Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[King Boonen]

LOL at track newbs, August is the new July it seems.

 

[Jagartrott]

Ah, polarising, now patronising.
Several track followers/journalists also felt that Cavendish got off lightly (not the British press, of course).

 

[PremierAndrew]

Whether he should have been disqualified or not is another matter but the accusations that he took Park out on purpose are simply laughable

There is no way you ride into someone on purpose at that speed with banking, knowing it will be to your advantage. Have any of you even raced scratch racing on a velodrome?

I,d have thought if you are prepared for the impact you can stay on the bike and ride away - just like ***** Cavendish.

So why no celebrations after the race - he got silver ?? because he knew he,d cocked up big time....deliberate on all counts ! he should have been disqualified...he's a disgrace.

Or he cocked up big time in the elimination race and wasn't happy about the colour of his medal? Nah, that doesn't fit the story of him taking out other riders on purpose

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

As is the blind hatred by those who aren't fans of his, baying for blood over a clumsy mistake that is quite common on the track.

It was stupid, he was given a warning and the strongest guy still won.

"Blind hatred" - why polarise the argument?
With less luck, Viviani would've been out. If Cavendish then won, would you be OK with that?
This action deserved more than a warning. He took out three guys and caused the race to be neutralised.

Of course I wouldn't have been OK with that, but these things happen on the track. Just the other day in the women's keirin a girl did the same and wiped out 2 riders. Their Olympics were done right there.

The same as if Cav would have crashed due to his mistake and couldn't continue, he would have lost his medal and I wouldn't have felt sorry for him as it was his error, but that's all it was, an error. If you start DQ'ing riders for that in every race the officials would be there all night.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

As is the blind hatred by those who aren't fans of his, baying for blood over a clumsy mistake that is quite common on the track.

It was stupid, he was given a warning and the strongest guy still won.

"Blind hatred" - why polarise the argument?
With less luck, Viviani would've been out. If Cavendish then won, would you be OK with that?
This action deserved more than a warning. He took out three guys and caused the race to be neutralised.

Should Anna Meares have been disqualified for taking out Lee, who was expected to win a medal, in the kierin? *** happens, crashes happen.

 

[del1962]

While it obviously wasn't deliberate Boardman's initial reaction was that Cav could be in trouble, the commissionaires took a different view

 

[Fergoose]

Good on Cavendish for holding his hand up and admitting guilt, unlike some here trying to suggest Park was somehow at fault. It was a terrible bit of cycling and I say that as someone who cheers on Cavendish. I've no idea if, given precedent, his actions should have resulted in a ban. If not, then rules should be tightened up to prevent that sort of thing and encourage a bit more respect for the health of your competitors. A modest points deduction in an event like that would be simple to enforce.

 

[Fergoose]

Re:

While it obviously wasn't deliberate Boardman's initial reaction was that Cav could be in trouble, the commissionaires took a different view

Must have been Boardman being a track newbie unlike the resident internet experts on this forum. I guess August must be the new July indeed!

 

[glassmoon]

i dunno guys... the thing is, Cav has been a *** in many sprints before (road included).

 

[movingtarget]

For a quality sprinter Cavendish is probably the worst bike handler I have ever seen with the amount of crashes he causes track and road !

 

[FilipeFD]

Dirtiest

Rider

EVER

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Exactly. Look at the more extreme move from Viviani on Boudat. He took him all the way down onto the cote d'azur

That was in no way more extreme. Viviani was always on his shoulder and came down gradually, whereas Cavendish swooped almost perpendicular into the Korean.

Watch some actual racing in a real velodrome, your opinion doesn't match the reality commissairs actually judge this incident by.

No, you're wrong here. The judges don't disagree with me that Viviani's move was more extreme, as they didn't give him a warning. Boardman immediately said, and this is someone whose opinion on track in all honesty I respect more than yours, Cavendish could get a warning. This is quite a concession from the rider's national broadcaster, no? In other words, had it been Viviani doing that, Boardman would've called for a warning. He should've got a warning. He didn't get a warning. However clumsy it may be, it was a ridiculously dangerous move. I haven't raced track, but I've been on one before for training, and one of the first things I got told is in a large race if you are planning to move in, then check around you. Park is in hospital, because of Cav's recklessness. For me, that is a warning. The commissaries disagreed, but that happens on the road too - someone gets demoted and there is an argument here. Being 'track noobs' has little to do with disagreeing with the judges.

 

[trucido]

Re: Re:

Exactly. Look at the more extreme move from Viviani on Boudat. He took him all the way down onto the cote d'azur

That was in no way more extreme. Viviani was always on his shoulder and came down gradually, whereas Cavendish swooped almost perpendicular into the Korean.

Watch some actual racing in a real velodrome, your opinion doesn't match the reality commissairs actually judge this incident by.

No, you're wrong here. The judges don't disagree with me that Viviani's move was more extreme, as they didn't give him a warning. Boardman immediately said, and this is someone whose opinion on track in all honesty I respect more than yours, Cavendish could get a warning. This is quite a concession from the rider's national broadcaster, no? In other words, had it been Viviani doing that, Boardman would've called for a warning. He should've got a warning. He didn't get a warning. However clumsy it may be, it was a ridiculously dangerous move. I haven't raced track, but I've been on one before for training, and one of the first things I got told is in a large race if you are planning to move in, then check around you. Park is in hospital, because of Cav's recklessness. For me, that is a warning. The commissaries disagreed, but that happens on the road too - someone gets demoted and there is an argument here. Being 'track noobs' has little to do with disagreeing with the judges.

Clearly from his recent posts in here he knows more about track cycling than Boardman.

 

[huge]

Viviani said it wasn't Cavendish' fault, but Park's because of his bad position as he was overlapping wheels instead of following.

Thinking that Cavendish planned the crash is simply ridiculous and deserves no further comments, being him at fault or not.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

While it obviously wasn't deliberate Boardman's initial reaction was that Cav could be in trouble, the commissionaires took a different view

Must have been Boardman being a track newbie unlike the resident internet experts on this forum. I guess August must be the new July indeed!

FYI

 

[Amnes2015]

“It’s not his fault,” Viviani said. “The Korean guy was halfway on his wheel to the right, normally you stay on the wheel. Cav was in the front and changed direction, so it’s all normal. It’s a normal crash on the track. For sure it was a bad moment in the race.”

case closed

however reading the clueless brit haters on social media is worth a good laugh

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

“It’s not his fault,” Viviani said. “The Korean guy was halfway on his wheel to the right, normally you stay on the wheel. Cav was in the front and changed direction, so it’s all normal. It’s a normal crash on the track. For sure it was a bad moment in the race.”

case closed

however reading the clueless brit haters on social media is worth a good laugh

Yes, nothing to see here, it's just "clueless Brit haters" who are out for blood I bet if Park had been the one to take out Cav the BBC and all new British fans on social media who are suddenly experts on cycling would have been calling for him to be executed. But no, it was Cav who took out some unknown Korean and they all love him because he's British, so anything he does can be excused. It's a freaking disgrace. Whether it was deliberate or not, it was a huge mistake, inexcusable, and he should have been punished. When you pull such a trick on the road, you get relegated to last place. Yet somehow it is okay here?

 

[saganboss]

Re:

“It’s not his fault,” Viviani said. “The Korean guy was halfway on his wheel to the right, normally you stay on the wheel. Cav was in the front and changed direction, so it’s all normal. It’s a normal crash on the track. For sure it was a bad moment in the race.”

case closed

however reading the clueless brit haters on social media is worth a good laugh

yeah, so cav is not guilty of anything, poor guy, i think park should apologise to him, i mean what an idiot and what a bad luck for cav to be taken down by a guy who clearly changed the direction. except it was the other way around.

 

[Fergoose]

I'm more inclined to believe what Cavendish said about it (or Park). Cavendish is clear. "It was my fault". Gracious of Viviani though and I do take his point about Park's positioning not being ideal. But perhaps Park felt safe to be there because Cavendish had just looked over his shoulder twice.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/37090453

In the end, I'm happy for Cavendish to medal and don't think it was intentional as he crashed in a way that could have jeopardised him getting a medal. However, I'd like to see some kind of warning or sanction for reckless manouvers like that in future.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

“It’s not his fault,” Viviani said. “The Korean guy was halfway on his wheel to the right, normally you stay on the wheel. Cav was in the front and changed direction, so it’s all normal. It’s a normal crash on the track. For sure it was a bad moment in the race.”

case closed

however reading the clueless brit haters on social media is worth a good laugh

Yes, nothing to see here, it's just "clueless Brit haters" who are out for blood I bet if Park had been the one to take out Cav the BBC and all new British fans on social media who are suddenly experts on cycling would have been calling for him to be executed. But no, it was Cav who took out some unknown Korean and they all love him because he's British, so anything he does can be excused. It's a freaking disgrace. Whether it was deliberate or not, it was a huge mistake, inexcusable, and he should have been punished. When you pull such a trick on the road, you get relegated to last place. Yet somehow it is okay here?

Hang on, Viviani blames Park and yet it's the British Media's fault? How'd you work that one out?

Personally I think Viviani is wrong and I don't blame Park, it was a racing incident. Comparing track racing to road racing is not relevant, they are very different.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

“It’s not his fault,” Viviani said. “The Korean guy was halfway on his wheel to the right, normally you stay on the wheel. Cav was in the front and changed direction, so it’s all normal. It’s a normal crash on the track. For sure it was a bad moment in the race.”

case closed

however reading the clueless brit haters on social media is worth a good laugh

Yes, nothing to see here, it's just "clueless Brit haters" who are out for blood I bet if Park had been the one to take out Cav the BBC and all new British fans on social media who are suddenly experts on cycling would have been calling for him to be executed. But no, it was Cav who took out some unknown Korean and they all love him because he's British, so anything he does can be excused. It's a freaking disgrace. Whether it was deliberate or not, it was a huge mistake, inexcusable, and he should have been punished. When you pull such a trick on the road, you get relegated to last place. Yet somehow it is okay here?

Track rules are different though, of course on the road this would warrant punishment, but you see this on the track almost every day.

Of course it was a mistake by Cav not to look again when heading down, but it was by no means deliberate. The Korean rider was in no mans land wandering half way up the track, and as Viviani has said, you shouldn't be in a position where you overlap a wheel when a rider shoots down the bank. Had Cav been in parks position I would say exactly the same, it happens all the time on the track, it's unfortunate but that's how it is.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Hang on, Viviani blames Park and yet it's the British Media's fault? How'd you work that one out?

Personally I think Viviani is wrong and I don't blame Park, it was a racing incident. Comparing track racing to road racing is not relevant, they are very different.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I only quoted the post to reply to the last sentence. The rest is just a rant about what a disgrace it is that he didn't get a penalty. Regardless of the differences between track and road cycling, endangering other riders or influencing the outcome with a dangerous move gets punished in both disciplines. I've seen riders get relegated. Even Kennett got a penalty during the race. But Cav's move was all okay, apparently.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Hang on, Viviani blames Park and yet it's the British Media's fault? How'd you work that one out?

Personally I think Viviani is wrong and I don't blame Park, it was a racing incident. Comparing track racing to road racing is not relevant, they are very different.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I only quoted the post to reply to the last sentence. The rest is just a rant about what a disgrace it is that he didn't get a penalty. Regardless of the differences between track and road cycling, endangering other riders or influencing the outcome with a dangerous move gets punished in both disciplines. Except in this case.

Except it's perfectly legal to headbutt other riders in the Kierin to fight for position

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Except it's perfectly legal to headbutt other riders in the Kierin to fight for position

Headbutts can go unpunished on the road as well when it's just to "fight for position". There are nuances, of course, but making such a big mistake should be inexcusable.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Hang on, Viviani blames Park and yet it's the British Media's fault? How'd you work that one out?

Personally I think Viviani is wrong and I don't blame Park, it was a racing incident. Comparing track racing to road racing is not relevant, they are very different.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I only quoted the post to reply to the last sentence. The rest is just a rant about what a disgrace it is that he didn't get a penalty. Regardless of the differences between track and road cycling, endangering other riders or influencing the outcome with a dangerous move gets punished in both disciplines. I've seen riders get relegated. Even Kennett got a penalty during the race. But Cav's move was all okay, apparently.

Thanks. As has been pointed out, the move Cavendish made is made many, many, many times in track racing, Viviani made a very similar move. What you are asking for is done, people do get DQ'd and penalised for dangerous moves, breaking rules etc. Penalising Cavendish in this case would have set a dangerous precedent. You would then have to penalise everyone who made a similar move,regardless of the outcome. incidents happen and crashes happen, this was a racing incident.