Me Thinks Andy Should Ride The Giro in 2012

[Angliru]

Maybe a better way of putting it would be that he just needs to race more? In my view, he just doesn't race enough, particularly in stage races to be totally switched on and understand the nuances of a race - how to read your opponents, when to attack etc. in the way that Contador does for example. As it is, he just seems to soft pedal through the first 6 months of the year and then gets caught out at the Tour. Very frustrating to watch someone who is clearly very talented but has such a rubbish attitude.

Andy's response to his riding under Bruyneel-that he has no plans on changing his approach to racing etc.- doesn't bode well for his improving on his shortcomings. Sounds more like the makings of major conflict. He often reminds me of a spoiled rich kid that is used to having his way in the world and having things handed to him. Too stubborn to see that his current path and results, while for most riders would be more than satisfactory, is for a rider of his abilities, far less than it should be. I've little acknowledgement from him of the opportunity for growth under the mentorship of Bruyneel, only that he plans to work on his TT and the stubborn statement of implied denial that his attitude needs to improve.

 

[Matthijs]

Bruyneel invented the half year cycling calender I think, so probably Schleck isn't going to change much. Did Sastre won anything weeklong before his tour? He hasn't a very long palmares...

 

[Anonymous]

too many dangerous descents..

 

[mb2612]

Bruyneel invented the half year cycling calender I think, so probably Schleck isn't going to change much. Did Sastre won anything weeklong before his tour? He hasn't a very long palmares...

No, it was his first GC win, although his top tens at a GT before the tour go:
8-10-9-8-5-2-3-4-4-2-1.

So he had momentum on his side which is psychologically very useful, whereas Andy has stagnated for the past two years.

 

[cineteq]

Forget the Giro, he should concentrate on winning a one week stage race. I firmly believe that, more than anything, will help him finally get over the hurdle and stand on the top podium of a Grand Tour.

Ditto by Publicus, but the Giro is his best bet for GT.

 

[LaFleur]

Wasn't Fuglsang guaranteed leadership in the Giro for the next year in order to sign him? Not sure how Andy will take it being a domestique

 

[airstream]

Don't you really understand that Schleck would crush Nibali and Scarponi the same way as Contador did it??! I dont get why you adduce an ITT argument. Are there any riders in the Giro field who can beat Schleck because of the better ITT? Its not interesting. Andy realizes that pretty good.

 

[The Hitch]

Noted.The point being that Andy Schleck is trying to win the tour without first winning a smaller stg race.If he succeeds he will be one of a minority including Oscar Pereiro.
Basically he should go and win Paris Nice ( or similar) first.

What did Sastre win? As i recall including stages, he has something like only 10 victories in his entire career.

 

[cineteq]

What did Sastre win? As i recall including stages, he has something like only 10 victories in his entire career.

I didn't do a super search, but you seem right he won no 1-week stage race before winning the Tour. Which reminds me, how did Pereiro and Sastre win the Tour exactly?

 

[The Hitch]

Don't you really understand that Schleck would crush Nibali and Scarponi the same way as Contador did it??! I dont get why you adduce an ITT argument. Are there any riders in the Giro field who can beat Schleck because of the better ITT? Its not interesting. Andy realizes that pretty good.

No way can Schleck crush Scarponi like Contador did.

Schleck was at Contadors level in 2010, when Contador was at his weakest (see winning a tt 1 year, then coming 4 minutes down).

Judging by Schlecks performance this year, he seems to have regressed. either way he has never shown anything like Contadors 2009 or Giro 2011 form.

 

[The Hitch]

I didn't do a super search, but you seem right he won no 1-week stage race before winning the Tour. Which reminds me, how did Pereiro and Sastre win the Tour exactly?

In Sastres case by beating everyone in front of him (all the best gt riders bar Contador and Levi).

In Perreiros case, kind of like Tommy Voeckler would have won it had he not tried to follow Contador / Had he got a lucky mechanical problem minutes after trying to follow Contador

By getting a small advantage from a break and putting in an awesome performance in the Alpes to hold onto it.

 

[cineteq]

In Sastres case by beating everyone in front of him (all the best gt riders bar Contador and Levi).

In other words, like Evans won this year. LOL!

PS: Actually Sastre won with the huge help of the Schlecks who sacrificed themselves for the guy, especially Frank, and very bad luck by Evans.

 

[Ragerod]

Not going to happen until he wins the tour or ends up on a team that values the Giro.

 

[The Hitch]

In other words, like Evans won this year. LOL!

Yes, but more top riders were missing

 

[patrick767]

As for one week races, he isn't suited to them anyway, as has been pointed out. I am pretty sure that all of Paris-Nice, Pais Vasco, Romandie, Dauphne and Swiss had significant TT this year. And just look at the winners. Martin, Kloden, Evans, Wiggins and Leipheimer. A who's who of time trialers first, climbers second. And then there is the race in California, which was won by Horner.

Agreed. So many of the 1 week stage races can be won by a great time trialer who hangs on in the mountains. That's the main reason Leipheimer is so good in one week stage races.

I don't have a problem with that. These riders know what it takes to win the one week stage races and they do it. Guys like Leipheimer aren't going to win a GC though and conversely Andy Schleck will have a tough time against them in one week races.

 

[Angliru]

In other words, like Evans won this year. LOL!

PS: Actually Sastre won with the huge help of the Schlecks who sacrificed themselves for the guy, especially Frank, and very bad luck by Evans.

Well they were all on the same team, so that was the least they could do considering Sastre was Saxo Bank's last hope at the start of the Alpe d'Huez stage, even with Frank in yellow at the time. In case you don't recall, Andy was out of contention by that time and Frank's only hope was to gain BIG minutes on Evans to make up for the hemorraghe of time that he would be giving back at the upcoming ITT. I recall a complaint from Andy about "a teammate attacking the yellow jersey" as if Frank had a chance to win the Tour at that point. Sastre of course saved the Tour for Saxo.

I sometimes get the impression on this forum that some believe Sastre had little to do with his Tour win as if he was carried to the podium on the huge shoulders of the Schleck brothers. Since Sastre's victory they, the Schleck Bros. have had multiple opportunities to win the Tour or even get a grand tour win, but their record since that time speaks for it's self.

 

[airstream]

No way can Schleck crush Scarponi like Contador did.
Schleck was at Contadors level in 2010, when Contador was at his weakest (see winning a tt 1 year, then coming 4 minutes down).
Judging by Schlecks performance this year, he seems to have regressed. either way he has never shown anything like Contadors 2009 or Giro 2011 form.

Anyways, Contador beat Schleck internally the only time, on the Verbier. Not only because of TT. Its not accidently. I think he realized his not very good level of form for as TT also in 2010 but didnt attack knowing he's not stronger and can turn himself upside down. Contador didnt crush Nibali and Scarponi literally, he broke them mentally on the Etna. Nibali agreed with defeat at once. He even didnt raise head up after Contador's attack. Scarponi tried, but it's not an explosive climber, working on extremely big gears, disable to handle himself well sometimes. All the rest MTF Contador seemed to attack in a lazy manner in comparison to how he goes ahead on the TdF... I dont assure Schleck would kill them too, I just dont exclude that may happen.
Sorry for English, hopefully you got my idea.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Sastre attacking at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez was a masterstroke, don't understand how Andy could possibly whine about it. After all, with Sastre up the road, Fränk had a better chance of gaining the time he needed, because he could afford to sit on while everyone chased Sastre, allowing him to be fresher and gain time later on.

It was just that Sastre was better than that, and the chase was disunified so that by the time attacks started to come, rather than just pacing from the running-on-fumes Kohl, Sastre was the one in the box seat and instead of Fränk being able to catch a free ride using Sastre as an excuse, Fränk chasing the chasers became Fränk breaking up the momentum of the group because Sastre's advantage was big enough that he was now CSC's best chance of the win.

 

[Christian]

I think it was a masterpiece put together by Bjarne and for a long time Kohl and Evans and so on didn't realize what was going on. When they did it was too late and the group never got organized because of the brothers Schleck. The same thing could have happened on Galibier this year but Cadel realized early that this was it ... if he didn't ride it would be 2008 all over again. That being said maybe he simply didn't have the power in 2008, the mental capacity, the ITT skills ...

Sastre's ride up the Alpe was great but IMO nothing terribly extraordinary (at least for him!) ... it was his ITT the following day that was really surprising

 

[The Hitch]

Nibali agreed with defeat at once. He even didnt raise head up after Contador's attack. Scarponi tried, but it's not an explosive climber, working on extremely big gears, disable to handle himself well sometimes.

.

Nibali actually tried to go one on one with Contador on Zoncolan.

But the point was that neither of them could stay with him. Nibali didnt try because his tactic has always been to stay with his domestiques and let them tempo him up the climb.

He did the same when Mosquera attacked on Alto de Cotobello.

And it was windy so it was the right choice, especially from 7k out. Trying to stay with Contador like Scarponi did was not the right choice. At least if your in a group theres a 1% chance Contador cracks in the next 7k on his own.

All the rest MTF Contador seemed to attack in a lazy manner in comparison to how he goes ahead on the TdF... I dont assure Schleck would kill them too, I just dont exclude that may happen.
Sorry for English, hopefully you got my idea

Contador didnt crush Nibali and Scarponi literally, he broke them mentally on the Etna

Contador dropped Nibali on every mountain stage and Scarponi on all but 1 mountain stage.

Etna, Grossglockner he dropped both with one far out acceleration.

Zoncolan Scarponi couldnt keep up and Contador toyed with Nibali like a killer whale with a seal it has caught. Dropped him near the end.

Nibali was dropped on Giau, then made it back on the descent, then dropped again. Scarponi was dropped when Contador said "**** this" 5k out on Gardeccia.

Macagnuga Contador dropped both inside the last km to help Tiralongo.

Only Finnestre remains where Nibali was dropped and Contador came in with Scarponi.

Ok and Montevergine if that is a mountain stage.

What am i getting at with this, well first of all shows that Contador broke Nibaliu and Scarponi more than just mentally. By Grossglocknber they were facing eachother so were going 100% and he rode away easily.

Secondly I think that is something that Schleck just could not do. The guy has dropped heads of state less times in his career then Contador did in that Giro. You think Andrew can ride away from guys of that caliber at will, so many times in 2 weeks?

Finaly we look at the time trial. If Contadors dominance was mental, then Scarponi and Nibali could hide from that on Nevgal. Its just them against the clock. And they put in good times. But Contador came in 20 seconds down into the mountain and ended up 35 seconds ahead by the top.

The dominance was much more than mental. It was total.

 

[Greenflame]

It's very unlikely Andy is going to try the Giro any time soon. I'd love to see Frank give the Giro a shot next year. With Kloden, Horner, and Monfort Radioshack/Leopard has enough support for Andy anyway. Frank could do the Giro-Vuelta double and podium on both, perhaps even win one (though I rather doubt he'll ever win a GT) while Andy takes on the Tour as the absolute single leader, without having to worry about his brother.

But since it's the Schlecks, I rather doubt they'll ever do that. They'll just dominate the mountain stages in the Tour with all their riders. I can see the group of favourites now: Schleck, Schleck, Kloden, Horner, Contador. Bruyneel laughing, he has the Tour in his pocket. Until then Contador will attack and ride them all of his wheel. Andy second again, Evans passes Frank for third place in the final TT, and Andy promises again that he'll work on his TT'ing next year and will focus on riding just the Tour even more.

 

[movingtarget]

revenge? LOL- Andy schleck lost the last 2 Tours due to his very own incompetence-not only as a bad ITT'er but as a rider with no sense of tactics-and that's the result of his lack of serious racing throughout the season, so he could develop more skills on how to spot weakness & have a better understanding of how to read & react better during a race.

everything else I do agree.

By revenge I mean that in Schleck's mind he should have won the last two Tours. He will always have bad feelings about the chaingate in 2010 and in 2011 I don't really think he regarded Evans as a real contender for victory. I remember Schleck saying during the 2010 Tour that he did not consider Evans a danger even though Evans ended up in yellow before breaking his elbow. All through the 2011 Tour he only had eyes for Contador and did not wake up to the danger of Evans until the Galibier stage when he went on a long breakaway. The fact that he still thought he had enough time on Evans going into the TT when Evans was in the best form of his career throughout the season shows you how naive Schleck is and how tactically poor he is. He seemed to think that after the 2010 Tour, Contador was going to be his only threat in future grand tours but he did not count on the fighting qualities of riders like Voeckler and Evans. There is no doubting Schleck's talent, it's just the way he uses it that costs him. I think he can do better if Bruyneel can make him more disciplined including more work on the TT and helps out with the tactics which sometimes don't make sense at all.

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

I'd love to see Frank give the Giro a shot next year. With Kloden, Horner, and Monfort Radioshack/Leopard has enough support for Andy anyway. Frank could do the Giro-Vuelta double and podium on both, perhaps even win one (though I rather doubt he'll ever win a GT) while Andy takes on the Tour as the absolute single leader, without having to worry about his brother.

I'd love to see Frank win a GT before his brother (not that I ever really want him to win a GT at all but...). Would make the team discussions fairly interesting I imagine

 

[richo36]

I think all that has to change is his race tatics. Andy needs to follow one simple rule If the stage is a MTF you attack on the last climb, simple. Now with him being in a super team this should be even easier than before. team sets crazy pace up last climb, reduce group to small number, 3-4km to go andy needs to launch. If he follows this rule assuming there is 3-4MTF at least he will be a huge chance of winning. Only contador stands in his way.

 

[User Guide]

Setting a tempo then "launching" with 3-4km to go is exactly what he will try to do and it wont work.He needs it to be broken up man against man then go full beans none of this accelerating and looking back with a scowl.O yes if contadors there that wont work either.Schlek will struggle too podium next year imho.