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Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

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Unchained

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This weeks version of Mark Karen-dish excuse list..with his mongoose mind, starts screaming at the race officials about safe helicopter film and follow distances.. and as you can see by stage results and sprint bonuses, Cav burned all his matches on flight safety.
Some great sprinting today
 
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Berflamand

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Red Rick said:
Apparently Boonen was was watching E3 near the top of the Taaienberg and Cav stopped by to hang out lol.
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Jep:

FsFmG40XoAU8-Yi
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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kingjr said:
And for all the wrong reasons
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Whether you like it or not, that would still be a huge deal especially adding in the longevity aspect. Even at 34, it drops down to; 28, 25, 22 and 20 for the top 5. The highest stage totals for sprinters that Cav was compared with and/or competed against are at 14, 12 x4, 11, 10, and 6. That’s crazy longevity and domination when your +20 or more ahead of your rivals. On top of that he won with 4/5 different teams at the Tour, depending on how you count his return 6 years later to Quickstep, when the next highest are at 3, so his success translated to other teams as well.
 
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kingjr

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SHAD0W93 said:
Whether you like it or not, that would still be a huge deal especially adding in the longevity aspect. Even at 34, it drops down to; 28, 25, 22 and 20 for the top 5. The highest stage totals for sprinters that Cav was compared with and/or competed against are at 14, 12 x4, 11, 10, and 6. That’s crazy longevity and domination when your +20 or more ahead of your rivals. On top of that he won with 4/5 different teams at the Tour, depending on how you count his return 6 years later to Quickstep, when the next highest are at 3, so his success translated to other teams as well.
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I don't question his merits as a sprinter, he is probably the best there has ever been. In terms of records, I'd prefer if there was a separate category for sprinters, or an asterisk after their names.
 
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kingjr

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StryderHells said:
Why would they have an asterisk? It makes no sense and using your logic they should have different categories for TT’s, MTF’s and so on.
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There is little chance someone who can only win TTs or MTFs would feature prominently in any list of most victories. Not enough of them, compared to sprint stages. Those who do win TTs and MTFs tend to be better cyclists than sprinters on the whole. Sprinters often can't do much aside from sprinting, they aren't good at TTs except short, flat ones; rubbish on the climbs, sometimes decent in the classics, but generally mediocre. As helpers there are almost completely useless and when they get to the point where they're not, they're usually not winning sprints anymore. It's just a bit painful to see one of them named in the same breath as someone of Merckx's calibre.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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kingjr said:
There is little chance someone who can only win TTs or MTFs would feature prominently in any list of most victories. Not enough of them, compared to sprint stages. Those who do win TTs and MTFs tend to be better cyclists than sprinters on the whole. Sprinters often can't do much aside from sprinting, they aren't good at TTs except short, flat ones; rubbish on the climbs, sometimes decent in the classics, but generally mediocre. As helpers there are almost completely useless and when they get to the point where they're not, they're usually not winning sprints anymore. It's just a bit painful to see one of them named in the same breath as someone of Merckx's calibre.
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Merckx has a million records, it's hilarious to see people care so much about this one being equalled by Cavendish. It's completely logical that the GOAT sprinter is up there in stage wins. Not to mention Cavendish won as a specialist against other specialist whereas Mercks rode in a far less professional peloton where he could mop up 7 stages in a single Tour.

I would argue Cav has more considering a bunch of Merckx stages were split a and b stages.
 
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pmcg76

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Red Rick said:
Merckx has a million records, it's hilarious to see people care so much about this one being equalled by Cavendish. It's completely logical that the GOAT sprinter is up there in stage wins. Not to mention Cavendish won as a specialist against other specialist whereas Mercks rode in a far less professional peloton where he could mop up 7 stages in a single Tour.

I would argue Cav has more considering a bunch of Merckx stages were split a and b stages.
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Yeah and if you put Cavendish(or any other modern sprinter) back pre 90s, they would have far less wins. If Cav had been riding in the 80s for example, his career would have been more like Jean Paul Van Poppel. That is not a knock on his talent as a sprinter, just the reality that sprinters did not get the same opportunities. He would not have won a World Title or Milan-San Remo as those races just didn't finish in bunch sprints back then. If he rode in Van Poppels era, he would have needed to win every single bunch sprint at Le Tour between 1986-92(7 Tours) to reach 20 wins, something he achieved between 08-11 yet he didn't win every sprint in those Tours. There is just no comparison between the pre sprint train era of sprinting and afterward so basing greatness of pure numbers is simply illogical,the modern sprinters will always come out on top, not because they are better, but because the sport has changed.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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pmcg76 said:
Yeah and if you put Cavendish(or any other modern sprinter) back pre 90s, they would have far less wins. If Cav had been riding in the 80s for example, his career would have been more like Jean Paul Van Poppel. That is not a knock on his talent as a sprinter, just the reality that sprinters did not get the same opportunities. He would not have won a World Title or Milan-San Remo as those races just didn't finish in bunch sprints back then. If he rode in Van Poppels era, he would have needed to win every single bunch sprint at Le Tour between 1986-92(7 Tours) to reach 20 wins, something he achieved between 08-11 yet he didn't win every sprint in those Tours. There is just no comparison between the pre sprint train era of sprinting and afterward so basing greatness of pure numbers is simply illogical,the modern sprinters will always come out on top, not because they are better, but because the sport has changed.
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Then why does no modern sprinter even have a single year like Cavendish in his prime. Even at the Tour de France alone.

His peak, dominance in sprinting, and longevity in the disciplni have been unreal. Most sprinters are only on top of the world for a few years.
 
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