Menchov & Sastre: What are they thinking?

[Nicoper]

Menchov can win Giro. He is the second best active GT rider now, and not like Andy, he will not put everything on one race.

Add to that that 2011 is odd year and he wins only on odd years and that Giro will have 6 or 7 (I forgot) mountain top finishes so he have less chance to fall on decent. He is riding his final years as a pro so he wont be under pressure to perform well so he could sign next contract, and he had fairly easy season this year.

Same goes for Sastre. He is probably the best of 10 to 3rd place GT riders in past decade and maybe even more. One lucky move like when he won TdF and he will have a good result at any given race.
When you add up his position on all tree GT in one year and compare it too similar achievements from the past, I thin it is the lowest sum. Can someone confirm this?

Its nice to see two of the greatest rivals (not the best riders) ride together. Just imagine their training runs.

So Geox has every right to hope for a good season. Nice team, good luck to them.

 

[hfer07]

Menchov is dreaming: Yes- he's done two GT's the same year before, but his record shows he always falters in one of them. next year's Giro is going to be a massacre for any GT rider seeking great results in July. As for Sastre-I like the guy a lot, but seems to me he's just riding for the pleasure of it and without any ambition of winning anything at all. I think he should concentrate in only one GT from now on and try some one-week races ala Paris-Nice, Dauphine or Settimana ciclista Lombarda to give his palmares some bulk and later on not regret having won those races...

 

[The Hitch]

He can beat Contador when he`s not doping.

But he cant beat Contador when both Contador AND Menchov arent doping

 

[theyoungest]

Menchov is dreaming: Yes- he's done two GT's the same year before, but his record shows he always falters in one of them. next year's Giro is going to be a massacre for any GT rider seeking great results in July. As for Sastre-I like the guy a lot, but seems to me he's just riding for the pleasure of it and without any ambition of winning anything at all. I think he should concentrate in only one GT from now on and try some one-week races ala Paris-Nice, Dauphine or Settimana ciclista Lombarda to give his palmares some bulk and later on not regret having won those races...

He's done what you suggest he should. This year.

 

[The Hitch]

If take into account mountain stages when Menchov lost time to Alberto and Andy, then it was twice:
1) On the Madeleine stage(after first rest day)
2) On the Tourmalet stage(after second rest day)
Often in Grand Tours, rest days = blood transfusions days, but ok, it’s clinic talk.
So, maybe the main factor wasn’t high mountains, but rest days ?
For example, in next year Tour after first rest day will be flat stage and after second rest day medium mountain stage.

And the most hilarious thing is that „classic Tour” has 2 ITT’s > 50 km. So, by your logic, AC and AS doesn't have a point in participation(make a calculation and you will see) if Tour would have been "classic", yeah ?

They also took time from Menchov individualy. Andy 10 seconds in Morzine, and Contador 10 seconds in Mende (not a mountain i know, but still a climb)

without Contador in the race forcing a selection in the mountains, Menchov would be crazy to not focus exclusively on the tour. If he can keep from losing minutes to Shrek along the passes, he could very well win it with the ITT.

Problem is, not only does he have A schleck but Samu Sanchez was clearly stronger in the mountains and was a bit unlucky on a few occasions.

Maybe next year, Samu doesnt miss Andy and Al by 6 seconds on the Madeline descent, causing him to lose another minute on the flat. Maybe next year Samu doesnt break his wrist on the Tourmalet, hence surrendering any chances of a podium. And theres no maybe about the fact that Samu will have more mountains to gain time on Menchov.

THen theres Basso and Evans who focused on the Giro last year who could potentialy challenge menchov if they focus on the tour. And apparently Gesink was nowhere near top form and will easily crush Menchov if he peaks right next year (not my opinion, but that of others on this forum )

And what about Frank. Frank looked in good form as well. ANd GArmins latest tdf surprise, my vote is its Danny Martin, but given their form in such things, i wont be surprised if its Jullian Dean.

Obviously a few of these guys - Frank, Evans, Gesink and Garmin, you would expect Menchov to beat, im only saying they might bring super performances. But with people like Basso, Samu and Anton if he rides it, my vote is with them over Menchov.

 

[quarterpounder]

And what about Frank. Frank looked in good form as well. ANd GArmins latest tdf surprise, my vote is its Danny Martin, but given their form in such things, i wont be surprised if its Jullian Dean.

You shouldn't be either because it would be no surprise. Julian Dean has always has always been very competent, he just hasn't been given the opportunity to ride for himself yet. He has always had to work for Thor or others. He once won the KOM jersey in the Tour of New Zealand and has always done really well when Garmin have done their tests. If he loses a few kg's and stays injury free, then the podium of the TDF should be well within his reach. It would be well deserved too.

 

[El Pistolero]

If take into account mountain stages when Menchov lost time to Alberto and Andy, then it was twice:
1) On the Madeleine stage(after first rest day)
2) On the Tourmalet stage(after second rest day)
Often in Grand Tours, rest days = blood transfusions days, but ok, it’s clinic talk.
So, maybe the main factor wasn’t high mountains, but rest days ?
For example, in next year Tour after first rest day will be flat stage and after second rest day medium mountain stage.

And the most hilarious thing is that „classic Tour” has 2 ITT’s > 50 km. So, by your logic, AC and AS doesn't have a point in participation(make a calculation and you will see) if Tour would have been "classic", yeah ?

Let's face it, it's the only 2 stages the big boys stopped soft peddling up the mountains. Menchov was never close to winning the Tour.

So what if it had 2 ITT? If you compare the time trials where Menchov and Contador faced off, you'll see Contador won most of them. God knows where this Menchov is a far better time trial specialist comes from.

 

[NickRooz]

But you don't consider Menchov to be a good rider, or what?

 

[Parrulo]

He can beat Contador when he`s not doping. I`m ashamed to even talk about that little cheater.

this made my day

But you don't consider Menchov to be a good rider, or what?

he is a good rider.

but he nor can he beat contador and shleck(only person that could do it would be basso on the giro montains and even him is just a guess, robobasso would rape them tho ) nor can he pull 2 GT's in 1 season as it has been proved(by him on the road) before.

 

[theyoungest]

but he nor can he beat contador and shleck(only person that could do it would be basso on the giro montains and even him is just a guess, robobasso would rape them tho ) nor can he pull 2 GT's in 1 season as it has been proved(by him on the road) before.

I can't remember how short some people's memory is (or how little they know about cycling)... Menchov in the Giro 2008: 5th. Menchov in the Tour 2008: 3d.

 

[Angliru]

^^I was waiting for someone to mention this. A 4th (later moved up to 3rd when Kohl was busted) at the Tour and 5th at the Giro isn't faltering in my book.

 

[Parrulo]

I can't remember how short some people's memory is (or how little they know about cycling)... Menchov in the Giro 2008: 5th. Menchov in the Tour 2008: 3d.

he finished the giro 3:17 behind contador and never looked like he was going to win. and didn't he entered the alp d'huez in yellow but broke and lost it+the tour?

isn't that prove enough he can't really contend to win in 2 GT's in one season. or at least the giro- tour doable(even tho he was nowhere to be seen in this year vuelta, besides ITT)

he can get a good result in both but not contend to win.

 

[theyoungest]

I can't remember how short some people's memory is (or how little they know about cycling)... Menchov in the Giro 2008: 5th. Menchov in the Tour 2008: 3d.

I quite like my own (unintended) joke. What I meant to say, of course, was "I can't believe..."

 

[python]

No, I didn't. You know what you meant with your post. You're probably the only guy arguing against your own post

Menchov can win the Giro and get some free publicity for the team at the Tour. Simple as that.

Menchov can't win the Tour. And well, he's the team leader you know

again genius, where did you see me talking about who can win what and what not. several people already explained to you what my post was about and you're still stuck talking to your own voices.

repeat: geox is promoting themselves by taking up both of their gc riders. no one this early, except those talking to themselves, knows or cares how they will use their riders and who will be the leader at what gt.

 

[roundabout]

I can't remember how short some people's memory is (or how little they know about cycling)... Menchov in the Giro 2008: 5th. Menchov in the Tour 2008: 3d.

That happened once. Not a lot of reason to be confident that it can happen again.

 

[theyoungest]

That happened once. Not a lot of reason to be confident that it can happen again.

No. But to say that Menchov has proven that riding both the Tour and the Giro at a high level is impossible, when he has in fact proven the opposite, seems stupid.

 

[ergmonkey]

No. But to say that Menchov has proven that riding both the Tour and the Giro at a high level is impossible, when he has in fact proven the opposite, seems stupid.

We should probably define "high level" before we conclude that anyone is stupid.

Are we assuming that only the winner was at a high level? Only the podium finishers? The top 5? The top 10? Top 20?

For a rider with Menchov's considerable but not dominant level of talent, I think a top 5 in a Grand Tour constitutes a "high level;" a podium finish constitutes an extremely high level; and a Tour podium or other GT victory constitutes a personal best effort.

 

[theyoungest]

We should probably define "high level" before we conclude that anyone is stupid.

Are we assuming that only the winner was at a high level? Only the podium finishers? The top 5? The top 10? Top 20?

For a rider with Menchov's considerable but not dominant level of talent, I think a top 5 in a Grand Tour constitutes a "high level;" a podium finish constitutes an extremely high level; and a Tour podium or other GT victory constitutes a personal best effort.

I'm not calling anyone stupid. I'm calling this line of reasoning stupid.

 

[profff]

geox has another great rider for GTs: fabio duarte the colombian climber.
he needs to be supported in the psychological aspect and to feel confiance from the team ( he has already failed in europe with androni in 2008) but he has great quality in the mountains.
the very hard giro route does not fit very well menchow qualities: too much hard climbs, he performs better when the ascent is easier to pedal.
i think they will bring sastre to giro and reserve menchow for tour.
the giro is too hard this year to allow anybody to go for the double : after a final week so repleted of difficult stages everybody will be finished and notable to recover for the tour

 

[Dewulf]

again you invented every word you ascribed to me and continue arguing with your self. i never said anyone is foolish, i never singled out any rider, i even put a title on my post to help those like you who can only read what's in their heads:

it's a team promo talk

i don't care who can beat who or who is foolish. your question has as much to do with my original post as moon landings with cow reproduction.

+1, lol, pistolero is trolling (or just plain can't read), but watching him get pwnd by python (who ain't even trying) is pretty hilarious.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

i was joking but it seems that matxin fernandez isn't:

Sastre would most likely be the captain at the Vuelta, but Matxin admits that there is another possibility, newcomer David Blanco, who he describes as “a veteran who has not been valued enough after getting four titles in the Tour of Portugal.”

watch out for the new mosquera.

Nonsense. We didn't already know Mosquera was a doper before he broke through in 2005. And he continued to ride well from 30 to 34.

Blanco was exiled to Portugal by Operación Puerto, and has only just come back. Hopefully that means Marco Chagas' Volta record will stay, I couldn't stand another year of the co-commentator asking him every five minutes, "so, Marco Chagas, it seems David Blanco will match your record, how does that make you feel?"...

 

[The Hitch]

geox has another great rider for GTs: fabio duarte the colombian climber.
he needs to be supported in the psychological aspect and to feel confiance from the team ( he has already failed in europe with androni in 2008) but he has great quality in the mountains.
the very hard giro route does not fit very well menchow qualities: too much hard climbs, he performs better when the ascent is easier to pedal.
i think they will bring sastre to giro and reserve menchow for tour.
the giro is too hard this year to allow anybody to go for the double : after a final week so repleted of difficult stages everybody will be finished and notable to recover for the tour

I am a big fan of the Colombian riders but the u23 WC gold and Vuelta Colombia performances dont neccesarily translate to europe gc results. If VC did, every team would be falling over themselves for Henao, who i still hope will win a GT when he enters the european scene.

 

[ergmonkey]

I'm not calling anyone stupid. I'm calling this line of reasoning stupid.

Sorry, you lost me. Whose line of reasoning on what issue is stupid?

 

[Escarabajo]

Wasn't 2008, according to the Chinese calendar, the "Year of the CERA"?

Maybe we will never see those performances in 2 GT's again from anyone else .

 

[Denkoff]

Carlos Sastro Fidel Castro