders not paid by Leopark Trek/Radioshack as rumoured.

Haha..ghee, wonder why guys like Frank on the team have been vocal to an extent and not taking much leadership....hard to do when maybe he is one of the guys not paid.

Put another post in the Brunyeel depreciation thread.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-confirms-unpaid-riders-at-radioshack

 

[avanti]

3 Riders not paid by Leopark Trek/Radioshack as rumoured.

Haha..ghee, wonder why guys like Frank on the team have been vocal to an extent and not taking much leadership....hard to do when maybe he is one of the guys not paid.

Put another post in the Brunyeel depreciation thread.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-confirms-unpaid-riders-at-radioshack

The RSNT team is owned by Leopard SA and owned by Mr. Flavio Becca. I imagine that all the riders and staff (including Brunyeel) are employees or contract personnel reporting to Becca. If there are problems then Mr. Becca is the final culprit.