McBikeshops Suck

[richwagmn]

I question the value of the major bike brand names long term. The quality and quantity of the products available from Asia has to be disconcerting to the brand names since those same factories are manufacturing the brand names' frames/components/accessories. .

High end Madones are still hand made in the US. Any other major bike mfgs making carbon frames here?

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

BroDeal---I'd love to have more of your input. As well as from the rest of you.

My 2...

All I want to do is RIDE. When I bring my bike in for repair, all I ask is that we fix it once and fix it right, because the time I have for riding is very limited and precious to me. What I don't want to do is miss a group ride or blow an hour of valuable daylight fixing crap parts or poor handiwork.

*Could* I learn to wrench on my bike? Sure. But I don't want to. I just want to drop it off in the morning, pick it up when its done, and ride the hell out of it after. Where I'm going with this is I'm willing to pay for competence and quality. If I buy a new bike and you know that a few of the stock components aren't going to hold up, just tell me and we'll work out changing out those parts. By the same token, if something is all show and no go, tell me that too. The guy that tells me that $150 pedals will likely only make me $100 poorer than $50 pedals is the one I trust.

What turns people to the internet are the shops run by complete boobs that I have to keep bringing my bike back to over and over and OVER.... to fix stuff that should have never needed fixing.

Do good work and I'll support you and your shop forever.

If you haven't been reading the "Ask Nick" columns on Velonews, please do check them out. Lots of common sense and practicality with no mysticism. A lot of people would support a bike shop like that.

 

[DarkWarrior]

High end Madones are still hand made in the US. Any other major bike mfgs making carbon frames here?

AFAIK, only the Trek 6 Series are still hand made in the US.

 

[_yngve_]

Back when I worked in a shop (many moons ago), the bikes were low-margin to, in some cases, loss leaders. It was the shop time, small parts, and accessories that made all of the $$. I've since operated under the assumption that this is still the case, thus I make a point of purchasing this high-margin stuff (bar tape, tubes, tires, armwarmers, legwarmers, socks, cables, housing, etc.) from my LBS.

However, I generally rely upon alternate sources (internet retailers, ebay, craigslist, etc.) for larger purchases. Now, by doing so, I realize I'm arguably diverting money that would likely otherwise go to my local shop. However, but for the economics of making these purchases through means other than my LBS, they probably wouldn't be made. So, for those in the know, I'm curious about the degree to which making what I perceive to be dollar-for-dollar more profitable purchases at the LBS level is actually benefiting them.

 

[moyeux]

AFAIK, only the Trek 6 Series are still hand made in the US.

I've been wondering about this lately...seems this year the TCT version of the madone has replaced the OCLV version in the 5 series and with even higher prices...at least here in my local lbs...i live in montpellier, france...the oclv frames start in the 6 series and are very expensive...

I guess i wonder how good these tct frames are...are they worth the money now?...a friend who works at the bike shop recommended the specialized roubaix to me instead of the trek if i considered going with a tct frame...i guess he thinks the specialized frame is the better option at the price point...but he did recommend the oclv madone over the specialized...

wish i had the budget for a good Time frame...but i don't...and even the Look frames look well made, the 586 for example...though a few guys i ride with tell me of problems with bottom bracket sleeves getting loose in the frames...

hard to tell these days about quality and bang for buck...at least as a customer who isn't in the bike biz...

some days i want to just find an old columbus slx or derosa primato frame and call it a day...was it simpler in the eighties and nineties?...

happily, although the stores here are chain stores, they do carry a big selection of product from different manufacturers even though they carry trek and cannondale and specialized, etc...

 

[Notso Swift]

Maybe that is because France has a more educated consumer base?

In Australia, and the US NZ Canada (and little lesser in the UK), cycling is a middle class pursuit with a LOT of MAMIL's driving the market (Middle Aged Men in Lycra) hence high disposable income and marketing/branding being key to part with you hard earnerd. Our Cycling culture really only goes back to the early 80's, with some notable exceptions. Before that in Aus it was all about Track, and to be more precise, betting on bike races

From what I have seen on the continent cycling was historically driven by the grass roots and is certainly more egalitarian.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Consumers will always demand choice; there will always be a place for alternative products. While streamlining their operations by eliminating independent resellers might be one way of increasing profits, it's not the only way, and I say, it's a very risky way.

I generally disagree with this. Consumers demand the appearance of a choice. In the shops in question, a set of tools branded Treck is next to another branded Fischer. Different price, different bits and bobs. That's enough choice for most consumers.

Eliminating independents is not risky. What does a Treck stand to lose with less competition in any given locale?

Lastly, I hardly believe there exists a cabal among the big bike companies whose sole motive is to drive prices up after having laid to waste all of the mom and pop bike shops out there. Trust me, they're not that smart (or stupid!).

You super-charged my assertion and made it ridiculous by adding the cabal idea. No cabal. A Treck shop is not more expensive to run than trying to herd even a well-run Independent shop or three. The financial side makes perfect sense. Churn through the part time help while the store's displays sells stuff by itself. This is what I see at the local Performance store.

In this situation the Independents don't need much more competition to drive them out of business given the fact most 'live the dream' hand-to-mouth. We agree that there's business acumen missing in many shops.

I also agree with the general strategy mentioned as a way to be successful without the big brands. The big brands know what they are doing and have the resources at this point to pull off the vertical/silo approach.

 

[ustabe]

We agree that there's business acumen missing in many shops.

I also agree with the general strategy mentioned as a way to be successful without the big brands. The big brands know what they are doing and have the resources at this point to pull off the vertical/silo approach.

Regarding business acumen, what we as serious riders like to see in a shop is not necessarily what will keep the shop in business. Last year a shop that tried to cater to the high-end road business closed its doors. They were ignoring the young, fit families that lived right in their neighborhood.

Regarding the big brands, they might be boring but they're big for a good reason. They understand the most profitable segments of the market and produce the bikes that meet them. Right now, families are the most profitable segment and Trek, Specialized, and Giant are the family marketing leaders.

Concept stores make it easy for independently owned shops by offering furnishings, marketing strategies, and preferential financing. Personally, I find them to be a bore, but then I'd rather be out riding or lacing my own wheels at the kitchen table. And that's why I'm not a targeted customer.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Back when I worked in a shop (many moons ago), the bikes were low-margin to, in some cases, loss leaders. It was the shop time, small parts, and accessories that made all of the $$. I've since operated under the assumption that this is still the case, thus I make a point of purchasing this high-margin stuff (bar tape, tubes, tires, armwarmers, legwarmers, socks, cables, housing, etc.) from my LBS.

However, I generally rely upon alternate sources (internet retailers, ebay, craigslist, etc.) for larger purchases. Now, by doing so, I realize I'm arguably diverting money that would likely otherwise go to my local shop. However, but for the economics of making these purchases through means other than my LBS, they probably wouldn't be made. So, for those in the know, I'm curious about the degree to which making what I perceive to be dollar-for-dollar more profitable purchases at the LBS level is actually benefiting them.

Lowest margin 'thing' in a bike shop is still a bike. Just the dollars paid and then MSRP make it so but a bike shop has to add build and some free service after the sale plus maybe bike fits...which all lower margin still.

That's why there are concept stores, just like car dealers. They have 'deals' with the factory, better financing, kickbacks and all sorts of incentives that keep the lights on. Much less risk for the owner, he 'owns' the store but really works for the factory.

High margin items are service, service, service, soft goods and small bits, like tubes. High margin but relatively low prices so that big margin doesn't hurt the sale. $5.50 for a tube is about average..but they cost much less than that. $12 for bar tape.

Also look in normal city, USA... 5-6 car dealers and 20 or more car repair places..bike shops should notice this business model. I did here and it works just fine. My biz models are Hoshi Motors, Swedish Motors, Pinson Automotive..Boulder, look it up.

 

[Barracuda]

LBS vs Online

Would much prefer to deal with a local bike shop for service / small end gear as it gives me more of a "connection" with the local "scene". However with a young family there is no way I could afford upgrades such as bars / groupsets on my ageing TREK without the sensational prices online.

Hence my dilema ......... maybe my solution is to get to know the LBS owner ...which im trying to do ! Buy all the lower priced / higher profit items through them and get the servicing etc through them and get them to fit the harder (time consuming ) online purchased gear and pay for labour.

 

[Polish]

Would much prefer to deal with a local bike shop for service / small end gear as it gives me more of a "connection" with the local "scene". :

In their new book "The New Rules of Retail", authors Lewis and Dart predict more and more online shoppers will begin to want that "more of a connection" aspect you describe. For various reasons.

They predict companies like Amazon.com will open up brick and mortar shops in addition to their online to facilitate the "connection".

 

[darkcloud]

I shop at the LBS for small items that I need on the spot but tend to purchase online for things that I do not immediately need. Tires, etc.
I would much prefer to buy locally but $$$ is a serious issue.

 

[richwagmn]

AFAIK, only the Trek 6 Series are still hand made in the US.

Yes, and I'm guessing soon all of them will be made overseas. A sad commentary on misguided economic policies. Not to derail the thread, but thisis certainly worth a read on the subject.

 

[TheDude]

The Performance stores are even worse than Trek.

Here is what I find a bit sad. I was forced to mail-order buy a bike last week. My son is turning 4. He has a 12" run-bike, perfect balance and needs a real bike, but is too small for a 16". You can not buy a 14" bike in the U.S. I have a Dawes coming from the UK (islabikes wouldn't ship).

I went to 4 or 5 local shops, most of the staff was great. It wasn't the shops fault, it was the U.S. market - nobody cares to get their kid on a good quality bike and that means in the future even fewer people with the love of cycling. I remember all of my childhood bikes from a tiny Schwinn with stabilizers to a Gitane 3-speed racer when I was about 8. Those bikes were freedom.

My nephews have wall-mart hunks of junk that can't be fit and maintained properly, but a really nice LCD TV or 2 in the house. Bike shops are in trouble because people don't ride - starting with childhood.

 

[Martin318is]

Maybe new riders, yuppies exchanging cycling for golf, or women like stores that look and feel like The Gap. Maybe the "Ye Old Bike Shop" experience intimidates potential customers.

I agree with you that this is a likely issue, however for me the opposite is true so its doubly painful.

I'm an overweight and middleaged rider with 20 years+ of racing experience. When I walk into an old shop in a new town and meet the local owner I'm not intimidated because I know what I am talking about and can find things to connect with him on. Easiest way is to spot something old lying around and launch an anecdote about when you had one (or whatever).

When I walk into a chain store (think Evans in the UK, Bicycle Superstores or GoldCross Cyclies in Australia, etc) I meet a teenage total muppet who instantly visibly classifies me as a newbie rider. I go in looking for a specific bolt for a disc brake mount and get nowhere because he is so busy asking whether its for a hybrid or MTB that he can't hear me trying to explain that thats irrelevant.

(of course this is dependant on whether I wear jeans or shorts - in jeans I am a fat ******, in shorts I clearly have racers legs.... struggling to support a fat ******)

For the new rider I think the old shop is intimidating but for the experienced rider its really hard to not want to punch the sales staff in a chain store.

 

[blaxland]

As someone who has worked in the industry for the past 27 years the internet is something we cannot compete with(regaurding prices).But the unique area which good bike shops have is service.Not only customer service but bicycle servicing and maintenance...Something i have noticed over the last two years is lack of sales in the high end.(Bikes over $2500.00 RRP in Aus)Doesnt matter whether its MTB or Road or Track.Consumers that come into my store having already purchased their bikes overseas,seek my experience regaurding gear and Brake adjusts...Just remember not all Mcbike shops suck....some do care..And just a side note Looking after customers needs and wants can lead to good relationships between store employees and customers.and maybe even a case or two around Christmas time..

 

[Martin318is]

I disagree.

I have never yet walked into an outlet for a large chain bikeshop that didn't absolutely suck. I will only go in out of desperation for something like a spare tube now.

Whereever possible in all circumstances I will frequent a local non-chain bike shop. the service and knowledge is ALWAYS better.

 

[Fieldsprint]

I am perfectly willing to pay reasonable retail price if I am treated like a client. is it that hard to create a data base on a customer and offer personalized recommendations based on past experience or inquiry?

Bingo! If a LBS wants to be competitive --at least with the mid to high end market -- they need to focus on service and attention to detail. They certainly can't compete on price...

In the classic sales book, "How to Master the Art of Selling," Tom Hopkins goes into great detail about what he calls the 'itch cycle.' As the name implies, the itch cycle is the average time a customer waits before purchasing something new. In the book, he outlines how this would work with boat sales, but the exact same mechanism works in bike sales.

Send personalized notes...even make phone calls to established customers to let them know when new models arrive so they can swing by and take a test ride. Let's face it, high end bike purchasers love new equipment, so why not take a minute and invite Joe Client down to take a look at the new Di2, for example.

Trust me....no one else is. And you think he's going to buy it online after you have reached out to him like this? Not likely.

Another interesting book that uses an auto dealership as a model is Customers For Life by Carl Sewall.

I know creating a data base and reaching out to clients may seem like a pain -- and most won't do it -- but people really respond to this level of treatment when it comes to their passions.

Itch cycle blog post
Short itch cycle video

 

[Hmmmmm]

I disagree.

I have never yet walked into an outlet for a large chain bikeshop that didn't absolutely suck. I will only go in out of desperation for something like a spare tube now.

Whereever possible in all circumstances I will frequent a local non-chain bike shop. the service and knowledge is ALWAYS better.

I agree with you 100%. I have bought tubes and CO2s at the local TREK store and I regret even doing that. These spit-polished types of stores suck in my opinion. Every time I go in there I come out feeling like an idiot - either because they can't answer my questions and I wonder why, or because I try to strike up a cycling conversation which tends to go absolutely nowhere. WTF? I'm in a bike shop, let's talk about bikes a little.

To me, it's a huge problem concerning these superstores vs LBS vs online. The superstores cater to the average person who could give a rats *** what the different parts on a bike are called. The LBShops in my area typically do not stock things that I like - that includes clothing, Campy parts, etc. Online is priced right but I can't hold it in my hand. There is one bike shop in my area that I have been in twice and there is hope. It is not the closest but I am going to try to go there for now on. A lot people on my group rides could care less because a lot of them ride TREK and Specialized bikes. They can ride what they want but these brands are just everywhere. Rant off now!

I find it sad that censorship goes to the point of not displaying a 3 letter word that is a synonym for donkey - that being a$$. It is not just the McBikeShop that makes me scratch my head!

 

[durianrider]

I think there is more to this than we might think. The arrogance and attitude in many small boutique bike shops here is so cal is appalling. Whether it is the mechanic telling you how f'ed up you stuff is or intentionally reminding a novice that they are a novice or the cling-on groupie customer who hangs out telling everyone how great he is....scares off new potential customers just sucke to me

but they make it on vibe. they sell vibe and after all the bike industry is a about the vibe whatever it is and it is either a mtb shop or a roadie shop. they do not co-exist successfully

I am perfectly willing to pay reasonable retail price if I am treated like a client. is it that hard to create a data base on a customer and offer personalized recommendations based on past experience or inquiry? over time and keep them involved?

Bike fit and fitness levels and seasonal conditions dictate my buying patterns.



I am not defending the superstore around the corner from my home who ignore me because they know I am not going to buy a new bike every time i walk in for a tube and a gel


With all that said. I have become quite a proficient mechanic by default. 1 because I cant deal with some jackass and 2 because parts and labor are not cheap and I go through cassettes and chains like socks bad wheel trues are more common. It just sucks when you buy a top line bike from a shop and turn you first 1200 miles ni under 4 weeks and they forget who you are when you need a chain and a rear tire and charge full pop and put your bike in a line for 4 days. I just ask that they remember my fit and quirks and keep me on the road

You should print this out and send it to all the bike shop managers you know... You dont have to have a return address..

 

[oldborn]

Bingo! If a LBS wants to be competitive --at least with the mid to high end market -- they need to focus on service and attention to detail. They certainly can't compete on price...

In the classic sales book, "How to Master the Art of Selling," Tom Hopkins goes into great detail about what he calls the 'itch cycle.' As the name implies, the itch cycle is the average time a customer waits before purchasing something new. In the book, he outlines how this would work with boat sales, but the exact same mechanism works in bike sales.

Send personalized notes...even make phone calls to established customers to let them know when new models arrive so they can swing by and take a test ride. Let's face it, high end bike purchasers love new equipment, so why not take a minute and invite Joe Client down to take a look at the new Di2, for example.

Trust me....no one else is. And you think he's going to buy it online after you have reached out to him like this? Not likely.

Another interesting book that uses an auto dealership as a model is Customers For Life by Carl Sewall.

I know creating a data base and reaching out to clients may seem like a pain -- and most won't do it -- but people really respond to this level of treatment when it comes to their passions.

Itch cycle blog post
Short itch cycle video

You are just wright. But that client database should not be creating as some police interogation as i discovered before couple of months ago. Instead telling me why he need it, guy just started to shoot questions about me, wtf??

Local bike shops as somone mentioned should depends on great mechanics, face-face communication, frendly approach, better cyclist understanding....
Targeted people should also be more hardcore cyclist.

But very important issue here is location, here is one example. There is small old bike shop owned by ex-cyclist in a downtown, but their first neighbors are Jamis, Voodoo etc bike shop with kids bmx, freestyle, freeride, DH bullsh... gears, and guess whoo Fuji-Trek megastore. He does not have a chance, and he is looking for new place, cos he do not have a money to compete them.

 

[laziali]

The online business must be killing the bike shops. I still get my bike serviced at the LBS occasionally but if anything needs replacing I'm online placing an order.

I know of two shops that have specialised in cycle coaching and they seem to be doing very well.

Bold bit. Wrong as far as I can tell. Bit of a hot issue where I am from (Ostraya). We have a store retailer called Harvey Norman that has been running a scare campaign against on-line buying, saying it is going to put aussie retailers out of business etc etc and arguing that on-line purchases should incur GST (a 10% indirect tax similar to the UK's VAT) just as they do on in-store purchases. As it happens, it is all smoke and mirrors - only 4% of retail purchases in Ostraya are on-line, and half of those are from Aussie retailers!

I think what is happeneing here, Polyarmour, is that we on-line forum types are very comfortable buying on-line (I for one get almost all of my stuff from UK online sites) but the general bike buying public are not.

 

[baker0127]

Bike shops

Hello all, I currently co-own/run a shop, I am sorry to read about some of your horrible experiences with shops. I can tell you that when a customer comes to my shop whether they purchase a .99 item, a $100.00 item, nothing at all or just to come in and ask questions I treat them as I would want to be treated no matter what. I don't ever or will ever try and sell something to someone that they don't need, my shop is NOT about those things. In the future I hope things are different for some of you concerning your experiences with LBS's. Take care. JB

 

[marathon marke]

Hello all, I currently co-own/run a shop, I am sorry to read about some of your horrible experiences with shops. I can tell you that when a customer comes to my shop whether they purchase a .99 item, a $100.00 item, nothing at all or just to come in and ask questions I treat them as I would want to be treated no matter what. I don't ever or will ever try and sell something to someone that they don't need, my shop is NOT about those things. In the future I hope things are different for some of you concerning your experiences with LBS's. Take care. JB

I worked for a shop 30 years ago, back when the mail order (now online) companies were seen as a threat and would put the LBS out of business. But it never turned out that way. I think when a shop conducts business and treats their customers as you describe, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[rickshaw]

First a confession. I have not read all that came before on this thread.

Walk into a big glitzy bike shop with razzle dazzle merchandising and the guy you talk to is an idiot. = Blame the Sprawl Mall bike shop.

Walk into a LBS (often dingy and under stocked) and the guy you talk to is an idiot. = Blame the idiot.

I'm just grateful whenever I can find someone who can give me the help I need w/o any attitude.