Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[taiwan]

you

So, is it true that if you accept defeat and don't act like a whiny brat that you like to lose?

How well you control your behaviour in a race is another matter. It's just that it's not surprising that if you're really trying to win you get frustrated when you lose.

 

[taiwan]

Being aggressive does not mean losing your temper, there are a lot of sports and jobs (including my own) where you need to be aggressive and assertive but also remain calm and keep your emotions in check.

On the other hand, not that surprising if you slip up and lose your temper as I'm sure you will have. And you may have more real responsibility than Cav.

 

[Angliru]

This thread really cracks me up.

Of course Cav doesn't like to lose. Thats why he is such a prolific winner.What would his team mates think if he just shrugged it off, and said 'oh well'.

They've been working their boll0cks off for him all day haven't they?

Come on guys get real. You don't like the guy, fair enough. Just get on with your lives and stop posting such cr@p.

What bs. No one "likes" to lose. It doesn't make the rest of his competitors "prolific winners". He wins because of his natural ability, his work ethic and his team's dedication to delivering him in a position to finish the job. It's sheer crap to say that being occasionally classless and unsportsman-like is somehow representative of champion athletes when you have so many that are the complete opposite. I'm not saying that Cavendish is always this way, seemingly occasionally only in the rare defeat. It's a choice of the individual not some uncontrollable possession of their being resulting from their overwhelming talent.

 

[Machu Picchu]

On the other hand, not that surprising if you slip up and lose your temper as I'm sure you will have. And you may have more real responsibility than Cav.

We all get frustrated, it’s just part of life and you learn to cope with the stress or anger you may feel, usually this is learnt as your grow and mature but perhaps if you have people around you saying “it’s ok, you’re a winner” then you don’t learn that acting out is not acceptable or a responsible way to behave.

 

[RedheadDane]

Okay, while I find it completely alright when Cav, or indeed any rider, expresses frustration when beaten (I... actually just think it's kinda funny!) I really don't think he should blame it on what happened on stage 3...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-angry-at-defeat-in-giro-ditalia-stage-18

 

[El Pistolero]

He's the new king of excuses.

 

[johnnycash]

What bs. No one "likes" to lose. It doesn't make the rest of his competitors "prolific winners". He wins because of his natural ability, his work ethic and his team's dedication to delivering him in a position to finish the job. It's sheer crap to say that being occasionally classless and unsportsman-like is somehow representative of champion athletes when you have so many that are the complete opposite. I'm not saying that Cavendish is always this way, seemingly occasionally only in the rare defeat. It's a choice of the individual not some uncontrollable possession of their being resulting from their overwhelming talent.

You missed another point of why he wins, because of his desire to do so. Its not just his work ethic, his team or his talent, its that when it comes down to it he wants to beat everyone.

Plus the guy wins a lot of races, and that always polarises fans' opinions. If he was the perfect diplomat, you'd all abuse him for being boring. He's great for the sport. I'm glad he got beaten yesterday, as it will sharpen him up for the tour.

 

[cineteq]

You missed another point of why he wins, because of his desire to do so. Its not just his work ethic, his team or his talent, its that when it comes down to it he wants to beat everyone.

His desire to win is irrelevant of his behaviour when he loses, an embarrassment of a world champion. That's the whole point of this conversation.

- Un-sportsmanlike behaviour after losing, yelling at Guardini
- He failed to congratulate the winner
- He thought of filing a complain against Guardini
http://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/24-05-2012/guardinicavendish-botta-risposta-prima-volata-poi-anche-palco-911327471381.shtml
- No apology

 

[180mmCrank]

He is young, raw and authentic. He cares about what he does and it shows.

I personally like it. I know others don't.

T

 

[hrotha]

Ah, there we have it. The "you hate him because he wins!" defense. Thanks, Johnny, this debate is now complete.

 

[veganrob]

Okay, while I find it completely alright when Cav, or indeed any rider, expresses frustration when beaten (I... actually just think it's kinda funny!) I really don't think he should blame it on what happened on stage 3...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-angry-at-defeat-in-giro-ditalia-stage-18

From what I got out of the article Cav blames his tenuous hold on the Red jersey on the crash and losing points, not his defeat yesterday.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I dont think he was blaming yesterday defeat on Stage 3.

The stage 3 comment was more that he should have had the Red Jersey pretty much locked down, and didn't because of that.

Take the 0 that day and turn it to 25 (or 20 or even 16) and the points competition looks very different.

 

[RedheadDane]

I don't think he was directly blaming the stage 3 crash on his defeat yesterday. I just asumed that one of the reasons he got so mad about being defeated was that he really needed those points, points he wouldn't have needed (as much) if he'd gotten points on stage 3.

 

[thehog]

His desire to win is irrelevant of his behaviour when he loses, an embarrassment of a world champion. That's the whole point of this conversation.

- Un-sportsmanlike behaviour after losing, yelling at Guardini
- He failed to congratulate the winner
- He thought of filing a complain against Guardini
http://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/24-05-2012/guardinicavendish-botta-risposta-prima-volata-poi-anche-palco-911327471381.shtml
- No apology

I agree. I think what scared him most about yesterday was that was the first time he was beaten by pure speed in a two up sprint.

Sure Cav has lost before but generally that's because there was a crash or he was boxed in etc. That was the first time I've seen him beaten by pure speed ever. That got him worried. You can tell. Cav is refusing to acknowledge the guy. Cav is behaving like the sprinters used to treat him when he first started.

Guardini is 22 and once he gets Pro legs and can finish a 200km stage with strength he's going to win a lot more.

Guardini is everything Cav isn't. Charming, good looking, well spoken. He will be a big superstar and that's got MC worried.

Such a shame we won't see Guardini at the Tour.

 

[johnnycash]

Sure Cav has lost before but generally that's because there was a crash or he was boxed in etc. That was the first time I've seen him beaten by pure speed ever. That got him worried. You can tell.
Such a shame we won't see Guardini at the Tour.

Didn't Cav get beaten fair and square at the tour last year, the stage before he won and cried on the podium, Greipel i think it was?

 

[Angliru]

Normally don't post on here but there is so much rubbish being written i felt i had to!

Cavendish has to be super confident, as a sprinter he may often have the responsibility of his whole team (plus the team staff - and everyone's salaries) on his shoulders, if he doesn't believe he can finish it off in the last 200m then he's got a major problem and probably won't. He can be objective and assess truly how good he was after he's retired, now he has to believe that he can/will win every sprint he is in. If that offends these web-heroes then so be it.

This isn't the end of Cav, I think he's 'just about' proven that he has more than just talent. Lets see how Guardini copes when everyone is watching him in every sprint finish and the weight of the team, sometimes the nation, are on his shoulders. Cav has delivered too many times to be written off.

Who is writing him off?

 

[thehog]

Didn't Cav get beaten fair and square at the tour last year, the stage before he won and cried on the podium, Greipel i think it was?

If you're telling the story then at least remember what happened!

Pure speed indeed.

 

[Angliru]

Okay, while I find it completely alright when Cav, or indeed any rider, expresses frustration when beaten (I... actually just think it's kinda funny!) I really don't think he should blame it on what happened on stage 3...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-angry-at-defeat-in-giro-ditalia-stage-18

He's blaming what happened on stage 3 for there still being somewhat of a contest for the points jersey, not on his loss in yesterday's sprint.

 

[Angliru]

You missed another point of why he wins, because of his desire to do so. Its not just his work ethic, his team or his talent, its that when it comes down to it he wants to beat everyone.

Plus the guy wins a lot of races, and that always polarises fans' opinions. If he was the perfect diplomat, you'd all abuse him for being boring. He's great for the sport. I'm glad he got beaten yesterday, as it will sharpen him up for the tour.

Every sprinter wants to beat everyone. What makes Cavendish any differerent just because he's better at it than his competitors? I have no problem with his being upset when he loses a sprint. My problem is with those that attribute his success to him being "more competitive" than his opponents, or having a stronger desire to win. I'm quite certain each sprinter has a comparable desire to win, some just don't have the ability to do so as often as Cavendish. Additionally I have a problem with you saying that those that have an opinion contrary to your own when it concerns Cavendish would still have same opinions of him if he were "the perfect diplomat" when his attitude is the reason for our opinions. It's not that complicated.

 

[Angliru]

His desire to win is irrelevant of his behaviour when he loses, an embarrassment of a world champion. That's the whole point of this conversation.

- Un-sportsmanlike behaviour after losing, yelling at Guardini
- He failed to congratulate the winner
- He thought of filing a complain against Guardini
http://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/24-05-2012/guardinicavendish-botta-risposta-prima-volata-poi-anche-palco-911327471381.shtml
- No apology

I changed my mind. I do have a problem with the above reactions but not with the slamming of his hands on his bars if that action was due only to his disappointment in losing the stage. The above in bold are certainly examples of poor sportsmanship if it was a clean sprint.

 

[TechnicalDescent]

Seriously though, we should lay off the trolling about making a funny face when he loses. He's done the world champion's jersy proud by battling into the third week and being a domestique for the team at times. Few other world champions would lower themselves to this....

Also, it turns out yesterday's stage was the second fastest in the history of the Giro. It's not surprising that he misfired at the end.

 

[El Pistolero]

Seriously though, we should lay off the trolling about making a funny face when he loses. He's done the world champion's jersy proud by battling into the third week and being a domestique for the team at times. Few other world champions would lower themselves to this....

Also, it turns out yesterday's stage was the second fastest in the history of the Giro. It's not surprising that he misfired at the end.

Oh please, let's not try and make Cav look better than previous world champions shall we...

What's this desire with Cav fans to always call him better in everything than his colleagues?

 

[TechnicalDescent]

Oh please, let's not try and make Cav look better than previous world champions shall we...

What's this desire with Cav fans to always call him better in everything than his colleagues?

Only repeating what Sean Kelly said in commentary. Few other team leaders or world champions would go to the car like this. No wonder he was tired yesterday.

 

[El Pistolero]

Andy Schleck did it in the Tour 2 years ago(or last year, can't remember). I've seen Greipel doing it on stages he could win, I've seen Ballan doing it, etc

Cadel Evans finished both the Giro AND the Tour while wearing the rainbow jersey. Paolo Bettini was also a great domestique for Boonen in some races while wearing the rainbow jersey(Vuelta 2008 for example).... I can go on here for an awful long time.

 

[TechnicalDescent]

Andy Schleck did it in the Tour 2 years ago(or last year, can't remember). I've seen Greipel doing it on stages he could win, I've seen Ballan doing it, etc

Cadel Evans finished both the Giro AND the Tour while wearing the rainbow jersey. Paolo Bettini was also a great domestique for Boonen in some races while wearing the rainbow jersey(Vuelta 2008 for example).... I can go on here for an awful long time.

Evans is a GC rider.

Cav does deserve praise for battling throught the mountains and doing the horse work for the bottles. It's unusual. Don't hate.