Manzano's testimony confirmed...yet again.

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Jul 9, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
All ribbing aside, I think it's important that people know there is an ignore feature, and how to use it. This helps keep the forum self-policed, and helps keep my inbox from being filled with complaints about posts and members.
Starting to figure out that being made a moderator was no favor at all?
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
...

My understanding is that because he's always drawn a lot of attention, even after his suspension he was both very popular, and unpopular in France.

...
kind of like he who must not be named in the U.S.? i think he is not popular among the bicycle intelligentsia here, but how about among the general public in america?

and how about manzano? have any of the revelations about doping (operation puerto, etc.) done anything to help him in the spanish press and public?
 
Deadlift said:
Cadel, Cancellara, Armstrong, Contador....

ALL WINNING, ALL CLEAN, ALL WITH THE FIRE IN THERE BELLYS...
How long are you going to ignore responding to the fact that Lance Armstrong DID test positive to EPO in 1999, during his first Tour de France win.

Your "argument" is completely flawed if you continue to ignore this.
 
Jul 8, 2009
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Deadlift said:
Doping doesn't make a Tour winner. Doping doesn't make an Armstrong. Doping didn't make an Armstrong a Tour winner. I've proved it, EPO doesn't make you a winner.

Does it enhance performance. No. The results are there for all to see.

Forget lab tests, graphs, throwing guinea pigs on exercise bikes to see what happens, what it feels like etc, I'm talking about history, results, performances, out there in the Tours in the thick of it.

It took Riis around 5 years? to win the Tour. Ohh wait a minute, it takes 5 years for EPO to take effect.

Take a walk.

You keep saying you've prooved it. But nothing you've written so far has been backed up.
The reason why Riis didn't peform well after 96, was because of the 50% HCT limit which was put in place in 97. This meant he no longer could go as high as he did in 96.
Furthermore, the reason why he was so successfull in 96, was that he was much thinner than the previous years, and probably had a higher HCT as well - along with more focused training than the previous years.
Riis was a great rider, and improved throughout the years with a peak in 96.



Please explain, from a physiological standpoint, why doping should worsen performance?
Nothing you have said so far leads me to think that those "honked on EPO" get worse with time. And what proof do you have that those you claim to be clean, are actually clean?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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the thing is it's usually only the token domestique who gets done for EPO these days anyway. The top riders aren't just on EPO they have far more than that leading to a belief that EPO doesn't do much.

You only had to watch Sella or Ricco on CERA to see the affects plain as day
 
Jul 24, 2009
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Deadlift said:
I want all the upcoming juniors who go on to turn professional to remember, if your going to start honking EPO/HGH etc, you won't come ahead of a clean Cavendish in the sprint, if your going to start honking EPO/HGH etc, your not going to beat a clean Cancellara in TT, if your going to start honking EPO/HGH etc, your not going to take a clean Contador's crown in the Tour, if your going to start honking EPO/HGH etc, your not going to be as great as Armstrong...

I may end it there... Not sure... History proves riders who took EPO didn't see success straight away in competetion nor did they ever stay on top when honked up against clean riders, but performances actually faultered, went backwards under the influence... Maybe a rider needs to dope for a decade before we see any viable results in the big events, not sure. Credibility factor over the long term usage of EPO in terms of consistant performances in the big events?. Not good. Maybe the hunger factor of reaching the top, the been there, done that, were probably bigger factors than doping in succeding & faultering at the highest level shown to be the case by so many of the top riders who doped...
I think you're really attacking a straw-man there, my friend. I'm confident in saying that everybody is aware that EPO, or any other ped for that matter, is not the sole factor in becoming a great tour rider or any kind of elite athlete. Natural talent obviously plays a part as well, and disentangling how naturally good riders are apart from their dopage is one of the most difficult, almost impossible, things to work out. There is simply no way to knowing how good Armstrong would be if he had never used peds, for example. In any case, these are different questions than "do they dope?"... yes they do. ANd someone like yourself would need to ask why so many cyclists (just looking at proven dopers) would bother risking long bans if the effects of epo are as negligible as you claim. Are you sure you've really thought your position through?
 
Jul 19, 2009
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gregod said:
cool. thanks for the information. i'll try to check it out on youtube.

a question about virenque's popularity; i seem to recall that he was the housewives' favorite. I think it was this group that his "admission" did not have much impact. Is this correct?
Yes, Virenque was more housewives favorites than "male" who saw him as a rival.

His muppet, after a long time, helped him to regain a bit of sympathy, but that was a long process. People have forgave his doping, he was doing what others were doing too, but it's more difficult for his lies.
 
Deadlift said:
Maybe you can go ask the Kelme-Costa Blanca team, maybe they will tell you what this crap did for there potentials & performances in the Tours, Classics???.. Suddenly they were beating everyone under the sun. Right?. WRONG. Doping doesn't work.

Live & let die.
The Vuelta is a grand tour, right? The one that the Spanish want to win?

So, we have Roberto Heras and Aitor Gonzalez winning the title and Oscar Sevilla on the podium, between 2000 and 2002.
All 3 have two things in common. Doping infractions and riding for Kelme at the time.

Deadduck, Deadloss, Deadweight.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Deadlift said:
Can't argue no more, the mods are deleting my posts.
You were not arguing anyway, you were trolling. You were proved wrong repeatedly yet continued with your game.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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cineteq said:
Operación Puerto: Manzano confirms Fuentes's working methods.
"San Isidro is the Giro, San Fermín is the TdF"
http://www.marca.com/2013/01/29/ciclismo/1359475804.html

Sorry, I don't have an English transcript for this. :(
very interesting, thanks

He swallows his consonants making him difficult to understand, but calls Indurain's declarations shameful, hypocrit, Indurain should better shut up, he says. He adds 1+1 wrt Pereiro and Contador ("got the same que jaksche"), and also calls AC's contaminated meat story a bull**** excuse. Says clenbuterol is very common and makes hair fall out.

Manzano has not been silenced.
 
Dec 21, 2010
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sniper said:
very interesting, thanks

He swallows his consonants making him difficult to understand, but calls Indurain's declarations shameful, hypocrit, Indurain should better shut up, he says. He adds 1+1 wrt Pereiro and Contador ("got the same que jaksche"), and also calls AC's contaminated meat story a bull**** excuse. Says clenbuterol is very common and makes hair fall out.

Manzano has not been silenced.
I will keep an eye on the news now that the Fuentes' trial has started here in Madrid, I understand that Manzano will be a "hostile witness"..... Perhaps I should use some of my time "sans-employment" to go downtown and sit in on the court hearing.......
 
blackcat said:
one would have thought so. But Arnie Governator did ok, even with the revelation.

If he runs for the Dems, the GOP dirty tricks dep't is gonna be in full swing. But all their work is basically done for them. Trawl forums, read Walsh, and speak to a few skanks around Austin.
The Governator reference is interesting. You may or may not recall one of his conquests telling all during the first election attempt. It got no media traction. Presumably because the Governator-to-be was percieved as powerful. And he was! Entertainment industry money-maker, married to American Royalty, and so on.

Wonderboy has lost that perception of power. The Austin conquests would be sufficient to shut down an election for most seats. There's quite a few CongressCritters with shady pasts. But, they can't go national. Best case scenario, a marginalized politician like a Ron Paul.

It seems the Spanish have longer to go yet to give Manzano the respect he's earned.
 

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