Lloyd Mondory

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Jul 29, 2012
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Since the tour from last year it was obvious that team was real shady, i don't know how that team was viewed before that though
 
May 19, 2010
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If UCI finds another positive among the AG2R riders the team will not only get to read up on the MPCC self suspension rule again, they will also get to say hello to UCI's new rule:

If two Riders and/or other Persons within a Team registered with the UCI are notified within a twelve-month period of an Adverse Analytical Finding for a Prohibited Method or a Prohibited Substance that is not a Specified Substance, or receive notice of an asserted anti-doping rule violation arising from an Adverse Passport Finding or Atypical Passport Finding after a review under Article 7.5 or other asserted anti-doping rule violation as perArticles 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8, 2.9 or 2.10, the Team shall be suspended from participation in any International Event for a period determined by the President of the UCI Disciplinary Commission or a member of the Disciplinary Commission, taking into account all the circumstances of the case. The suspension shall not be less than 15 days and not more than 45 days.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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neineinei said:
If UCI finds another positive among the AG2R riders the team will not only get to read up on the MPCC self suspension rule again, they will also get to say hello to UCI's new rule:
feel sad for mondory.
couldn't resort to cortisone because of mpcc, so had to resort to old school epo. then gets busted for epo, while non-mpcc members beat him at the finish line geared on cortisone.
 
sniper said:
feel sad for mondory.
couldn't resort to cortisone because of mpcc, so had to resort to old school epo. then gets busted for epo, while non-mpcc members beat him at the finish line geared on cortisone.
Is cortisone related to speed? I thought the main benefits were a reduction in swelling, less pain, etc.

EPO seems more directly related to speed/oxygen carrying.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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nayr497 said:
Is cortisone related to speed? I thought the main benefits were a reduction in swelling, less pain, etc.

EPO seems more directly related to speed/oxygen carrying.
of course you are right.

but i seem to notice that many (most?) of the recent positives have been from MPCC members.
which made me speculate, maybe they have to compensate for not being allowed to go on cortisone.
 
sniper said:
of course you are right.

but i seem to notice that many (most?) of the recent positives have been from MPCC members.
which made me speculate, maybe they have to compensate for not being allowed to go on cortisone.
Given that MPCC has a "cooling off" period after detecting low cortisol levels, and the fact that "getting caught" is not actually getting caught, surely EPO is still more risky?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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More Strides than Rides said:
Given that MPCC has a "cooling off" period after detecting low cortisol levels, and the fact that "getting caught" is not actually getting caught, surely EPO is still more risky?
yeah, i think you're right, and/or i was not making sense.

it would be good to concisely summarize the rules wrt cortisone (a) in competition and (b) out of competition, and how the rules for MPCC members differ from rules for other teams.
I'll look it up later, or maybe somebody is in the know?
 
For WADA rules:

In competition:

S9. GLUCOCORTICOSTEROIDS
All glucocorticosteroids are prohibited when administered by oral, intravenous, intramuscular or rectal routes.

OOC:
None


For cycling specifically OOC injections could fall foul of the 'no needle' rule

For the MPCC:
IX MEDICAL:
TUE must be validated by the physician in charge of the team.
It is mandatory for any racer who, due to his health condition, may need a cortisone treatment given systemically via oral, rectal, intramuscular or intraveinous administration to be prescribed a sick leave
and a competition leave for a minimum of 8 days.

It is mandatory for such cortisone treatments given systemically as reminded above to be validated by the
physician in charge of the team.
Competition participation will resume, subject to a cortisol levels control yielding normal results

Cortico?d infiltrations, which do not require AUT, will imperatively be validated by the physician in charge of the team, who will imperatively prescribe a minimum of 8 days of sick leave and competition leave, as
well as a cortisol levels control.
In case of unusually low cortisol levels, competition will resume after an additional 8 day rest minimum, and back to normal cortisol levels.

MPCC is much stricter on cortisone than WADA.
 
As an example of the vast gulf between them.

I have a sore knee, and go to the docs and get a cortisone shot. Under WADA rules I can run/ride/play whatever immediately.

Under MPCC, that means 8 days 'off' certainly away from competition, but its supposed to be rest/sick leave.
 
sniper said:
yeah, i think you're right, and/or i was not making sense.

it would be good to concisely summarize the rules wrt cortisone (a) in competition and (b) out of competition, and how the rules for MPCC members differ from rules for other teams.
I'll look it up later, or maybe somebody is in the know?
As far as I know, according to WADA, cortisone is okay to use up to 10 days before competition (and during).

From http://www.globaldro.com/us-en/

Ingredient: Cortisone
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Other Names Cortisone acetate

Reference Number Nation of Purchase
03150014177 United States
Date and Time of Search Sport
Wednesday, March 11, 2015 5:13 PM (UTC) Cycling
Status
Ingredient Route of Administration In-Competition Out-of-Competition
Cortisone Injection - Intra-muscular Prohibited Not Prohibited
Cortisone Injection - Intravenous * Prohibited Not Prohibited
Cortisone Injection - Local or Intra-Articular Not Prohibited Not Prohibited
Cortisone Ophthalmic Not Prohibited Not Prohibited
Cortisone Oral Prohibited Not Prohibited
Cortisone Otic Not Prohibited Not Prohibited
Cortisone Rectal Prohibited Not Prohibited
Cortisone Topical (dermatological) Not Prohibited Not Prohibited

Or, the langauge from the prohibited list:

All glucocorticoids are prohibited when administered by oral, intravenous, intramuscular or rectal routes.
. So no TUE required for every other method. (above Table pasted poorly...)


...
MPCC's health check's are random, just like OOC tests.

ntra-articular corticosteroid injections have to be validated by the team doctor, who will prescribe eight days off-race
and

n the event of collapsing cortisol levels, eight rest days are to be prescribed (waiting for normal blood tests results)
From http://www.mpcc.fr/index.php/en/mpcc-uk and a more detailed pdf here: http://www.mpcc.fr/images/ReglementMpcc2015EN.pdf

Not sure who/how to determine elevated or normal levels, though.
 
nayr497 said:
Is cortisone related to speed? I thought the main benefits were a reduction in swelling, less pain, etc.

EPO seems more directly related to speed/oxygen carrying.
Cortisone is not speed.

But, cortisone is a Performance Enhancing Drug.

Cortisone (a Glucocorticoid) can provide neurostimulatory, analgesic and metabolic enhancement.

Perform better, with increased pain and fatigue thresholds.

GCs, however, do not appear to increase VO2max or maximum heart rate.

The studies that have been conducted* (Google is your friend, and a good summary is found in the paper "Evidence on Ergogenic Action of Glucocotricoids as a Doping Agent Risk") in humans with GCs such as hydrocortisone and prednisolone, prednisone, dexamathasone, adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH/Synacthen), etc., along with studies on rats have confirmed the above.

Adverse effects include osteoporosis, insulin resistance, hypertension and artherosclerosis, along with muscle wasting and weakness notably involving Type IIb muscle fibers with Type I least affected.

Of course, if you are trying to increase your portion of slow twitch, that cloud might have a silver lining of sorts.

*Studies on humans utilizing dosages above physiological ranges, but in ranges that dopers might utilize, are limited for obvious ethical reasons

Dave.
 
Thanks for all of the interesting information.

One of my dogs is on prednisone, she has Addison's Disease. She can run forever but it really ups her food drive. Then again...she's a hunting dog so she could run forever without assistance;)
 
armchairclimber said:
I like the reaction of Bardet.
I read his reaction in l'Equipe and didn't know what to make of it. The first part sounded good to my ears, then he sang the "few bad apples" tune and he lost me.

Through this entire affair, I feel that they (Lavenu and the riders) are Oscar winning level liars, or clueless, or (and it is more likely) they were looking the other way, burying their heads in the sand so they wouldn't see. Pathetic.

And many, starting with the French cycling fans, are now looking at AG2R's great '14 TdF in a very different light.
 
Tonton said:
And many, starting with the French cycling fans, are now looking at AG2R's great '14 TdF in a very different light.
pas moi.

not for a second.

imagine anything like this coming from astana or tinkov? lol!!

makes me believe in more in AG2R and french cycling and less (if possible) of teams like astana and tinkov.

anyone check out nibali and cancellera's responses to the CIRC. might as well have been holding up posters for omerta and doping.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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Big Doopie said:
anyone check out nibali and cancellera's responses to the CIRC. might as well have been holding up posters for omerta and doping.
OT, but damn did Cancellara's response annoy me. "My entire profession has been described as a criminal enterprise, but you except me to pay attention?"
Dooooche
 
Oct 16, 2010
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much obliged, @Catwhoorg and @Morestridesthanrides.

posted by Catwhoorg

As an example of the vast gulf between them.

I have a sore knee, and go to the docs and get a cortisone shot. Under WADA rules I can run/ride/play whatever immediately.

Under MPCC, that means 8 days 'off' certainly away from competition, but its supposed to be rest/sick leave.
good example, cheers.

so if MPCC members want to shoot up on cortisone in (or shortly prior to) competition, they have to find a way to mask the cortisone.

non-MPCC members only have to get hold of a TUE.
 
Mar 12, 2010
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Re:

sniper wrote:
> much obliged, @Catwhoorg and @Morestridesthanrides.
>
>
posted by Catwhoorg
>
> As an example of the vast gulf between them.
>
> I have a sore knee, and go to the docs and get a cortisone shot. Under WADA
> rules I can run/ride/play whatever immediately.
>
> Under MPCC, that means 8 days 'off' certainly away from competition, but
> its supposed to be rest/sick leave.
good example, cheers.
>
> so if MPCC members want to shoot up on cortisone in (or shortly prior to)
> competition, they have to find a way to mask the cortisone.
>
> non-MPCC members only have to get hold of a TUE.

No, the 8 day rule applies across cycling to non mpcc members and mpcc members

the only thing the MPCC do is check riders cortisol levels "in competition"
 
Re:

Big Doopie said:
Tonton said:
And many, starting with the French cycling fans, are now looking at AG2R's great '14 TdF in a very different light.
pas moi.

not for a second.

imagine anything like this coming from astana or tinkov? lol!!

makes me believe in more in AG2R and french cycling and less (if possible) of teams like astana and tinkov.

anyone check out nibali and cancellera's responses to the CIRC. might as well have been holding up posters for omerta and doping.
Je ne suis pas d'accord du tout. Lavenu's reaction was not something Vino or Oleg would do, I give you that. It was more Virenquesque, with crocodiles tears and drama: O rage, O desespoir...but Bardet's reaction had some taste of Nibbles elements, the "few bad apples" tune as I called it.

I don't see how you would believe in AG2R MORE now that the merde hit the ventilateur :)

I don't know why you mention French cycling either. I still believe in Pinot, who released some data, made a commendable step in the right direction, but Voekler/Rolland/Europcar? How are the knees doing these days? Bad I hope, so they can "rest" and come back stronger than ever. Like it or not (and I don't like it a bit), but it really brings suspicions about the team. The entire team.
 

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