Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

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Jul 16, 2010
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Since when is it unusual for a rider to finish a Grand Tour?

Cav deserves no praise, it's only normal that he finishes a GT he starts in.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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TechnicalDescent said:
Evans is a GC rider.

Cav does deserve praise for battling throught the mountains and doing the horse work for the bottles. It's unusual. Don't hate.
Sprinters working for their GC guys on mountain stages in not unusual in the slightest.

I'm with Pisti. Cav is what he is - the fastest sprinter in the world. But trying to make him out to be anymore than that is wide of the mark.
 
May 13, 2012
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El Pistolero said:
Since when is it unusual for a rider to finish a Grand Tour?

Cav deserves no praise, it's only normal that he finishes a GT he starts in.
No it's not normal for the Giro. The majority of the sprinters have gone home. This happens most years. Cav is known to struggle terribly but he just wants to do justice to the rainbows. Good on him.
 
May 13, 2012
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will10 said:
Sprinters working for their GC guys on mountain stages in not unusual in the slightest.

I'm with Pisti. Cav is what he is - the fastest sprinter in the world. But trying to make him out to be anymore than that is wide of the mark.
When they are the team's main guy, the best in the world, and a world champion and holding the points jersy, it is unusual to see them scurrying back to the car. Kelly said in his day they wouldn't do it. I agree with him.
 
The defence that Cav just doesn't like to loose as an apology for his poor comportment is pathetic.

I have never witnessed a multi-victorious sprinter yell at the guy who beat him, simply because he beat him. Fantastic!

Poor loser, basta.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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The whole point is he was not the "team's main guy" that day, he was riding for Uran and Henao (or as much as he can on a stage like that). How is it so unusual considering we saw Petacchi doing it for Scarponi in this very race 12 months ago? Also in the points jersey IIRC, not that that matters on a mountain stage one iota.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Wait, so Cav crashes heard early in the Giro and not only stays in the race but goes on to win stages (he could easily have gone home).

What's not to like about that?

I think he takes losing very personally and certainly felt he let his team down at the end. He probably felt he was about to phone in at that sprint I assume he was completely surprised.

Also, didn't he end up praising Guardini afterwards?
 
richwagmn said:
Wait, so Cav crashes heard early in the Giro and not only stays in the race but goes on to win stages (he could easily have gone home).

What's not to like about that?

I think he takes losing very personally and certainly felt he let his team down at the end. He probably felt he was about to phone in at that sprint I assume he was completely surprised.

Also, didn't he end up praising Guardini afterwards?
So take it personally. Be ****ed-off at yourself.
 
johnnycash said:
Didn't Cav get beaten fair and square at the tour last year, the stage before he won and cried on the podium, Greipel i think it was?
Nope, you're mixing your Tours. It was 2010, because he crashed out on stage 1, and then on stage 4 he was totally beaten for pace, timing and didn't have the legs, coming about 13th in the sprint after sitting up, and Petacchi won both stages. Cav then won stage 5 and bawled his eyes out, but after that he was purely unstoppable.
 
richwagmn said:
Wait, so Cav crashes heard early in the Giro and not only stays in the race but goes on to win stages (he could easily have gone home).

What's not to like about that?

I think he takes losing very personally and certainly felt he let his team down at the end. He probably felt he was about to phone in at that sprint I assume he was completely surprised.

Also, didn't he end up praising Guardini afterwards?
You just made an argument for exactly the opposite position many are taking about Cav.

Yes, you can't win them all. Hey, sometimes you crash, but you don't make excuses, nobody likes somebody who always has an excuse. Cav is always full of them.

His gesture at the end was a display of poor sportsmanship. He got smoked, fair and square, deal with it like a big-boy Cav.

Ride and compete another day and prove you are the best.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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zigmeister said:
You just made an argument for exactly the opposite position many are taking about Cav.

Yes, you can't win them all. Hey, sometimes you crash, but you don't make excuses, nobody likes somebody who always has an excuse. Cav is always full of them.

His gesture at the end was a display of poor sportsmanship. He got smoked, fair and square, deal with it like a big-boy Cav.

Ride and compete another day and prove you are the best.
Prove he is the best? Seriously? Who's better? Or more importantly, who's ever been better? Cav is the best road sprinter of all time. Easily.

Sounds like he was blaming himself for not starting earlier. How's that making an excuse? An excuse would be his lead out failed him, he was suffering from his crash.
 
Apr 7, 2010
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TechnicalDescent said:
No it's not normal for the Giro. The majority of the sprinters have gone home. This happens most years. Cav is known to struggle terribly but he just wants to do justice to the rainbows. Good on him.
i recall very clearly seeing petacchi on the front of the lampre 'mountain train' for significant periods of time in last year's giro

it is more common than you think
 
richwagmn said:
Prove he is the best? Seriously? Who's better? Or more importantly, who's ever been better? Cav is the best road sprinter of all time. Easily.

Sounds like he was blaming himself for not starting earlier. How's that making an excuse? An excuse would be his lead out failed him, he was suffering from his crash.
Freire,Zabel,Maertens are way better than him in my opinion
 
May 13, 2012
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rhubroma said:
I have never witnessed a multi-victorious sprinter yell at the guy who beat him, simply because he beat him. Fantastic!
I have never witnessed that either. It would be funny if Cav did something like that. Doubt he will though.
 
May 13, 2012
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will10 said:
The whole point is he was not the "team's main guy" that day, he was riding for Uran and Henao (or as much as he can on a stage like that). How is it so unusual considering we saw Petacchi doing it for Scarponi in this very race 12 months ago? Also in the points jersey IIRC, not that that matters on a mountain stage one iota.
He is clearly the main man for Sky this tour. He is holding the points jersey. He is also the world champion. He has an important sprint the next day. I think it was unusual. He has done this on many occasions during the tour and is great to see. It shows you that he's not the arrogant selfish guy some make him out to be.
 
May 13, 2012
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burning said:
What??????????????????????????????? :confused::confused::confused:
You don't think Cav is the most important rider there for sky? Obviously not for GC, but he's more important to the team than Rigoberto Uran Uran. He's won them three stages and is holding the points jersey.
 
TechnicalDescent said:
You don't think Cav is the most important rider there for sky? Obviously not for GC, but he's more important to the team than Rigoberto Uran Uran. He's won them three stages and is holding the points jersey.
There is some skinny guy who has weird hair and wears jersey with colours of Britain, I guess he will be the most important guy in the tour??

Edit: Ooops, If you mean Giro, you are probably right though
 
richwagmn said:
Prove he is the best? Seriously? Who's better? Or more importantly, who's ever been better? Cav is the best road sprinter of all time. Easily.

Sounds like he was blaming himself for not starting earlier. How's that making an excuse? An excuse would be his lead out failed him, he was suffering from his crash.
Freddy Maertens is the best sprinter of all time.

Now, by the time he's done Cav might be that, but he isn't better than Freddy yet.

Cavendish, as was normal, took losing very badly in the heat of the moment, then after having the chance to calm down and review the situation, managed to make a much more rational and balanced position.

Sometimes he's made excuses that are fair enough, other times it's a bit of poor sportsmanship (like namechecking Michael Schär as the reason he didn't win Gent-Wevelgem because of leaving a gap on a descent, when Rojas was behind Cavendish at the start of that descent and made the front group, so either spotted something or Cavendish simply dropped too far back in the group). You often see riders punch the handlebars when they're disappointed at the end of the sprint, but the gesturing at Guardini as if he'd done something wrong was a bit uncalled for. Which Cavendish himself acknowledged later on.

Cavendish is enjoying a spell as the fastest road sprinter in the world. But one day, he won't be. Maybe Guardini and Kittel are the guys who can challenge him, or maybe they aren't. But Cavendish will, one day, be in the position Petacchi was in 2009-10, where new phenoms can outpace him, but he can outsmart them. I'm sure he'll find plenty of ways to keep winning when that time arrives. He's too good not to. So when he's done he could well be the best sprinter ever. But right now I'd still favour Maertens.
 
May 13, 2012
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burning said:
There is some skinny guy who has weird hair and wears jersey with colours of Britain, I guess he will be the most important guy in the tour??

Edit: Ooops, If you mean Giro, you are probably right though
No that will be Bradley Wiggins.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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TechnicalDescent said:
He is clearly the main man for Sky this tour. He is holding the points jersey. He is also the world champion. He has an important sprint the next day. I think it was unusual. He has done this on many occasions during the tour and is great to see. It shows you that he's not the arrogant selfish guy some make him out to be.
So you decided to ignore my (and others') post and just rewrite what you'd already posted?

Again, it is not an unusual practice for sprinters to help out their respective GC guys on mountain stages. The fact that he has the points jersey is moot - see Petacchi last year doing masses of tempo riding in that very jersey for Scarponi. Your world champion point is also moot - he is far from the only world champion to ride in aid of others wearing that jersey.

Fetching bottles every now and then does not excuse his arrogant attitude the rest of the time.
 
May 13, 2012
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will10 said:
So you decided to ignore my (and others') post and just rewrite what you'd already posted?

Again, it is not an unusual practice for sprinters to help out their respective GC guys on mountain stages. The fact that he has the points jersey is moot - see Petacchi last year doing masses of tempo riding in that very jersey for Scarponi. Your world champion point is also moot - he is far from the only world champion to ride in aid of others wearing that jersey.

Fetching bottles every now and then does not excuse his arrogant attitude the rest of the time.
I was not persuaded by your contribution. I remain with Kelly on this one. Taking everything into context and the place Cav has, it was unusual and above the call of duty. Next time he should send someone else back and focus on saving energy for the big sprints. It's not as though he's a big guy either - a few water bottles are double his body weight!
 
TechnicalDescent said:
I was not persuaded by your contribution. I remain with Kelly on this one. Taking everything into context and the place Cav has, it was unusual and above the call of duty. Next time he should send someone else back and focus on saving energy for the big sprints. It's not as though he's a big guy either - a few water bottles are double his body weight!
I've seen Ballan and Bettini (!!!) fetch drinks in the rainbow stripes.

I've seen Petacchi, Hondo, Greipel, Roelandts and Bennati ride on the front, some of them even on mountains, for their team leader.

It's good that Cavendish is doing these things, but let's not make out like it's something special or unique that deserves unequivocal praise for going above and beyond the call of duty. The fact remains, things like that are part of his duty as a cyclist; team orders are usually in his favour, so he's not likely to complain so much on a rare occasion when he's asked to do some of the botillero duty.
 
May 13, 2012
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Libertine Seguros said:
I've seen Ballan and Bettini (!!!) fetch drinks in the rainbow stripes.

I've seen Petacchi, Hondo, Greipel, Roelandts and Bennati ride on the front, some of them even on mountains, for their team leader.

It's good that Cavendish is doing these things, but let's not make out like it's something special or unique that deserves unequivocal praise for going above and beyond the call of duty. The fact remains, things like that are part of his duty as a cyclist; team orders are usually in his favour, so he's not likely to complain so much on a rare occasion when he's asked to do some of the botillero duty.
A lot of people claim to have 'seen' things, I have my doubts. I trust Kelly's judgment over the hearsay of comrades here.
 

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