You really need to take the Cav fanboy hat off. No way would Cavendish have been winning as frequently against Kittel at his best. 36 year old Petacchi could still beat Cav on occasion for Gods sake.And that's what I'm saying. Cavendish would have still been dominant against Greipel and Kittel if they were on other teams in his dominant era.
Just like his team refused that year, the race organizers started refusing inviting Cipo because of his antics. If you don't make him Italian, suddenly he has far far less Italian wins. You can't have it both ways.
Dude, I picked that stage cos it's funny. How often do you see that many oldies in a sprint together? I listed all of Cav's rival in the Tour during that time. Put them in whatever order you want, it doesn't change the fact it was a bunch of old guys and a load of average sprinters. A far cry from Cipollini, Abdu & Zabel facing off in their pomp.Getting some serious PTSD from tennis era arguments now. Arguments get entirely circular, not to mention this is some embarrassing cherry picking.
Nadal never beat a multiple RG winner on clay.
Cipollini never won on the champs elysees, not sure he ever even made it that far. Cavendish won 4 in a row.And of course Cipo would not have won as many Giro stages if he had focused on the Tour, but I bet he would have had similar figures to Cav in Tour stages. If people think Cav is the greatest, there is a good case for that, but when I see people saying undisputed or undoubted GOAT, I just think that is nonsense. Cav and Cipo have very similar palmares, except one is skewed toward Tour stages v Giro stages which reflects their respective priorities based on Nationality, teams and respective eras. Also Cipo has 3 Ghent-Wevelgem titles to his name. Flip their respective nationalities/priorities and I bet the results would be similar.
He didn't, wasn't even close. I think stage 10 was the furthest he ever got. It was pathetic.Cipollini never won on the champs elysees, not sure he ever even made it that far. Cavendish won 4 in a row.
And even in cipo times there was more money and prestige in the tour, probably even for italians.
11 sprint stages in one GT is perfectly normal, old school, and as it should be what are you complaining aboutDidn't Cipollini and Petacchi's palmares benefit massively from the Giro organizers inserting a dozen flat stages in the Giros they rode?
Who commented about Cav winning against Old men? 2nd and 3rd on that stage were 34 and 37! And 4th and 5th were Spanish, so really don't count as sprinters.
Didn't Cipollini and Petacchi's palmares benefit massively from the Giro organizers inserting a dozen flat stages in the Giros
I’m late to this subject, but wanted to throw my opinion in there regardless. I always loved Cipo, while Cavendish took my a few years to warm up to. The thing with Cipo is that in the States, we didn’t really even know what the purpose of the green jersey was because we didn’t have coverage of sprint stages until the 1990s. We knew that Sean Kelly won a lot of them, but we didn’t get to see how they were won very often. We had 2 hour weekend shows during the TDF- no Giro coverage.
So a lot of those sprinters were names we read in magazines and nothing more. Everything else was solely focused around LeMond and his rivals. Abdujapourov changed that as well as daily highlights. Cipollini took it to another level. He was the first sprinter that we could root for (or against).
Cavendish, on the other hand, had to win me over. By the time he came onto the scene, Cipollini was gone (albeit his brief return with Rock Racing), and Petacchi was almost as good at his peak. You also had a very likable Robbie McEwan, and Zabel was still hanging around and finishing races (was never a fan). Cavendish had so much hype (Remco levels) and he was cocky that it was easy to hope the big boys knocked him down a peg. After a while though, I came to really admire him as a rider.
Cavendish was/is much more versatile than Cipo ever was as a sprinter. By no means was Cavendish ever Sagan-esque, but he could find ways to win a sprint that Cipo never could’ve pulled off. On the other hand, Cipo was the better straightaway sprinter and if you put the 2 teams in a lead out straightaway head 2 head, I think Cipo wins.
However, Cav is/was the better all around sprinter/cyclist of the two. Cipo could get over the mountains when he was motivated enough to do so, but Cav was good enough to do it just about every time and still dominate his era. He had weaker competition at times, but he still went head to head with a green jersey winning Petacchi in 2010 and won like 5 stages.
Cipollini himself was 33, so it's not like a 25 year old Cavendish vs a 36 year old Petacchi, And it's not a pure sprinter stage by any means, so I am not sure why you remembered the age argument that was used in a different context.Who commented about Cav winning against Old men? 2nd and 3rd on that stage were 34 and 37! And 4th and 5th were Spanish, so really don't count as sprinters.
Petacchi yes, Cipo no. In fact the opposite is true for Cipos early career. Trains were not really a thing early 90s so sprint stages were not as common. Cipos first Tour in 92, there was not a bunch sprint until stage 10, the second one was the final stage. That was it. There is far more sprint opportunities in modern cycling.Yes.
Depends on how you define modern cycling. Flat stages in the Tour have gone down considerably in the last ~15 years, but the %of flat stages stolen by the breakaways has gone to 0.Petacchi yes, Cipo no. In fact the opposite is true for Cipos early career. Trains were not really a thing early 90s so sprint stages were not as common. Cipos first Tour in 92, there was not a bunch sprint until stage 10, the second one was the final stage. That was it. There is far more sprint opportunities in modern cycling.
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