Michael Barry

[RobbieCanuck]

like Barry ripping the peloton a new one in 2003 Hamilton Worlds that the Saeco rider astarloa won


MVP
but

= NOT NORMAL

inside the postal buse b4 hamilton. before tyler, in canuckland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHm7tKuS90c

What in the world does this have to do with Clara which was the context of my response to Mark W. Get the issues straight. What you have posted is old news. We all know Barry doped while at USPS.

 

[Master50]

@D-Queued

put this fiction to rest. the guy was high as a kite on epo, come on dude.

From the front row ( I was on one of the motorbikes in that Worlds) and while Michael may have been "boosted" his actions were that he saved his energy, kept his nose out of the wind and quietly peddled in relative anonymity which is nothing like the jobs he would have on his team where he spent most of his energy protecting others on his teams. He was not ripping it up but riding quietly in the peloton. Whether at T mobile or USPS he was paid to ride at the front in service of others. His results at Worlds were certainly better than he usually gets but usually he is not there to get results, only to ensure someone else does.

A few years later at the last or second last women's world cup in Montreal when MB was at T Mobile I had an interesting conversation with Petra Rossner then the women's team manager about Mike and why he was not on the tour team? her answer indicated he was very respected as a worker bee but in retrospect I think he was "outside" the trusted core of Tour riders. This seems a subscript to the doping narrative. Regardless of what riders were doing on their own, only a very select few were on a team run program.
not to say he was clean but certainly there are much more complex relations in this arena.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

From the front row ( I was on one of the motorbikes in that Worlds) and while Michael may have been "boosted" his actions were that he saved his energy, kept his nose out of the wind and quietly peddled in relative anonymity which is nothing like the jobs he would have on his team where he spent most of his energy protecting others on his teams. He was not ripping it up but riding quietly in the peloton.

Is this your appraisal of his ride from the motorbike? Because it sounds like the way anyone worth their salt from Cat 3 upwards would race if they wanted to win.

 

[D-Queued]

How does this involve Clara which was the implication in Mark W's comment? Get real!

This is not the Clara thread.

That said, while your defense of Clara is commendable, get real yourself.

- Doping in cycling is not news.

- In fact, doping in speed skating is not news.

- Anyone, and EVERYONE, racing their bikes at an elite level is well aware of this. In fact, according to the participants (many citations possible) the participation rate is at least 80%

- Clara had to be well aware of the high likelihood of doping within cycling, and by any of her cycling friends

- The scandals at USPS have been in the news forever

- While we don't know for sure, it is unlikely that Clara cannot do the Jans Ullrich math and put one and one together

- Given the extreme statement of support from Clara on Michael, it is peculiar that there has been no specific statement to correct this misstatement either from Clara about Michael, or from Michael about Clara. No, "I am saddened by Michael's admission... but he is still a friend and wants to do the right thing..."

Ergo, it is unreasonable to believe that:

1. Clara is not aware of the widespread nature of doping in cycling.
2. That Clara would not have had reason to be suspicious of Michael.
3. That the people involved, including Clara, don't know much more than they are saying.

Not sure how much more, or exactly what, but there is an iceberg situation here and 99% is not being revealed.

And, this observation is not restricted to Clara.

Michael's dad is very well known in Canadian cycling circles. While I did not personally seek him out, I know many that did ask him to get Michael, the self-appointed scribe of USPS, to provide the real story.

The ongoing silence is deafening. The lack of honesty prevails in the new book.

Ergo, as long as Clara remains associated with 'her friend' Michael, she will continue to be associated with supporting a liar that continues to lie.

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

Is this your appraisal of his ride from the motorbike? Because it sounds like the way anyone worth their salt from Cat 3 upwards would race if they wanted to win.

my memory of the race from a commentary ticker on cyclingnews and dailypeloton, he was not racing like simon gerrans and waiting for the last lap. he was racing like cancellara in mondrisio where spartacus ripped the peloton a new one.

 

[D-Queued]

From the front row ( I was on one of the motorbikes in that Worlds) and while Michael may have been "boosted" his actions were that he saved his energy, kept his nose out of the wind and quietly peddled in relative anonymity which is nothing like the jobs he would have on his team where he spent most of his energy protecting others on his teams. He was not ripping it up but riding quietly in the peloton. ...

Isn't it more common (especially among the non-Euros) to ride for your country and not your team at the World's, like you are supposed to?

Aren't World Championships also typically wars of attrition due to their length?

Wasn't this race controlled by the Italians? So, wouldn't the only rational strategy be to wait for/follow their move(s)?

"... an Italian team determined to keep the race in control for pre-race favourite Paolo Bettini, allied with a strong headwind on the final climb, conspired to produce an event with more than 60 riders in the hunt with a lap to go. ..."

Didn't Barry, in fact, make a jump to the winning break pulling and not following, one Alejandro Valverde?

"...As Astarloa sped away, rounding the bend at the top of the climb with 10 seconds in hand, Canadian Michael Barry jumped across from the closing pack with Alejandro Valverde Belmonte of Spain on his wheel. ..."

Jumped across from the closing pack???

Whoa, dude musta been on steroids.

Didn't Barry himself note how unusual it was for he, himself, to attack

"I've done a lot of races where I cana't sleep the night after because I regret not attacking, so I thought I would just give it a go and see what happens" said Barry

Not normal.

Oh, and wasn't the Canadian team at Hamilton also noteworthy for another teammate's failed HCT test?

That would have been in the women's event. You know, the 'non-doping' cyclists

Canada disgraced itself on home turf.

Dave.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Hi Berzin,

I hope that this post is, in fact, on topic as it does pertain to Barry, his USPS/Disco experience, that team's doping notariety, and Barry's purported 'deception'.

If you find this out of bounds in any way, please feel free to delete.

Hi Robbie,

Arrogance? Hubris? Egomania?

Nice rant.

Nobody really knew about doping on USPS until Hamilton? Nobody???

Nice revisionism.

No Actovegin? No SCA Arbitration? No Frankie admission? No Gendarmes investigation? No Steve Swart? No Emma? No Walsh book(s)? No Triple Crown payola? No Betsy? No Damien Ressiot? No Greg LeMond? No Stephanie McIlvain? No Vrijman report? No Floyd? No USOC implications? No bus pulling over to the side of the road? No Ferrari and no orange juice? No Androgen in the medicine cabinet? No cortizone post-dated TUE? No black list?

That is more than a decades worth of ongoing doping scandal surround Lance and Motorola/USPS/Disco/Astana/Radio Shack.

How could you suggest that nobody really knew? Are you joking? Did you read Betsy's post earlier in this thread?

Yes, I believe that Clara was lying. Emphasis on 'I' and 'believe'.

Minimally, as a long-time, top performer in a sport she castigated as "dirty" she had strong reason to be suspicious and more than overstated herself whether Barry deceived her or not.

I find it impossible to believe that anyone with the kind of experience that Clara has had could be so blind to the possibility of doping within one of the worst offending teams ever.

But, those are my beliefs. Yours clearly differ.

I am ok with that. Why aren't you? Why the overbearing personal attack?

Why are you so threatened?

Do you think my comments could somehow hurt Clara? Isn't she unique in her multi-sport accomplishments? Wasn't she an incredibly tough competitor? I cannot imagine that she would even bat an eyelash over my opinion. But, I could be wrong.

You accused me of Omerta earlier (and I'm ok with that... subject of a future post). Wouldn't the kind of thing that Clara did also be consistent with omerta?

Why did she publicly defend Michael?

Dave.

The point is she didn't defend Barry when he admitted his doping in October 2012. The date of his affidavit in the USPS matter was October 8, 2012. The Reasoned Decision was released Oct. 10, 2012. Therefore the first public disclosure of Barry's doping on USPS was Oct. 10, 2012. Barry then was pressed by the CBC and gave interviews about his doping after that.

When Clara Hughes was asked about the doping in men's cycling after the release of the Reasoned Decision i.e. after Oct. 10, 2012 and after Barry gave his interviews to CBC she stated that men's cycling was a mess. She was never asked nor has she publicly stated her views on Barry. I gave you the urls for the CBC interviews.

You accused Clara of lying because she wrote a supporting forward to a training book Barry and Dede wrote in 2006 . You assumed incorrectly because she was close to Barry that she "must have known" about his doping on USPS from May 2003 to July 2006, in spite of the fact Barry publicly stated tn 2012 that he deceived all of his friends about his doping.

So the logic of your personal belief Clara should have spoken out about it or that she should have somehow known about defies all logic.

Then Mark W posted a suggestion (#261) that there were "other reasonable possibilities" in response to my comment to him that Clara's endorsement of Barry's book was 6 years before Barry fessed up and I asked rhetorically what those "other reasonable possibilities could be" (#262) and you chose to horn in on that conversation and take matters totally out of context to again raise your illogical and ludicrous argument Clara knew in 2006 about Barry's doping.

You have a very perverted sense of logic to get back to your original assertions for which I previously took you to task. So either shut the f()#k up about Clara or come out from behind your anonymity and make your allegations public, and prove them, so Clara can decide how to handle your defamation about her, legally or otherwise.

You are just like every long time paranoid Clinic poster on here. Because Clara was Barry's friend, she is a cyclist and a speed skater and doping is rife in both sports, she must have known about Barry's doping in spite of all the efforts Barry made to keep his doping away from his friends. Your logic is just sheer nonsense.

Remember in 2006, NO ONE knew specifically the details about USPS, and Barry in particular, other than vague speculation (a Clinic speciality) until Landis spilled the beans in 2010 and USADA collected its evidence in 2012.

 

[Master50]

Is this your appraisal of his ride from the motorbike? Because it sounds like the way anyone worth their salt from Cat 3 upwards would race if they wanted to win.

exactly the point, but unlike a cat 3 most pros only get occasional chances to ride to win. At Worlds he was racing as a potential protected rider on a rather small Canadian team. When he rode in service of USPS or T mobile he was the guy at the nose of the peloton at the times he was called to do the work. When riding as a worker he does not ride for personal placing, he rides to the teams purpose. My point is a very strong rider when allowed to race for his own interest might get better results than most of MB's list of accomplishments. In that context a good placing at Worlds in your home country is not so out of place. That said 7th is a result that was delightfully surprising at the time but not outside the realm of possibilities. After all he is often working harder than many protected riders up to a point so he does need a good engine.
Now despite the fact that I was an official at the event and we are to remain neutral it is not easy to ignore my Nations teams members so the jersey is noted wherever we see it. The President was from Great Britain and one member from Belgium another from Italy and another from France. Of course several Canadians were on the jury as well as a couple of US commissaire in logistical or support roles.
All the Canadians on the team were extra motivated to show a good result for the home teams and MB was the guy for Canada that day.
Did that give him extra motivation or did that motivation lead to adding outside help of a pharmaceutical nature? Hence the speculation as to how dirty he really was and in the clinic I appreciate the perspective that he must have been as dirty as lance but he was never an insider at USPS either, was he?
Did MB ever race the tour? I really don't know?

 

[Master50]

Isn't it more common (especially among the non-Euros) to ride for your country and not your team at the World's, like you are supposed to?

Aren't World Championships also typically wars of attrition due to their length?

Wasn't this race controlled by the Italians? So, wouldn't the only rational strategy be to wait for/follow their move(s)?

"... an Italian team determined to keep the race in control for pre-race favourite Paolo Bettini, allied with a strong headwind on the final climb, conspired to produce an event with more than 60 riders in the hunt with a lap to go. ..."

Didn't Barry, in fact, make a jump to the winning break pulling and not following, one Alejandro Valverde?

"...As Astarloa sped away, rounding the bend at the top of the climb with 10 seconds in hand, Canadian Michael Barry jumped across from the closing pack with Alejandro Valverde Belmonte of Spain on his wheel. ..."

Jumped across from the closing pack???

Whoa, dude musta been on steroids.

Didn't Barry himself note how unusual it was for he, himself, to attack

"I've done a lot of races where I cana't sleep the night after because I regret not attacking, so I thought I would just give it a go and see what happens" said Barry

Not normal.

Oh, and wasn't the Canadian team at Hamilton also noteworthy for another teammate's failed HCT test?

That would have been in the women's event. You know, the 'non-doping' cyclists

Canada disgraced itself on home turf.

Dave.

the only disgrace at the time was JJ and in my mind the entire selection process of the entire women's team. basically JJ and Lyne made the team selection and the coach rubber stamped it because they had no real clue the abilities or talents of the supporting riders.
MB made the selection. that came late. to date I have not heard if he said he took drugs or a blood transfusion so that is just the natural speculation of cyclical people. Certainly if you look at the work some domestiques do they have a lot of capacity.
Svein Tuft is one of the strongest riders in pro cycling but seldom gets to go for it. Why? Wrong country of birth? maybe? he gets Medals at Worlds but no one is saying do a Svein (a la Cancellara) and TT from 3 KM. yet that is a talent he should have. Why does he seldom get the ticket to race for a win? He was hired to work at the pointy end and he does it exceptionally well. Even domestically he often works for Christian Meyer rather than the other way about? Is it just modesty? I don't know but if he wanted to be a leader he has the ability on particular courses say like Paris Roubaix.

 

[blackcat]

Isn't it more common (especially among the non-Euros) to ride for your country and not your team at the World's, like you are supposed to?

Aren't World Championships also typically wars of attrition due to their length?

Wasn't this race controlled by the Italians? So, wouldn't the only rational strategy be to wait for/follow their move(s)?

"... an Italian team determined to keep the race in control for pre-race favourite Paolo Bettini, allied with a strong headwind on the final climb, conspired to produce an event with more than 60 riders in the hunt with a lap to go. ..."

Didn't Barry, in fact, make a jump to the winning break pulling and not following, one Alejandro Valverde?

"...As Astarloa sped away, rounding the bend at the top of the climb with 10 seconds in hand, Canadian Michael Barry jumped across from the closing pack with Alejandro Valverde Belmonte of Spain on his wheel. ..."

Jumped across from the closing pack???

Whoa, dude musta been on steroids.

Didn't Barry himself note how unusual it was for he, himself, to attack

"I've done a lot of races where I cana't sleep the night after because I regret not attacking, so I thought I would just give it a go and see what happens" said Barry

Not normal.

Oh, and wasn't the Canadian team at Hamilton also noteworthy for another teammate's failed HCT test?

That would have been in the women's event. You know, the 'non-doping' cyclists

Canada disgraced itself on home turf.

Dave.

Dave, some great posts, I counted atleast two new aphorisms to add to the "not a rounding error on a comprehensive doping program" one.

but I take issue with your "Not Normal".

technically, it is supposed to be, NOT NORMAL


cheers
blackcat

 

[D-Queued]

...

You accused Clara of lying because she wrote a supporting forward to a training book Barry and Dede wrote in 2006 . You assumed incorrectly because she was close to Barry that she "must have known" about his doping on USPS from May 2003 to July 2006, in spite of the fact Barry publicly stated tn 2012 that he deceived all of his friends about his doping.

So the logic of your personal belief Clara should have spoken out about it or that she should have somehow known about defies all logic.

Then Mark W posted a suggestion (#261) that there were "other reasonable possibilities" in response to my comment to him that Clara's endorsement of Barry's book was 6 years before Barry fessed up and I asked rhetorically what those "other reasonable possibilities could be" (#262) and you chose to horn in on that conversation and take matters totally out of context to again raise your illogical and ludicrous argument Clara knew in 2006 about Barry's doping.

You have a very perverted sense of logic to get back to your original assertions for which I previously took you to task. So either shut the f()#k up about Clara or come out from behind your anonymity and make your allegations public, and prove them, so Clara can decide how to handle your defamation about her, legally or otherwise.

You are just like every long time paranoid Clinic poster on here. Because Clara was Barry's friend, she is a cyclist and a speed skater and doping is rife in both sports, she must have known about Barry's doping in spite of all the efforts Barry made to keep his doping away from his friends. Your logic is just sheer nonsense.

Remember in 2006, NO ONE knew specifically the details about USPS, and Barry in particular, other than vague speculation (a Clinic speciality) until Landis spilled the beans in 2010 and USADA collected its evidence in 2012.

What is your problem?

I already admitted that I overstepped and could and should not call Clara a liar. I admit that again.

What she stated may not have been true, but she may not have known that. Or, at least not have been certain about the untruthfulness of the statement.

Do you know for absolute certainty, however, that she did not have any suspicions? Maybe Clara is truly unique, and maybe she was absolutely certain. She does seem like a nice person.

But, she would be in an extremely small minority of insiders that would be absolutely certain another pro cyclist was not doping. Can you think of a single other instance?

As for defamation, what?

Don't worry about my anonymity, nor about hiding behind this forum.

There is legal precedent for using statements in cycling forums in anti-doping cases. If someone wants to, they can go after these forums.

To suggest, however, that Barry successfully deceived all his friends (which is not what he said according to the urls you provided), has to be BS. This is simple logic.

Unless, of course, he only counts as friends those who believed he didn't dope. That is convenient, but illogical.

You appear to be grossly oversimplifying what we know was a doping epidemic, especially on USPS, and grossly underestimating how many were aware or suspicious of this.

There were plenty of folks, especially after the Hamilton Worlds, that openly questioned Barry. In fact, I provided you with a private inbox exchange from years ago where I was defending him against such accusations.

The Hamilton Worlds were in 2003, three years ahead of Clara's supportive statement. Moreover, Clara's statement also came after the L'Equipe story provided just another scandal for a scandal-tarnished team. In other words, after years of further guilt by association with further evidence of long-standing doping practices on that team.

To believe your interpretation of Barry's statements must mean that the Zabriskie's of the world were not his friends. Alternately, by your logic they believed he didn't dope, even when Michael and Dede were facilitating his doping.

Extending your logic, we must extend this belief to exclude all other pro cyclists who knew or suspected that most of their peers doped.

Did he have no friends in cycling? I am in disbelief.

Dave.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

What is your problem?

I already admitted that I overstepped and could and should not call Clara a liar. I admit that again.

What she stated may not have been true, but she may not have known that. Or, at least not have been certain about the untruthfulness of the statement.

Do you know for absolute certainty, however, that she did not have any suspicions? Maybe Clara is truly unique, and maybe she was absolutely certain. She does seem like a nice person.

But, she would be in an extremely small minority of insiders that would be absolutely certain another pro cyclist was not doping. Can you think of a single other instance?

As for defamation, what?

Don't worry about my anonymity, nor about hiding behind this forum.

There is legal precedent for using statements in cycling forums in anti-doping cases. If someone wants to, they can go after these forums.

To suggest, however, that Barry successfully deceived all his friends (which is not what he said according to the urls you provided), has to be BS. This is simple logic.

Unless, of course, he only counts as friends those who believed he didn't dope. That is convenient, but illogical.

You appear to be grossly oversimplifying what we know was a doping epidemic, especially on USPS, and grossly underestimating how many were aware or suspicious of this.

There were plenty of folks, especially after the Hamilton Worlds, that openly questioned Barry. In fact, I provided you with a private inbox exchange from years ago where I was defending him against such accusations.

The Hamilton Worlds were in 2003, three years ahead of Clara's supportive statement. Moreover, Clara's statement also came after the L'Equipe story provided just another scandal for a scandal-tarnished team. In other words, after years of further guilt by association with further evidence of long-standing doping practices on that team.

To believe your interpretation of Barry's statements must mean that the Zabriskie's of the world were not his friends. Alternately, by your logic they believed he didn't dope, even when Michael and Dede were facilitating his doping.

Extending your logic, we must extend this belief to exclude all other pro cyclists who knew or suspected that most of their peers doped.

Did he have no friends in cycling? I am in disbelief.

Dave.

My problem with you is your ongoing insinuation that everyone in the world should have known about LA's and USPS doping when you claim you and other "insiders" did. Sure there were lots of sceptics but to continue to argue that you somehow had special clairvoyant knowledge of proof of the doping is just self promoting puffery.

The reality is it was not until 2010 when Landis sent his e-mails that the cat was out of the bag and even then a huge majority of people didn't believe him. The UCI dissed him and McQuaid and Verbruggen sued him. LA attacked him. Huge swaths of the cycling community closer to the doping issue than you didn't accept LA had doped (and by extension that Barry had doped)

Yet you knew and because you knew people like Clara should have known as well. Well that defies logic and if you read Barry's public comments in November of 2012 he clearly stated he deceived his friends about his doping.

It was not until 2012 with the release of the USADA Reasoned Decision that the evidence proved the doping was overwhelming that the vast majority of the cycling public knew about the fact and extent of the doping so any suggestion Clara should have known in 2006 when she endorsed Barry's training book is just absurd.

Yet you keep beating this hollow drum. Give it a rest.

 

[D-Queued]

My problem with you is your ongoing insinuation that everyone in the world should have known about LA's and USPS doping when you claim you and other "insiders" did. ....

It was not until 2012 with the release of the USADA Reasoned Decision that the evidence proved the doping was overwhelming that the vast majority of the cycling public knew about the fact and extent of the doping so any suggestion Clara should have known in 2006 when she endorsed Barry's training book is just absurd.

Yet you keep beating this hollow drum. Give it a rest.

What are you so afraid of. If you are certain of her lack of knowledge, then we should shine a bright light on this episode. The truth will prevail.

This whole thing is just curious.

You appear to be certain beyond any doubt, whatsoever. That is also curious.

As for the bolded part of your comment quoted above, are you suggesting that only insiders had any sense of Armstrong doping?

The headlines about Armstrong and USPS had gone on for years. From Wikipedia:

"For much of his career, Armstrong faced persistent allegations of doping"

Forgetting about some of the early stuff, the truth had started to spill out all over the place by the time Barry wrote his book and Clara endorsed it.

2004: LA Confidential
2005: L'Equipe Article revealing positive EPO tests
2005: SCA Promotions case
2006: LA Times article with Ashenden analysis of blood values

Its just all very curious.

That is what was public. Behind the scenes, complete outsiders like myself were being solicited to out Canadian members of USPS/Disco as dopers. So odd.

It is all so curious.

I can agree with you on Clara.

That doesn't mean we cannot have a discussion about this. Why do we need to end our dialog?

If I agree with you, then don't we move back to Michael, who is the real subject of this thread?

If Clara was hoodwinked by Michael, should we conclude that Michael really is that good at deceit?

Perhaps he was more Armstrong's peer as a sociopath than as a doped cyclist.

Dave.

 

[Granville57]

Since we're here...

Daniel Coyle just called. He wanted to remind some folks that his book, Lance Armstrong's War, came out in 2005. The recounting of Mike Anderson discovering PEDs in Armstrong's bathroom, by itself, should have been enough for anyone with half a functioning brain cell to question the entire myth right then and there.

The inner sleeve of my copy also reveals that the book sold for:
$25.95 in the U.S.A
$34.95 in Canada.

My copy is in English, but I'm assuming it was translated into "Canadian" as well.

 

[the delgados]

My problem with you is your ongoing insinuation that everyone in the world should have known about LA's and USPS doping when you claim you and other "insiders" did. Sure there were lots of sceptics but to continue to argue that you somehow had special clairvoyant knowledge of proof of the doping is just self promoting puffery.

The reality is it was not until 2010 when Landis sent his e-mails that the cat was out of the bag and even then a huge majority of people didn't believe him. The UCI dissed him and McQuaid and Verbruggen sued him. LA attacked him. Huge swaths of the cycling community closer to the doping issue than you didn't accept LA had doped (and by extension that Barry had doped)

Yet you knew and because you knew people like Clara should have known as well. Well that defies logic and if you read Barry's public comments in November of 2012 he clearly stated he deceived his friends about his doping.

It was not until 2012 with the release of the USADA Reasoned Decision that the evidence proved the doping was overwhelming that the vast majority of the cycling public knew about the fact and extent of the doping so any suggestion Clara should have known in 2006 when she endorsed Barry's training book is just absurd.

Yet you keep beating this hollow drum. Give it a rest.

I've read the second last paragraph several times over and over again and I'm officially hypnotized.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

I've read the second last paragraph several times over and over again and I'm officially hypnotized.

It is scientifically proven that hypnotherapy reduces anxiety. I hope you are feeling better.

 

[the delgados]

It is scientifically proven that hypnotherapy reduces anxiety. I hope you are feeling better.

This forum needs a "like" option.

 

[Neworld]

The only difference between a guy like Michael Barry and Rob Ford is about 100kg. They are both from Ontario, both dopers and they both spout a bunch of nonsense.

Barry takes himself for some kind of pseudo poet, his prose makes me want to barf. And if he wants to quote his French "directeur sportif" he should at least try to get it right.

I liken Barry to Jim Carey, both once Canadian (Carrey is now an American), who once lived in Ontario.

Carrey overacts....Barry over-'scribes'. He uses sentence modifiers like he pops pills.

Carrey married a non-sensical dummy named Jenna McCarthy whose anti vaccination rants did more disservice to paediatric immunization in 10 yrs than the last 300.
Barry married, and doped with, Dede D-B, both who gained doping success over the same 2 years.

Just go away Michael, you've made your bed lined with lies and arrogance.

 

[Neworld]

I've read the second last paragraph several times over and over again and I'm officially hypnotized.

'
Do you mean like another good ole Canadian...Ross Rebagliati 'hypnotized'?

Every Canadian gets a 'Mulligan' to write silly paragraphs like Robbie did...but if he does it again we should send Dr. M after him.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

My opinion, in all reasoned fairness, is that anyone involved in cycling at the time (even now) that 'vouches' for someone is either naive, ***, or covering their *ss for the future.

Those are all fair approaches.

Remember, it's not up to riders to clean this goat show up.

Hughes made a banally supportive comment about a small time Canadian rider? Big deal.

That doesn't mean that rabid supporters like Robbie Canuck don't need to be held to account for their posts.

 

[westerner]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2010/05/20/toronto_cyclist_michael_barry_denies_claims_he_used_drugs.html

I'd say that Clara was more than just banally supportive with her comments in this article. I think at the time of this article there was the feeling Armstrong and crew had a pretty good chance to get away scott free. Painting Floyd as a crazy bitter liar in the media was part of tactic. I just cannot comprehend why Clara waded into this mess. And it was definitely looking very iffy at the time to anyone with an elite sports background. Sure Michael was a small time pro in the grand scheme of things, but Floyd made sure Michael did not go un-noticed. Needless to say there is no debating whether Dede was naive or a full on liar.

Neworld speaks for many. Michael should just go away, leave the Canadian cycling scene alone and please just find another metier.

 

[Bannockburn]

Huge swaths of the cycling community closer to the doping issue than you didn't accept LA had doped (and by extension that Barry had doped).

Which huge swaths are these? Everyone in the community that was actually close to doping knew full well what was going on so let's not try to act as if it was some huge secret.

If you rule out anyone who was close to the doping issue, the amount of people left who were even theoretically completely in the dark is so minute that it is was anything but a "huge swath." So again: who comprised this huge swath?

 

[Race Radio]

interesting that Berry makes a point of Tramdol use at Sky......considering he was the guy who introduced it into the team. He had used it for years, including at High Road

 

[Night Rider]

My problem with you is your ongoing insinuation that everyone in the world should have known about LA's and USPS doping when you claim you and other "insiders" did. Sure there were lots of sceptics but to continue to argue that you somehow had special clairvoyant knowledge of proof of the doping is just self promoting puffery.

The reality is it was not until 2010 when Landis sent his e-mails that the cat was out of the bag and even then a huge majority of people didn't believe him.

After June 2004 you didn't need to be an insider to know about Armstrong's doping. A former team mate was already on record and in print describing doping methods by Armstrong. That is eyewitness evidence. You either chose to believe Swart or Armstrong. I liked Swart's credibility.

Swart was also a much more credible witness than Landis. Landis by 2010 had a lot more information though, obviously.

 

[Race Radio]

The reality is it was not until 2010 when Landis sent his e-mails that the cat was out of the bag

The reality is for most people the cat was out of the bag when USPS staff were filmed dumping a bag filled with drugs, syringes, and medical waste in 2000