Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

Is he..... its all up to interpretation, this may sound all saucy but I dont think that any sportsman/ celebrity should be attacked unless they have explicitly shown disgusting traits, for Cav that is certainly not the case (note the world explicit) as there is a perfectly logical argument against it.
He may not be everyone's cup of tea but does that mean you have to hate him..

Yeh but an incredibly tiny proportion.

There will always be one apple which is ready for picking even if all the others are not

Yeh but I felt that CQ manager's posts was wrong, OK you can have your misguided opinions but if you state factual incorrectness then I felt I should set him right, of course after that I couldnt really help myself?
Yes I understand how people could see Cav as not a nice guy and i believed I addressed that in my post but to make up rubbish....

Since I'm uncertain about this I have to ask in reference to an act that was reported after his infamous crash with Heinrich Haussler: Was it ever refuted that he actually spit on Haussler after that crash? I know the rumour was it that he had and Haussler wouldn't directly address it but implied that Cav's actions immediately after the crash were much, much less than one would expect from someone that is supposedly of such I stature and stellar reputation that many are defending here.

 

[CQmanager]

again stick to your game you run you seem to have a lot of tim on your hand's or get a JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

The game I run? I'm not running any game. Its Hugo Koblet .... I just provided web space for the game's download files and put together few web pages to make it more fun for those participating.

As per getting a job? ..... Job? Whats that? I'm too busy riding my bikes

And let me repeat it for you and all those other Cav's fans. He is a one-trick-fat-pony

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

And let me repeat it for you and all those other Cav's fans. He is a one-trick-fat-pony

Obviously, but the question is in his position would you you change your training routine to become lets face it an at best average domestique with the chance of an occasional forum pleasing win from a breakaway, or stick with what you are good at doing and contend for GT points jerseys and lots of race/stage wins?

 

[hatcher]

They seem like a bunch of really nice people, so I'd do all I could to please them.

 

[Eric8-A]

Since I'm uncertain about this I have to ask in reference to an act that was reported after his infamous crash with Heinrich Haussler: Was it ever refuted that he actually spit on Haussler after that crash? I know the rumour was it that he had and Haussler wouldn't directly address it but implied that Cav's actions immediately after the crash were much, much less than one would expect from someone that is supposedly of such I stature and stellar reputation that many are defending here.

Spitting on Haussler? Really? That's going a bit too far isn't it?
As for the crashes he's been involved in that people say he caused, I find it difficult to see who exactly was the cause since one person says one thing where it was Cavendish that caused it, and then another says it wasn't.

 

[hatcher]

There is absolutely zero evidence he spat on anyone. No video, no pictures, no visual evidence at all.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The story has also gained notoriety in the re-telling too; in the original telling of it, Haussler had asked him for an apology, and instead of apologising or remonstrating, Cav spat on the ground between them. Not on Haussler. Haussler says he was a bit dazed and doesn't recall it, so all we're left with is a he-said she-said between two sides, neither of whom are particularly objective.

 

[Eric8-A]

The story has also gained notoriety in the re-telling too; in the original telling of it, Haussler had asked him for an apology, and instead of apologising or remonstrating, Cav spat on the ground between them. Not on Haussler. Haussler says he was a bit dazed and doesn't recall it, so all we're left with is a he-said she-said between two sides, neither of whom are particularly objective.

It's those types of stories that make people dislike the guy.

 

[cycladianpirate]

One can only point to incidents, of course. But it's the lack of empathy that offends me.

MSR was a prime example. OK - you're unquestionably the best sprinter in the world and (arguably) your team's best chance for winning the race but you are dropped on a climb. What would you do in those circumstances?

(1) Say - I'm alright really! Get the team working like dogs to get me back on and all will be well.

(2) Say - Forget it. It's just not my day.

What you do not do, under any circumstances, is both

If I was your domestique - and pat me on the back as many times as you like after caving in (pun intended) - I'd still be thinking "what a git".

 

[hatcher]

It's those types of stories that make people dislike the guy.

Untrue ones?

 

[Richeypen]

One can only point to incidents, of course. But it's the lack of empathy that offends me.

MSR was a prime example. OK - you're unquestionably the best sprinter in the world and (arguably) your team's best chance for winning the race but you are dropped on a climb. What would you do in those circumstances?

(1) Say - I'm alright really! Get the team working like dogs to get me back on and all will be well.

(2) Say - Forget it. It's just not my day.

What you do not do, under any circumstances, is both

If I was your domestique - and pat me on the back as many times as you like after caving in (pun intended) - I'd still be thinking "what a git".

Why? Surely you try like **** to get back on but when that fails what is he meant to do? It wasnt like he gave up, he simply didn't have it in his legs.


Seems to me that you should do 'A', if that fails how are you not meant to do 'B'

 

[jamiephillips]

Interestingly, they are central to his success. As its coming together in the final kilometre, his DS prepares a nice big bowl of Golden Grahams (any earlier they would just go soggy, and no one wants that). Cav can smell them a mile off, and the added motivation helps him generate 50% more watts than he can give in testing. Eisel even keeps a few in his jersey in case he needs to give him extra motivation to get over mountains and similar. They like to keep a lid on it though, as you can only imagine the nefarious tactics other teams might employ if it was widely known.

It also puts his MSR performance into sharp relief. Apparently, there was mid week shortage at the all night Tesco in Manchester, and obviously they're difficult to get hold of in Milan. So they used the supermarket own brand as a substitute - but as we all know, they're just not the same. That's why he was has shaking his head so much following La Manie - if you listen closely to the footage you can hear him saying over the raido 'You should have gone to Sainsbury's, you bunch of utter mugs.'

Brilliant! He could have explained all this to the media after the race though, how Eisel didn't have any Golden Grahams in his back pocket!

And C.Q manager, you'd be fat too if you ate as many Golden Grahams as our Cav.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

One can only point to incidents, of course. But it's the lack of empathy that offends me.

MSR was a prime example. OK - you're unquestionably the best sprinter in the world and (arguably) your team's best chance for winning the race but you are dropped on a climb. What would you do in those circumstances?

(1) Say - I'm alright really! Get the team working like dogs to get me back on and all will be well.

(2) Say - Forget it. It's just not my day.

What you do not do, under any circumstances, is both

If I was your domestique - and pat me on the back as many times as you like after caving in (pun intended) - I'd still be thinking "what a git".

Let me tell you what really happened.

Cav gets dropped on La Manie.
He's the team leader, previous winner, and in good form, so his DS screams at everyone but EBH, the other protected rider, and Eddie's helper, to get back and help Cav out.
Everybody gets back to help Cav, under the DS's orders.
Cav works like mad to get up La Manie and down the descent without losing too much.
Cav's helpers work like dogs on the flat to get them back to the main bunch.
Cav's helpers keep working like dogs and, at one point, it looks like they might do it.
Cav's helpers keep working, even when it becomes obvious they aren't going to do it.
Cav's helpers, absolutely exhausted, realise they can't do it, and sit up.
Cav apologises and thanks them for an incredible effort.

Other than not getting his a*** up La Manie, what else should Cav have done differently?

 

[maltiv]

Other than not getting his a*** up La Manie, what else should Cav have done differently?

He could've said, say, "guys, I'm feeling so ****ty that I'm actually going to be the first guy in the entire ****ing race to get dropped 100 meters into the first climb of the day..."

 

[cycladianpirate]

Why? Surely you try like **** to get back on but when that fails what is he meant to do? It wasnt like he gave up, he simply didn't have it in his legs.


Seems to me that you should do 'A', if that fails how are you not meant to do 'B'

Did you see the effort Sky made to drive the split back to the leading bunch? Do you not think that an early 'white flag' from Cavendish would have enabled the team to leave him behind and give that sort of support to EBH?

But that isn't my point. It's the inability to understand the concept of "it's not just about me" that I object to.

 

[hmsgenoa]

Lets get one thing straight, since the Tour de Suisse crash with Haussler has been brought up; If Haussler hadn't barged him with his shoulder they'd have stayed upright, and Haussler deviated as much from the left hand side of the road as Cav did from the right. Anyone doubting this should check out Eurosports coverage from above, it can clearly be seen that Cav loses his balance the moment Hassler barges him.

How many times have we seen a sprint finish where riders are leaning on each other but stay up because they are being professional (Champs Elysees finish in 2003 anyone). As long as you don't get a berk like Haussler deliberately barging, nobody loses their balance and tumbles. As far as any spitting incident goes its all conjecture and my guess is Cav spat on the ground; so much BS flying around.

'No one likes a winner' is how most of this thread comes across. Most of the negative comments about Cav come from Americans who cannot bear to watch nearly man Tyler Farrar come 2nd again. Cavendish is a phenomenon, and one that needs to be appreciated.

Look at practically any head on shot of a bunch finish that Cavendish wins, a heaving mass of muscular sprinting heavyweights grimacing and left in his wake. He's turned the act of winning a bunch sprint into an art form and you don't like it. If he didn't deliver the goods so often most of you lot wouldn't have anything to moan about.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

He could've said, say, "guys, I'm feeling so ****ty that I'm actually going to be the first guy in the entire ****ing race to get dropped 100 meters into the first climb of the day..."

That's ridiculous. He wouldn't have known, 100m into the climb, how the day would end up. When his helpers dropped back, he and his DS would have thought that it was very possible that he could still get back into the race and, even at that point, he represented Sky's best chance.

Can you imagine if he'd said, "no guys, y'all get back up there and help Eddie, I've had enough"? You'd be slaughtering him, right now on this forum, for not having enough guts and throwing the towel in early, wouldn't you?

 

[jamiephillips]

^ Very well put!!

 

[hatcher]

That's ridiculous. He wouldn't have known, 100m into the climb, how the day would end up. When his helpers dropped back, he and his DS would have thought that it was very possible that he could still get back into the race and, even at that point, he represented Sky's best chance.

Can you imagine if he'd said, "no guys, y'all get back up there and help Eddie, I've had enough"? You'd be slaughtering him, right now on this forum, for not having enough guts and throwing the towel in early, wouldn't you?

And if he quit that easily I guarantee he wouldn't have a quarter of the wins he has now.

 

[jamiephillips]

Lets get one thing straight, since the Tour de Suisse crash with Haussler has been brought up; If Haussler hadn't barged him with his shoulder they'd have stayed upright, and Haussler deviated as much from the left hand side of the road as Cav did from the right. Anyone doubting this should check out Eurosports coverage from above, it can clearly be seen that Cav loses his balance the moment Hassler barges him.

How many times have we seen a sprint finish where riders are leaning on each other but stay up because they are being professional (Champs Elysees finish in 2003 anyone). As long as you don't get a berk like Haussler deliberately barging, nobody loses their balance and tumbles. As far as any spitting incident goes its all conjecture and my guess is Cav spat on the ground; so much BS flying around.

'No one likes a winner' is how most of this thread comes across. Most of the negative comments about Cav come from Americans who cannot bear to watch nearly man Tyler Farrar come 2nd again. Cavendish is a phenomenon, and one that needs to be appreciated.

Look at practically any head on shot of a bunch finish that Cavendish wins, a heaving mass of muscular sprinting heavyweights grimacing and left in his wake. He's turned the act of winning a bunch sprint into an art form and you don't like it. If he didn't deliver the goods so often most of you lot wouldn't have anything to moan about.

Well put!!

 

[Eric8-A]

'No one likes a winner' is how most of this thread comes across.

Doubt it. I don't think I've ever seen one of people being annoyed at Cancellara winning time trials when he dominated them. I never hated Cancellara for being a sure bet going into a time trial.

 

[Richeypen]

And if he quit that easily I guarantee he wouldn't have a quarter of the wins he has now.

He was apparently throwing his guts up during K-B-K this year but carried on and won. Would have been so so easy to give up and pass the team over to Sutton.

 

[cycladianpirate]

That's ridiculous. He wouldn't have known, 100m into the climb, how the day would end up. When his helpers dropped back, he and his DS would have thought that it was very possible that he could still get back into the race and, even at that point, he represented Sky's best chance.

Can you imagine if he'd said, "no guys, y'all get back up there and help Eddie, I've had enough"? You'd be slaughtering him, right now on this forum, for not having enough guts and throwing the towel in early, wouldn't you?

On that point I think you are most certainly right.

 

[hmsgenoa]

Well put!!

Cheers Jamie, See you on the Col du Grand Colombier? As much as I appreciate Cav, I'm hoping Sky will give Bradley the help he needs - got to be his best chance yet for Yellow, besides Cav will need some encouragement in the mountains! As far as the nonsense on this thread goes it reminds me of Dad's Army - 'They don't like it up 'em Captain Mannering!'

 

[hatcher]

He was apparently throwing his guts up during K-B-K this year but carried on and won. Would have been so so easy to give up and pass the team over to Sutton.

Yep. Similarly Tirreno stage 2, only this time he decided it actually was too much for him so he handed over the reigns to EBH to go for the sprint, which EBH ended up winning.

Those two should examples should stop the claims that he's selfish, and that he should give up as soon as he's faced with adversity.