Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Hang on, Viviani blames Park and yet it's the British Media's fault? How'd you work that one out?

Personally I think Viviani is wrong and I don't blame Park, it was a racing incident. Comparing track racing to road racing is not relevant, they are very different.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I only quoted the post to reply to the last sentence. The rest is just a rant about what a disgrace it is that he didn't get a penalty. Regardless of the differences between track and road cycling, endangering other riders or influencing the outcome with a dangerous move gets punished in both disciplines. I've seen riders get relegated. Even Kennett got a penalty during the race. But Cav's move was all okay, apparently.

Thanks. As has been pointed out, the move Cavendish made is made many, many, many times in track racing, Viviani made a very similar move. What you are asking for is done, people do get DQ'd and penalised for dangerous moves, breaking rules etc. Penalising Cavendish in this case would have set a dangerous precedent. You would then have to penalise everyone who made a similar move,regardless of the outcome. incidents happen and crashes happen, this was a racing incident.

In hindsight my call for a DQ was way too harsh and made in the heat of the moment, and he shouldn't have been penalised. However a warning wouldn't have gone amiss, IMO.

 

[TMP402]

So... time for a break and then onto the (road) World Championships?

 

[yaco]

I'd like Cavendish to target Paris Roubaix in 2017 - Reckon he could make the final selection if he gets in the right breaks. Could be competitive in one or two of the other cobbled races.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Hang on, Viviani blames Park and yet it's the British Media's fault? How'd you work that one out?

Personally I think Viviani is wrong and I don't blame Park, it was a racing incident. Comparing track racing to road racing is not relevant, they are very different.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I only quoted the post to reply to the last sentence. The rest is just a rant about what a disgrace it is that he didn't get a penalty. Regardless of the differences between track and road cycling, endangering other riders or influencing the outcome with a dangerous move gets punished in both disciplines. I've seen riders get relegated. Even Kennett got a penalty during the race. But Cav's move was all okay, apparently.

Thanks. As has been pointed out, the move Cavendish made is made many, many, many times in track racing, Viviani made a very similar move. What you are asking for is done, people do get DQ'd and penalised for dangerous moves, breaking rules etc. Penalising Cavendish in this case would have set a dangerous precedent. You would then have to penalise everyone who made a similar move,regardless of the outcome. incidents happen and crashes happen, this was a racing incident.

In hindsight my call for a DQ was way too harsh and made in the heat of the moment, and he shouldn't have been penalised. However a warning wouldn't have gone amiss, IMO.

I thought he was warned? Always good to see people take a rational look at things

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

I'd like Cavendish to target Paris Roubaix in 2017 - Reckon he could make the final selection if he gets in the right breaks. Could be competitive in one or two of the other cobbled races.

Based on what?
Which cobbled race can he be competitive?

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

I'd like Cavendish to target Paris Roubaix in 2017 - Reckon he could make the final selection if he gets in the right breaks. Could be competitive in one or two of the other cobbled races.

Based on what?
Which cobbled race can he be competitive?

Gent's not out of the question and then there are the cobbled races he's already won.

 

[Fernandez]

Hahahaha, I guess I must be an stupid clueless unexpert cyclingfan for not seeing that checking two times behind you a cyclist coming by your left side and then instantly move hard to that side colliding with that cyclist and making no sign of feeling something casual is a regular and routine thing in this discipline of the sport. :lol: :lol:
Nothing more to argue.

 

[Stan955]

https://gfycat.com/CreamyConfusedEkaltadeta ...

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

I'd like Cavendish to target Paris Roubaix in 2017 - Reckon he could make the final selection if he gets in the right breaks. Could be competitive in one or two of the other cobbled races.

Based on what?
Which cobbled race can he be competitive?

Gent's not out of the question and then there are the cobbled races he's already won.

Scheldeprijs ? - the best cobble race in history
Based on what you think he can make the final selection in PR 2017.
Come on.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

https://gfycat.com/CreamyConfusedEkaltadeta ...

Safety first !

 

[Fernandez]

Re:

https://gfycat.com/CreamyConfusedEkaltadeta ...

Yes my friend, that looked something "casual". Hahahahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[spalco]

I suppose the question is whether or not the move was intentional or not. No doubt it was a mistake, but regardless of what many people here think about him, imo Cavendish is a good sportsman, and more importantly, he would be endangering himself also intentionally crashing into another rider.

I don't think an athlete should be disqualified for a mistake unless it's completely reckless.

And anyway, I'm happy he got his medal.

 

[trucido]

Re:

https://gfycat.com/CreamyConfusedEkaltadeta ...

Obviously should have looked back at least 3 times. 2 isn't enough.

 

[Fernandez]

Its *** I N C R E D I B L E people claiming that it was something casual.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

I suppose the question is whether or not the move was intentional or not. No doubt it was a mistake, but regardless of what many people here think about him, imo Cavendish is a good sportsman, and more importantly, he would be endangering himself also intentionally crashing into another rider.

I don't think an athlete should be disqualified for a mistake unless it's completely reckless.

And anyway, I'm happy he got his medal.

yes, really good sportsman. He should be rewarded with fair play price for his lifetime sportsmanship.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I'd like Cavendish to target Paris Roubaix in 2017 - Reckon he could make the final selection if he gets in the right breaks. Could be competitive in one or two of the other cobbled races.

There's no point. Merckx's TdF tally and Cipo's GT stage tallies have to be the priority, maybe even Merckx's GT tally. His 30th place finish this year at PR suggests that he could be a serious contender at GW depending on how the race plays out. Can't see another PR like 2014 for a while though, and that would be Cav's only shot at getting a result there

 

[King Boonen]

While I'm usually all for riders branching out and trying to do well in proper (read Monuments ) racing, I think based on his performances this year it would be very silly of Cavendish to risk his chance of more GT stage wins by trying to win races he really doesn't have a chance in. If this year had been a repeat of the last couple I'd be all for it, but not based on his current performances.

 

[trucido]

Why not MSR as a main target instead of something like P-R? Unless they include Le Manie.

 

[samhocking]

When Cav is looking behind him, remember he's not looking at Park on his wheel guys, he's looking for where Viviani is because Viviani is chasing Rendon because Rendon is on the attack to try and get out of his battle for Bronze and into Silver with Cav. Also Remember Hansen's just gained silver position after his 30 points lap + 2x sprints and Cav now needs to stay with Viviani at all costs. How does he do this? Well for a start he need to get on Viviani's and O'Shea's wheel because they're steaming around the black line below him while Cav is halfway up recovering from his earlier effort and fo some reason Park is on his wheel even though Park is not even in the race for anything other than the ride. Park is totally out of the competition rememeber.

At first, I too thought Cav was looking at Park and messed up and agreed with Boardman, but then you realise what the race situation was and the risk Cav was at from Rendon on the attack taking his Bronze or even Silver if he gained the lap and it Cav's sudden move makes much more sense. Cav simply wanted to gain as much velocity as possible by dropping down the banking and latch onto Viviani & O'Shea, his mind wasn't on Park. Park however would have been aware of Cav and him turning up the banking at the same time Cav is dropping down is as much to do with the crash as Cav dropping down. Park was doing the right thing. He saw Cav looking to Viviani and about to drop down and rightl so, he turned up the banking to slow himself down quickly as he's overlapping Cavs rear wheel. It was just bad luck they both turned at the same time. If Cav went half a second later or Park scrubbed his speed off half a second earlier we wouldn't even be discussing anything.

At the end of the day everyone on the track knows the rider in front will drop down rapidly to gain speed. You do your best to be aware of the bigger picture of where all riders are, but you don't notice if the rider behind is overlapping or not, especially when they're not even part of the race you're focusing on.

The biggest difference between road racing and track is using the banking to speed up and slow down. In a road race this variable doesn;t exist. You speed up with your legs and gears while in a straight line and you slow down using your brakes. On track your whole race is a series of Zig-Zags speeding up and slowing down and that's why you can't simply disqualify someone for dropping down the banking and causing a crash, because it's fundamental to how you must race on the track effectively.

 

[Dedelou]

Re:

When Cav is looking behind him, remember he's not looking at Park on his wheel guys, he's looking for where Viviani is because Viviani is chasing Rendon because Rendon is on the attack to try and get out of his battle for Bronze and into Silver with Cav. Also Remember Hansen's just gained silver position after his 30 points lap + 2x sprints and Cav now needs to stay with Viviani at all costs. How does he do this? Well for a start he need to get on Viviani's and O'Shea's wheel because they're steaming around the black line below him while Cav is halfway up recovering from his earlier effort and fo some reason Park is on his wheel even though Park is not even in the race for anything other than the ride. Park is totally out of the competition rememeber.

At first, I too thought Cav was looking at Park and messed up and agreed with Boardman, but then you realise what the race situation was and the risk Cav was at from Rendon on the attack taking his Bronze or even Silver if he gained the lap and it Cav's sudden move makes much more sense. Cav simply wanted to gain as much velocity as possible by dropping down the banking and latch onto Viviani & O'Shea, his mind wasn't on Park. Park however would have been aware of Cav and him turning up the banking at the same time Cav is dropping down is as much to do with the crash as Cav dropping down. Park was doing the right thing. He saw Cav looking to Viviani and about to drop down and rightl so, he turned up the banking to slow himself down quickly as he's overlapping Cavs rear wheel. It was just bad luck they both turned at the same time. If Cav went half a second later or Park scrubbed his speed off half a second earlier we wouldn't even be discussing anything.

At the end of the day everyone on the track knows the rider in front will drop down rapidly to gain speed. You do your best to be aware of the bigger picture of where all riders are, but you don't notice if the rider behind is overlapping or not, especially when they're not even part of the race you're focusing on.

The biggest difference between road racing and track is using the banking to speed up and slow down. In a road race this variable doesn;t exist. You speed up with your legs and gears while in a straight line and you slow down using your brakes. On track your whole race is a series of Zig-Zags speeding up and slowing down and that's why you can't simply disqualify someone for dropping down the banking and causing a crash, because it's fundamental to how you must race on the track effectively.

here here.. thank you for this post : i can't imagine anything to add .

 

[hfer07]

Re:

“It’s not his fault,” Viviani said. “The Korean guy was halfway on his wheel to the right, normally you stay on the wheel. Cav was in the front and changed direction, so it’s all normal. It’s a normal crash on the track. For sure it was a bad moment in the race.”

case closed

link please?

 

[samhocking]

This is the critical moment and what caused the crash. Park & Cav are looking down to Viviani & O'Shea about to come under in order to drop down and get on their wheel due to Rendon on the attack. Remember Viviani is under attack from Rendon too and why he's chasing him down underneath Cav. Because Park is looking too at the situation, he's not got his eye on Cav and doesn't notice how much he's now overlapping Cav's wheel (a big nono and first lesson of track racing, especially if you're lookign the oppoite direction). Cav's not even looking at Park and so it's simply a racing incident. Park will be the first to say it wasn't Cav's fault I hope.

photo hosting

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

yes, really good sportsman. He should be rewarded with fair play price for his lifetime sportsmanship.

Well, enough of a good sportsman to not accuse him of intentionally crashing into another rider. Park wasn't anywhere near the medals, what the *** would Cavendish gain from doing something like that? And if it wasn't intentional, what is there to punish?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

This is the critical moment and what caused the crash. Park & Cav are looking down to Viviani about to come under in order to drop down and get on their wheel. Because Park is looking too, he doesn't notice how much he's now overlapping Cav's wheel. Cav's not even looking at Park and so it's simply a racing incident. Park will be the first to say it wasn't Cav's fault I hope.

photo hosting

Admittedly, Park didn't do himself any favours by overlapping the wheel but it was Cav's fault

 

[carolina]

Re: Re:

“It’s not his fault,” Viviani said. “The Korean guy was halfway on his wheel to the right, normally you stay on the wheel. Cav was in the front and changed direction, so it’s all normal. It’s a normal crash on the track. For sure it was a bad moment in the race.”

case closed

link please?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/olympic-games-cavendish-admits-blame-for-omnium-crash/

after the tweet