Manzano's testimony confirmed...yet again.

Just good to follow up. So often happens that the whistleblowers and boat rockers are attacked. Good to be reminded that what they are saying is so often 100% true. All the more so in cycling.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/viru-investigation-turns-up-kelme-documents

AS claims that these plans are exactly the same as those that former Kelme rider Jesús Manzano showed to the Spanish cycling federation and police investigators back in 2004 when Manzano alleged systematic doping had taken place within that team.

At that time Manzano alleged that a variety of what appeared to be code words within the plans referred to use of Russian EPO, human growth hormone and nandrolone.
The whistleblowers in cycling invariably end their own careers and suffer the slings and arrows of the apologists and bullies. But they're almost without exception telling the truth.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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if this was 1998 and Festina was Astana, Armstrong's career is dead, and potentially his political career prevented (or stunted at the very least).

US meedja is hopeless.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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blackcat said:
if this was 1998 and Festina was Astana, Armstrong's career is dead, and potentially his political career prevented (or stunted at the very least).
Please let his political career not be stunted before it starts. I want him to be dumb enough to go into politics.

The way things go in politics, his "secret" would be outed in three seconds by far bigger powers.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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issoisso said:
Please let his political career not be stunted before it starts. I want him to be dumb enough to go into politics.

The way things go in politics, his "secret" would be outed in three seconds by far bigger powers.
one would have thought so. But Arnie Governator did ok, even with the revelation.

If he runs for the Dems, the GOP dirty tricks dep't is gonna be in full swing. But all their work is basically done for them. Trawl forums, read Walsh, and speak to a few skanks around Austin.
 
May 10, 2009
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issoisso said:
Please let his political career not be stunted before it starts. I want him to be dumb enough to go into politics.

The way things go in politics, his "secret" would be outed in three seconds by far bigger powers.
I've thought this also. He would get decimated.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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blackcat said:
one would have thought so. But Arnie Governator did ok, even with the revelation.

If he runs for the Dems, the GOP dirty tricks dep't is gonna be in full swing. But all their work is basically done for them. Trawl forums, read Walsh, and speak to a few skanks around Austin.
Do you think I care whether his political career flounders or succeeds? I couldn't give a toss :p

I just want it to finally be out in the open as everyone's knowledge that he dopes instead of just being "known" by people who know cycling and have at least one half of a functional brain.
 

Deadlift

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issoisso said:
I just want it to finally be out in the open as everyone's knowledge that he dopes instead of just being "known" by people who know cycling and have at least one half of a functional brain.
Why would he dope??. History states when riders doped there performances have suffered.

When Riis was honked up to the eyeballs on EPO in '97, 30 minutes down on a clean Ullrich, Armstrong was thinking 'wait a minute'..... Do I need to dope???...

Maybe your just using allegations?, or hating?, finding excuses?, sorry EPO doesn't make a Tour winner, nor are we seeing it improve performances over clean riders.

History proves me right...
 
As the OP, I'd appreciate it if the off-topic stuff stopped. The topic of this thread is (IMO, mods be the judge) one or all of the following:

• Manzano
• Whistleblowers
• Kelme
• team-wide doping programs

There may be others. The topic is decidedly not:

• Lance
• Idiotic, unsupported theories of what kinds of dope do or don't work.

Your help is appreciated.
 

Deadlift

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red_flanders said:
As the OP, I'd appreciate it if the off-topic stuff stopped. The topic of this thread is (IMO, mods be the judge) one or all of the following:

• Manzano
• Whistleblowers
• Kelme
• team-wide doping programs

There may be others. The topic is decidedly not:

• Lance
• Idiotic, unsupported theories of what kinds of dope do or don't work.

Your help is appreciated.
Errr sorry, My theories are supported, supported by history, everyone else is allegating... Trying to find out what it could be that makes Lance tick & being so ignorant that they can't open there eyes & see the bigger picture.
 
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blackcat said:
if this was 1998 and Festina was Astana, Armstrong's career is dead, and potentially his political career prevented (or stunted at the very least).

US meedja is hopeless.
I'm not so sure about this. Look at Richard Virenque. His popularity in France never suffered after his belated admission.
 
Deadlift said:
Why would he dope??. History states when riders doped there performances have suffered.

When Riis was honked up to the eyeballs on EPO in '97, 30 minutes down on a clean Ullrich, Armstrong was thinking 'wait a minute'..... Do I need to dope???...

Maybe your just using allegations?, or hating?, finding excuses?, sorry EPO doesn't make a Tour winner, nor are we seeing it improve performances over clean riders.

History proves me right...
Actually 6 months before that time history states that Lance Armstrong was lying in a hospital bed admitting to having taken all kinds of performance enhancing drugs.
I would also be quite interested in seeing your proof that Ullrich was clean at that time because he has always been one of my favorite riders, but clean? I think maybe, not so much.
 

Deadlift

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Hugh Januss said:
I would also be quite interested in seeing your proof that Ullrich was clean at that time because he has always been one of my favorite riders, but clean? I think maybe, not so much.
A honked up to the eyeballs Riis placed 7th in the '97 Tour. Every rider placed above him was doing as much doping as he was?

Take a walk.
 
A

Anonymous

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red_flanders said:
As the OP, I'd appreciate it if the off-topic stuff stopped. The topic of this thread is (IMO, mods be the judge) one or all of the following:

• Manzano
• Whistleblowers
• Kelme
• team-wide doping programs

There may be others. The topic is decidedly not:

• Lance
• Idiotic, unsupported theories of what kinds of dope do or don't work.

Your help is appreciated.
+1

but you dont really expect people to listen do you.. a threads not a thread unless armstrongs in it
 

Dr. Maserati

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red_flanders said:
Just good to follow up. So often happens that the whistleblowers and boat rockers are attacked. Good to be reminded that what they are saying is so often 100% true. All the more so in cycling.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/viru-investigation-turns-up-kelme-documents



The whistleblowers in cycling invariably end their own careers and suffer the slings and arrows of the apologists and bullies. But they're almost without exception telling the truth.
Here is a good example Red.............from Cyclingnews March 2004.

Eufemiano Fuentes, a doctor who worked with the Kelme team and Jesus Manzano, has denied giving the cyclist any illegal substances. "If Jesus Manzano did these things it was hidden from the team," Fuentes was quoted by El Diario Vasco as saying. "We have no knowledge of what Manzano has said goes on within the team."
 

Deadlift

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Why would Eufemiano Fuentes give a cyclist any illegal substance???. To hinder performance from which we can draw many examples from throughout cycling history????... I don't blame Fuentes, he needs to make a buck, I blame Kelme for being fools into believing the stuff might actually win one of there riders a Tour. & as we all know, it doesn't. Doping doesn't win Tours... Something Armstrong knew from the get go...
 
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I remember Manzano's retirement from the Tour. At the time I was thinking that the he was showing signs of a bad transfusion. What was the dispensation of that incident? Was there a failed dope test or did he just come clean?
 
Deadlift said:
Why would he dope??. History states when riders doped there performances have suffered.

When Riis was honked up to the eyeballs on EPO in '97, 30 minutes down on a clean Ullrich, Armstrong was thinking 'wait a minute'..... Do I need to dope???...

Maybe your just using allegations?, or hating?, finding excuses?, sorry EPO doesn't make a Tour winner, nor are we seeing it improve performances over clean riders.

History proves me right...
Dopers dope and do well. Others dope and things change. Different people respond in different ways. Certain mixes work well (therein Ferrari's high price of service). If one amount worked the same for everyone, then 100 km ride would work the same for everyone. Doesn't. Same with dope, same with other illicit means (blood doping).
 

Deadlift

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Ripper said:
Dopers dope and do well.
History states dopers do crap, keep doping & get even crapper.

Armstrong now, he doesn't want to be crap, so hes not going to dope.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Lets not forget what the UCI said in their statement regarding Manzano.

"Since the beginning of the year, cycling has been the focus of numerous attacks which have severely prejudiced the image of our sport and the honour of its participants," said a UCI statement, quoted in l'Equipe.

Calling Manzano a rider "not beyond reproach," the UCI regretted the continued practice of doping in the peloton but asserted that the majority of riders are clean, citing a figure that blood tests show more than 90% of the peloton to be clean.

"The UCI will react against anyone who tarnishes the image of cycling and the riders," the statement continued, adding that the UCI is prepared to take legal action against "all who, by their actions, do such damage to cycling's image."
 

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