Me Thinks Andy Should Ride The Giro in 2012

[richo36]

Setting a tempo then "launching" with 3-4km to go is exactly what he will try to do and it wont work.He needs it to be broken up man against man then go full beans none of this accelerating and looking back with a scowl.O yes if contadors there that wont work either.Schlek will struggle too podium next year imho.

Im not saying accelerate then turn around 100meters up the hill to see what the others are doing. Im saying a full on attack. Dont care what the others are doing, just go. Thats why i said change his race tatics. At the moment he rides defensively in the mountains.The tempo is there to reduce the group and put hurt into the others. Sure it might not get him much time, if any on the first MTF, maybe the same on the second but by the 3rd and 4th mtf later in the race im sure it will.

Everyone seems to be forgeting that andys strength is climbing. Yes he needs to get better in the TT but if his not gaining anytime in the mountains it doesnt matter how close he is to Contador and evans in the TT as he will lose the tour anyway.

 

[jens_attacks]

it won't happen in the next 4 years.

 

[movingtarget]

To win grand tours these days you have to be an allrounder. You have to be pretty good at everything like Contador and Armstrong and Evans. Schleck can't gain enough time with his climbing and his TT is not as good as other contenders. It says a lot when he does not even ride the TT course before the actual stage. Bruyneel will expect more than that. That being said I still think the 2012 Tour could still be an interesting race and a close one.

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

The thing is, he could get himself a sufficient buffer in the mountains if he put his mind to it, and rode aggressively, so that the TT wouldn't be such an issue. As richo36 says, his strength is his climbing, but at the moment he uses it poorly - either because he wants to Frank to come with him, or he lacks the ability to know how or when to attack properly. The pyrenees this year was the perfect example.

As to whether he would even consider riding next year's Giro, this stage guarantees that he won't. An MBF?!?! How unfair!

Km. 73 Passo Valparola 13 kms-6% (13%)
Km. 129,2 Passo Duran 12,2 kms-8,1% (14%)
Km. 150,1 Forcella Staulanza 12,3 kms-6,9%
Km. 169,6 Passo Giau 9,9 kms-9,3% (14%)

 

[gregrowlerson]

GC riders and the GT they should focus on in 2012:

Contador - TDF
A Schleck - Giro
F Schleck - TDF; nice to give him his own shot as undisputed leader.
Menchov - TDF
Evans - TDF
Basso/Nibali - Giro; Ivan may have missed his TDF chance now, and Nibali may not be able to challenge Contador until at least 2013.
Scarponi - Vuelta
Froome/Wiggins - TDF
Kreuzinger/Braijkovic - TDF
Rodriguez - Vuelta
Cobo - Vuelta
S Sanchez - TDF

How much benefit does it give a rider to skip the Giro and just ride the Vuelta? Because Nibali and Scarponi didn't back up well this year, I'm thinking that more lesser GC riders should just focus on the Vuelta - the risk is that you throw away other races to possibly win it. The thing is, is that a rider may have full focus on the Giro for 7-8 months, or for the TDF for longer still, so the traditional few months (or even 6 weeks) full focus on the Vuelta is not really a lot.

 

[SHAD0W93]

GC riders and the GT they should focus on in 2012:

Contador - TDF
A Schleck - Giro
F Schleck - TDF; nice to give him his own shot as undisputed leader.
Menchov - TDF
Evans - TDF
Basso/Nibali - Giro; Ivan may have missed his TDF chance now, and Nibali may not be able to challenge Contador until at least 2013.
Scarponi - Vuelta
Froome/Wiggins - TDF
Kreuzinger/Braijkovic - TDF
Rodriguez - Vuelta
Cobo - Vuelta
S Sanchez - TDF

How much benefit does it give a rider to skip the Giro and just ride the Vuelta? Because Nibali and Scarponi didn't back up well this year, I'm thinking that more lesser GC riders should just focus on the Vuelta - the risk is that you throw away other races to possibly win it. The thing is, is that a rider may have full focus on the Giro for 7-8 months, or for the TDF for longer still, so the traditional few months (or even 6 weeks) full focus on the Vuelta is not really a lot.

Some changes.
Andy TdF
Frank GdI
Basso GdI and VaE Nibali support
Kreuzinger Giro and VaE while Janez supports.
Valverde Everything

 

[greenedge]

Send Kloden to the Giro. Andy and Frank will not be seperated however much sense it makes.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Send Kloden to the Giro. Andy and Frank will not be seperated however much sense it makes.

No! Even at his best the Giro mountains were likely too hard for him (see 2008; did he perform badly in the high mountains because he was ill, or did the mountains make him sick?!). A support role at the TDF or lead role at the Vuelta is the way to go. Maybe Fulgsang, Monfort or Horner for the Giro if the Schlecks don't ride it.

 

[jens_attacks]

i would like to see frank having a go at giro next year.won't happen though

 

[hrotha]

To win grand tours these days you have to be an allrounder. You have to be pretty good at everything like Contador and Armstrong and Evans. Schleck can't gain enough time with his climbing and his TT is not as good as other contenders.

Of course he can gain enough time with his climbing, he just won't try because he thinks he's losing his races in the ITT, which in my opinion is completely wrong. There have been many GT winners in the past 10 years who didn't TT better than Andy.

I think he's losing his races in the mountains, by not exploiting the stages that suit him to take time whenever he can. Apparently he wants to win with one attack.

 

[movingtarget]

Of course he can gain enough time with his climbing, he just won't try because he thinks he's losing his races in the ITT, which in my opinion is completely wrong. There have been many GT winners in the past 10 years who didn't TT better than Andy.

I think he's losing his races in the mountains, by not exploiting the stages that suit him to take time whenever he can. Apparently he wants to win with one attack.

Yes in the mountains uphill and downhill. There was no excuse for him to lose over a minute on the Pau stage of the TDF. Either he is scared or he does not have faith in his bike handling on the downhills. The Weylandts tragedy probably did not help. His descending is pretty mediocre at times.

Evans can be more calculating because when he is in form he has a great TT in him and he knows his abilities better than Schleck knows his own abilities. He can't ride like Evans and win and he can't ride like Contador and win. What he can do is take more risks by attacking more in the mountains even if it means getting out in front on the downhills so as he does not lose time on the descents. He is looking for an easy way to win and there isn't one. One thing he should have learnt from this year is that he can't afford to keep concentrating on the whereabouts of Frank and Contador and disregard the rest of the race.

After the disappointment of 2010 I was expecting a much more aggressive ride from him in 2011's TDF but he simply did not have the form plus he made the usual tactical errors. I will be interested to see whether Bruyneel changes Schleck's racing schedule. Evans changed his with great success. Maybe that's something else Andy can look at.

 

[cineteq]

GC riders and the GT they should focus on in 2012:

Contador - TDF
A Schleck & F. Schleck - Giro
Kloeden - TDF
Menchov - Vuelta
Evans - TDF
Basso - Giro
Nibali - TDF
Scarponi - Giro
Froome - TDF
Wiggins - Vuelta
Kreuzinger - TDF
Braijkovic - Vuelta
Rodriguez - Vuelta
Cobo - Vuelta
Anton - Vuelta
S Sanchez - TDF

Fixed it for you

 

[airstream]

I think Andy hasn't just got enough courage and determination to attack with a risk to drop himself. It seemed he could take time easily on Plateau de Beille but it didnot happen. Probably the TdF was lost there. I don't see any other tactical mistakes. It's wrong to call a mistake in case a cyclist isnt able to attack physically. I even think Evans is weaker in calculating. Throughout all his career Evans dropped from the main pack too late and then paid for it. The only chase on Galibier is not enough to call him master of calculating.

 

[Angliru]

GC riders and the GT they should focus on in 2012:

Contador - TDF
A Schleck - Giro
F Schleck - TDF; nice to give him his own shot as undisputed leader.
Menchov - TDF
Evans - TDF
Basso/Nibali - Giro; Ivan may have missed his TDF chance now, and Nibali may not be able to challenge Contador until at least 2013.
Scarponi - Vuelta
Froome/Wiggins - TDF
Kreuzinger/Braijkovic - TDF
Rodriguez - Vuelta
Cobo - Vuelta
S Sanchez - TDF

How much benefit does it give a rider to skip the Giro and just ride the Vuelta? Because Nibali and Scarponi didn't back up well this year, I'm thinking that more lesser GC riders should just focus on the Vuelta - the risk is that you throw away other races to possibly win it. The thing is, is that a rider may have full focus on the Giro for 7-8 months, or for the TDF for longer still, so the traditional few months (or even 6 weeks) full focus on the Vuelta is not really a lot.

Scarponi finished 2nd in the Giro versus a dominant Contador. Being Italian and getting up in years I can't see a better option for him than pursuing his dream of a Giro victory. It's well within his grasp.

No way Bruyneel will have his best chance of returning to Tour glory by using Frank Schleck as his trump card when Andy is available, not that they will win with either if Contador shows up in top form. Any way Andy would have a serious tantrum if told that he'd have to ride the Giro as his season focus and not the Tour.

 

[iesous77]

personally, Frank nor Andy will win a GT, Andy just doesn't have the composure to win, and if something doesn't go his way or he doesn't like something he will throw his dummy out the pram.

Next year i see Nibali or Basso winning Giro
Contador winning (even though i want Valverde to win) with evans, valverde and wiggins being the big threat, andy will blow his chances somewhere along the way

 

[richo36]

I think Andy hasn't just got enough courage and determination to attack with a risk to drop himself. It seemed he could take time easily on Plateau de Beille but it didnot happen. Probably the TdF was lost there. I don't see any other tactical mistakes. It's wrong to call a mistake in case a cyclist isnt able to attack physically. I even think Evans is weaker in calculating. Throughout all his career Evans dropped from the main pack too late and then paid for it. The only chase on Galibier is not enough to call him master of calculating.

Evans looks weaker cos he actually takes chances. he relises to win a bike race like the tour when you are a good all round rider but dont have the climbing ability of contador you have to take a chance. this is why we saw him attack on a few of the early stages just in an attempt to gain a couple seconds. He doesnt just ride in his comfort zone like schleck. The only time andy has really taken a gamble was on the galibier stage.

I think another tatical mistake was not attacking on the stage where he lost a minute on the downhill finish. By this i mean he should know that he is not comfortable going downhill, and should of attacked on the climb to try and gain a buffer over the chasers. also this would most likely split the chasers up meaning you arent as likely to lose as much time on everyone if they catch you. I feel not riding the TT course before the race was another tatical mistake (didnt he lose 2010 in the TT as well, as in he was in yellow in the TT)

 

[hrotha]

He is looking for an easy way to win and there isn't one.

This +∞. End thread.

 

[Angliru]

I still thinks it's too early to write Basso off. Keep in mind that he had a serious crash prior to the Tour and I believe some type of illness too. I'd be curious to see what he can do in the Tour with ideal preparation.

Nibali should try winning the Giro first (in a Contador-less Giro) before pursuing
Tour overall success. It would be a wasted year at this point in his career for him to focus on the Tour when a Giro victory can be had. He could have a very intense battle with Scarponi IMO.

 

[airstream]

I think another tatical mistake was not attacking on the stage where he lost a minute on the downhill finish. By this i mean he should know that he is not comfortable going downhill, and should of attacked on the climb to try and gain a buffer over the chasers. also this would most likely split the chasers up meaning you arent as likely to lose as much time on everyone if they catch you. I feel not riding the TT course before the race was another tatical mistake (didnt he lose 2010 in the TT as well, as in he was in yellow in the TT)

He never attacks on the stage like that. Such a climb doesnt suit him well. I'm just joking. Probably 90% of such hilly stages pass without attacks of main contenders and Contador's move was a big surprise. I dont get why everyone criticize Andy as a bad descender. Why does nobody remember descent from Col du Romme now? Schleck did a great downhill there, going on bluff sometimes. My thought is most of GC riders are not very good descenders because of some reasons: they don't have racing practice in this cos don't have to go in breaks, often rest on descents before the decisive climbs, etc. But everyone throws stones only in Schleck somehow.
Contador is a great descender, I hear sometimes. Where did he prove that? Show me, please.

 

[El Pistolero]

He never attacks on the stage like that. Such a climb doesnt suit him well. I'm just joking. Probably 90% of such hilly stages pass without attacks of main contenders and Contador's move was a big surprise. I dont get why everyone criticize Andy as a bad descender. Why does nobody remember descent from Col du Romme now? Schleck did a great downhill there, going on bluff sometimes. My thought is most of GC riders are not very good descenders because of some reasons: they don't have racing practice in this cos don't have to go in breaks, often rest on descents before the decisive climbs, etc. But everyone throws stones only in Schleck somehow.
Contador is a great descender, I hear sometimes. Where did he prove that? Show me, please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0uyVaughmk

 

[airstream]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0uyVaughmk

And that's all? ) Samu attacked, Conta kept up. And in the situation Pistolero turned out, maybe Schleck himself would try.

 

[The Hitch]

And that's all? ) Samu attacked, Conta kept up. And in the situation Pistolero turned out, maybe Schleck himself would try.

Im one of the biggest Samu fans but i have to admit, on that descent it was mostly Contador. When the camera first showed them, Samu was on the front, but after that it was all Pistolero and Samu was struggling to keep up.

 

[airstream]

Im one of the biggest Samu fans but i have to admit, on that descent it was mostly Contador. When the camera first showed them, Samu was on the front, but after that it was all Pistolero and Samu was struggling to keep up.

Well, probably you're right. And how many seconds did they have before a flat section? That descend was exceptionally specific. Unsurprisingly that Contador does 150 m straight bits with the sharp turns better than tall, not so flexible Schleck. By the way, Evans dropped there also, no?

 

[Escarabajo]

In other words, like Evans won this year. LOL!

PS: Actually Sastre won with the huge help of the Schlecks who sacrificed themselves for the guy, especially Frank, and very bad luck by Evans.

I disagree on both counts. Andy had a bad day. That's part of racing. Frank wasn't strong enough, period. Evans was closer to him in form but had a tactical misshap. And that's speculation. Sastre won fair and square without Contador in the race. Just like Evans won it this year, fair and square.

People always love to give excuses of why this and why that. In most of sports there is always a why to everything. If this had happened that would not have hapenned. We it didn't. That's it.

 

[Thomsena]

Should go for this now.