Menchov & Sastre: What are they thinking?

[theyoungest]

Sorry, you lost me. Whose line of reasoning on what issue is stupid?

The guy I originally responded to, of course.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Wasn't 2008, according to the Chinese calendar, the "Year of the CERA"?

So 2010 was the year of the motor doper and 2011 will be the year of the genetic doper?

 

[BroDeal]

So 2010 was the year of the motor doper and 2011 will be the year of the genetic doper?

Nope.

With FLandis, 2010 was the year of the rat. If Ricco can get into the Giro then 2011 will be the year of the snake. And if Piti comes back in 2012, that will be the year of the dog.

 

[El Pistolero]

again genius, where did you see me talking about who can win what and what not. several people already explained to you what my post was about and you're still stuck talking to your own voices.

repeat: geox is promoting themselves by taking up both of their gc riders. no one this early, except those talking to themselves, knows or cares how they will use their riders and who will be the leader at what gt.

You do know Menchov actually did the Giro/Tour in 2009 right, genius?
Promo talk, blabla. There's a good shot they'll do it.


What? You never heard about implicitly?

 

[profff]

I am a big fan of the Colombian riders but the u23 WC gold and Vuelta Colombia performances dont neccesarily translate to europe gc results. If VC did, every team would be falling over themselves for Henao, who i still hope will win a GT when he enters the european scene.

henao, unfortunately, will loose another year in colombia with orgullo.
he has the power to blow up the european peloton in mountain stages.
just remember what happened this year in tour de l' avenir and in giro bio.
the new colombians can repeat lucho herrera .

I agree with you, colombian results don't exactly translate to european result. to perform well in europe you need to learn some tactics . but duarte has skills, as betancur and henao and rigo uran, and they need to be given the time to learn how to live and how to cope with pro cycling in europe.
duarte now is older, he had already failed in europe and i think now he has the weapons to do well.
i hope gianetti will give him some chance in the giro: he can be a factor in mountain stages. the guys going for gc will not be able to go for stage wins every day with three uphill finish in a row: there is room for climbers with courage and pride and , at the end, ha can do well also in gc ( there will be day, like l' aquila past year, with no team with the strength to keep the race shut..).

menchow has already won giro and vueltas: his main goal is the tour and he will not risk to ruin everything running such an hard giro.
normally menchow in the past has done better in the second gt ridden in the season: this trend changed after winning the giro in 2009 . this year he was very deceiving in the vuelta.
before , he always did well in the second gt run in the season. his best vueltas came always after running the tour.
considering the fact that geox has commercial interest also in spain and france, i believe they will save menchow for tour and vueltas.

ciao

 

[webvan]

Not sure what Menchov was thinking but apparently he wasn't impressed with the way he was treated by Katusha -> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/menchov-pleased-he-chose-geox-tmc-over-katusha

I wonder, was it just about the money ?

 

[lucybears]

DEIA asked them

Carlos Sastre and Denis Menchov chat about cycling, life, passion, strength and commitment

http://translate.google.com/transla...osotros-no-nos-damos-palmaditas-en-la-espalda

 

[Franklin]

Let's shortchange the guy who won three (!) Gt's.

Sorry, but according to some here Mencov should just roll over and play dead, while he's an absolute winner by any standard.

Maybe next year Andy can just ride the tour against Basso and all others stay home?

 

[webvan]

So strange that Katusha treated him badly, having Menchov leading a Russian team would certainly have been something, Schleck(s)/Team Lux, Menchov/Russia, Vino/Kazahstan...back to the days of national teams that some have heralded as a way to get soul back into cycling...not sure about that, but still, WTF happened! I'm afraid they just weren't offering him enough cash...and Gianetti was, thanks to Geox.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I am sure cash played its role, but didn't Menchov say that Katusha simply weren't exactly showing up on his doorstep, keen to see if they could sign him, once he flagged he might be looking for "a" new team?

I don't think that statement was all about money.

 

[The Hitch]

So strange that Katusha treated him badly, having Menchov leading a Russian team would certainly have been something, Schleck(s)/Team Lux, Menchov/Russia, Vino/Kazahstan...back to the days of national teams that some have heralded as a way to get soul back into cycling...not sure about that, but still, WTF happened! I'm afraid they just weren't offering him enough cash...and Gianetti was, thanks to Geox.

Look at the bright side. Our breakthrough of the year 2010 will continue to be a great team leader, rather than revert to the Valverde helper roll (only with Menchov this time)

 

[theyoungest]

Look at the bright side. Our breakthrough of the year 2010 will continue to be a great team leader, rather than revert to the Valverde helper roll (only with Menchov this time)

Wouldn't it be fun to see Rodriguez in the Giro & Vuelta, and have Menchov focus on the Tour? I don't see the problem.

 

[webvan]

Look at the bright side. Our breakthrough of the year 2010 will continue to be a great team leader, rather than revert to the Valverde helper roll (only with Menchov this time)

You had me lost for a minute, I had no idea who the "breakthrough of the year 2010" was...thanks for the post above.

Shame on me...or not...for forgetting about Rodriguez, a pure little climber that I must confess I never paid a lot of attention to, nice to see him trash the competition on Tirreno on that moutain goat climb, but for GTs ? Under normal circumstances, I can't see him winning a GT, we don't want a repeat of the Pantani "story" do we?

I am sure cash played its role, but didn't Menchov say that Katusha simply weren't exactly showing up on his doorstep, keen to see if they could sign him, once he flagged he might be looking for "a" new team? I don't think that statement was all about money.

No, but not sure what to make of it, Menchov is a pro, not a diva, looks like he was expecting them to pull the red carpet for him?

Maybe they overplayed their hand because of the Joaquim "mountain goat become GT contender" Rodriguez ?

 

[El Pistolero]

Rodriguez is not even half the climber Pantani was. Doped or not.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

last week we heard about how carlos sastre was so tired after doing 3 Gt's this year

Now we hear that he is possibly going to do all 3 GT's again next year!

Also Menchov is considering going for overall for the giro and tour in one of the most hardest routes a grand tour has seen.

What is going on?????

I'm with Python here. Geox is a new set-up and they want to make a splash. They're not bound to anything they say right now, and if talking big helps them to get more attention this winter, then that's a good thing for the squad. They want people to pay attention to them, and they need to be welcomed at the biggest races. Nothing too surprising about any of this.

I agree with ergmonkey. Also, Geox might be worried about not getting invites (since they are not a pro tour team) to the 3 GT's, as was the case with the Shack (even though Shack was a PT team) at last year's Giro. The reason the Giro organizers excluded Shack last year was partly based on the weak lineup that Giro orgs felt Shack would send. I'm sure Geox does not want to copy that mistake by the Shack. (We could debate the "weak" tag given to last year's proposed Shack lineup for the Giro, but that's another topic)

 

[La Pandera]

I recall a recent article quoting Evans as saying that entering each and every Tour that he's started that he's been "tired" from the beginning. What's up with that??

 

[La Pandera]

As Francois stated, it's quite early to be taking seriously any statements that are made by rider's/teams about their planned schedules. By stating their interest in competing in said races it simply increases the chance of an invite.
Menchov and Sastre are Geox's only marketable, elite level proven commodities.

As far as Sastre is concerned competing in all 3 grand tours has become a fairly reasonable expectation for him. Not that he'll be a factor in all 3 but he will at some point make his presence known in all 3 in some way.

We can look at Wiggins who is still grasping at straws in reasoning his abysmal Tour performance. He's now focused on his lack of altitude training compared to his rivals as the reason for his disappointing Tour. So now it's no longer the effort expended at the Giro that wrecked his Tour chances. Maybe best to completely avoid that topic altogether since his story changes at every turn.

I am personally of the belief that using the Giro as prep for the Tour is not the ideal plan of action, especially if a rider can't control their competitive instincts (Evans) and hasn't scaled back their race schedule to compensate for the 3 weeks of the Giro (Evans). I'm sure Menchov, Evans and Sastre are well aware of the adverse effects of trying to do both with the expectation of being at the best for the Tour. With the exception of Menchov's 2 top tens in both in 2008, no one else has shown the ability to be competitive in both in the same year in this generation of grand tour performers. Basso also being an exception in the year he had a stomach virus while contending at the Giro, lost major time falling out of contention, recovered and won 2 stages-following that up by finishing 2nd at the Tour. The competive level at the Giro has increased in recent years making it necessary for a rider to choose which event will be their focus in terms of trying to compete with their rivals for the overall classification. Chasing stage wins or even the KOM is another story.

 

[La Pandera]

You had me lost for a minute, I had no idea who the "breakthrough of the year 2010" was...thanks for the post above.

Shame on me...or not...for forgetting about Rodriguez, a pure little climber that I must confess I never paid a lot of attention to, nice to see him trash the competition on Tirreno on that moutain goat climb, but for GTs ? Under normal circumstances, I can't see him winning a GT, we don't want a repeat of the Pantani "story" do we?



No, but not sure what to make of it, Menchov is a pro, not a diva, looks like he was expecting them to pull the red carpet for him?

Maybe they overplayed their hand because of the Joaquim "mountain goat become GT contender" Rodriguez ?

I thought it was pretty clear. He used Sky/Wiggins, Luxembourg/Schlecks, and Astana/Vino as perfect examples. He was expecting the team of his homeland to show more interest than the rest of the teams that were courting him and maybe yes roll out the red carpet. He is Russia's top cyclist.
Just because Menchov is quiet doesn't mean he doesn't have an ego and standards that he believes should be followed when negotiating with someone of his stature and possessing his palmares.

 

[BroDeal]

I recall a recent article quoting Evans as saying that entering each and every Tour that he's started that he's been "tired" from the beginning. What's up with that??

That is the idiocy of joining a team where he is required to perform in the spring months instead of being allowed a slow build up to a goal. His habit to spreading himself too thin over a season does not help either.

 

[La Pandera]

That is the idiocy of joining a team where he is required to perform in the spring months instead of being allowed a slow build up to a goal. His habit to spreading himself too thin over a season does not help either.

One would think after realizing year after year that one is fatigued going into their target event that an alteration in preparation is needed. At BMC being the team's biggest name, he should have been in the position to have more say in his race schedule. Or is it that he finally faced reality in 2010 and recognized that winning the Tour is not in the cards with Contador/Schleck and the minimal support he/BMC had for him on their roster?

Sorry for the side topic but since ACF initiated this thread I figured he'd appreciate my inserting a little Evans detour.

 

[webvan]

I thought it was pretty clear. He used Sky/Wiggins, Luxembourg/Schlecks, and Astana/Vino as perfect examples. He was expecting the team of his homeland to show more interest than the rest of the teams that were courting him and maybe yes roll out the red carpet. He is Russia's top cyclist.
Just because Menchov is quiet doesn't mean he doesn't have an ego and standards that he believes should be followed when negotiating with someone of his stature and possessing his palmares.

Sure and I for one like Menchov so I'm more than happy to listen to his story, I'm just not sure what he means, did Katusha treat him like trash? I'm pretty sure I read about Tchmill saying he really wanted Menchov on his team because he was a Russian a couple of times and certainly before August. Why would he not talk proper to Menchov when he went to the pains of going public about this?

I'm afraid it boils down to the money he was getting offered...Fair enough, he should just say so instead of implying they didn't treat him respectfully.

 

[Martin318is]

Lets leave Evans out of this discussion, shall we.

 

[webvan]

I'm afraid it boils down to the money he was getting offered...Fair enough, he should just say so instead of implying they didn't treat him respectfully.

Oops, looks like it wasn't about the money...pretty serious implications in Tchmill's statement here : http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tchmil-responds-to-menchovs-criticism - Menchov's agent worried about "discipline", hum...

 

[Angliru]

Lets leave Evans out of this discussion, shall we.

Why is Evans off limits? I felt that the Evans revelation about entering every Tour fatigued is just as worthy of discussion and similar in subject matter to the OP's topic.

 

[webvan]

Now that the fat lady has sung, Sastre said what he was thinking http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sastre-disappointed-but-dignifed-after-tour-de-france-snub - not Menchov though.

On the plus side that gives Menchov a chance of winning another GT this year I suppose...The Giro organizers must be rubbing their hands!