Re: Re:
King Boonen said:
froze said:
King Boonen said:
froze said:
...however S steel would also be the most expensive and the heaviest of the two...
953 frames are generally lighter than titanium frames that use the standard 3AL-2.5V titanium tubing most builders use. For example a Van Nic Astraeus 54cm frame comes in at 1.77kg while the Genesis 953 Volare was 1.65kg.
Typically that's not the case, most TI frames are lighter than most Stainless frames, but there are exceptions, almost everyone thinks that non stainless steel is the heaviest material to build a bike out of, and normally that's true, but Rodriguez Outlaw is made of steel and weighs just 13.5 pounds...that's lighter than a large percentage of carbon fiber bikes on the market and yet in general CF is the lightest material to make a bike out of.
For example Litespeed T1sL is only 1.05kg. So it depends on the manufacture who specs the material as to how thin they want to make the walls, also some manufacturers will quote their medium size frames weights for publication while others will quote their smallest.
I don't know why you've decided to speak in generalities when I was pretty specific in stating 953 steel. You claimed SS was the most expensive and the heaviest, I was simply pointing out that this is wrong. You're likely wrong about price too. you can get a 953 frame from Saffron for a base price of £1975. To get a Ti frame of a similar weight to that you'll need to pay for something like the Lynskey Helix Pro which £2700.
That Litespeed uses an AL6-4V top tube, possibly other tubes in this material as well to reduce the weight, but few others do. The Lynskey Helix pro uses 6-4 tubing, possibly even for the downtube and I think that comes in around 1.2kg, although I have a friend who bought a Helix frame a couple of years back and it was considerably heavier than expected.
There is no thinking about whether non-stainless steel is the heaviest material, it is.
Non stainless isn't necessarily the heaviest material, I already pointed that out with the Rodriguez Outlaw.
In general TI will be lighter than S Steel, sure you can have a steel tube drawn thin like the Rodriguez but the cost is very high, the same can be done with S Steel and TI; even CF you can have large variable in weights from 19 pounds down. Even Strong says that TI in general will be lighter than steels, see:http://www.strongframes.com/tubing-information/; in addition frame builders at Enigma, Roberts and IF said these things in agreement:
- Yes, a stainless steel frame will end up being marginally lighter than a non-stainless equivalent but it will still be heavier than almost all titanium frames and definitely all carbon frames.
- They are generally made to be stiffer, but that's because they are made that way, not because of an inherent improvement in the material's behaviour.
- The ride quality tends to be harsher than regular steel as a result of the above.
- The longevity of the frame can also be impaired as a result of the design parameters of the frame.
- If you still want a metal frame rather than carbon, then titanium is far superior in almost every respect; it can be as stiff, lighter and longer lasting than the best stainless steel equivalents.
- That said, there is something incredibly alluring about the stainless option and if you want steel, because you like the aesthetics and the image, then stainless is a great option (but you might be far better off with a regular steel frame for 50% less price).
Me here; I'm not sure if I agree with the last two paragraphs of what they said but they're the experts so...
Any company that builds a product that builds from both stainless and titanium will tell you that not only is titanium stronger but it's also lighter which is why titanium is used more than stainless steel in surgical implants. We can go on and on about this but you need to google this stuff since you don't believe what I've said.