Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[Ruby United]

I am a bit wary with all the "teachings" that Sky might try to instill into Landa.

Landa is a unique climber nowadays, who rides low tempo on hard gears and even allows himself to attack up the road hands on the drops ala Pantani.

He has also shown to be a quite temperamental rider, prone to attacking long range if necessary.

I don't wan't a Froome 2.0. who only attacks behind the Sky chu-chu train in the 7km to go range with a crazy windmill.

For me, the less that Sky messes up with Landa's way of riding, the better. Just give him the medical support and 2-3 good domestiques for the Giro and let him be.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

He didn't lose time because he was bad positioned, he was empty.

he was empty, but why?
He was ok in the first days and he was good as well in Andorra, for pure climber a flat day that finished in a hard shor climb is not the best. All the leader always want people to work in thoe days, team is important to that, becouse other way yoy waste strenth fighteen agin the wind, the diferente to have people to work for you in days like that or not to have is huge. it is a misture of things, of course, hot, stress some days, but those kind of stages are always bad for him. But with a team helping he can save those days or even shine in the final climb.

if you think other way, you will learn more about cycling with time, cycling is not cycling manager. i have seen cycling for more that 30 years and I realized some years ago I didnt know a lot about cycling, when I though that yes.

He wanst in his best potencial shape in all the Vuelta, maybe nobody except Dumoulin or Chaves, but he wanst bad.
Landa was in Burgos 10Th first day in Clunia, that is not a really bad shape, but after to be at a hight speed in the ITT in Burgos, I was there an was really windy (in la Vuelta ITT was not windy), and he suffered to follow Luis León, Taraaamae s whell in the plain and he couldnt follow their wheels in the castle.

You can think what you want, but the Landa of Andorra or Madrid is the same or similar, becouse hot afected, that the Landa who losed time in Cumbre del Sol or another days.

Landa was so strong in Andorra becouse he losed lot of time in cumbre del sol and in Madrid becouse in Avila he losed 20 minutes. With a team prrotected him things are different. That is important and Giant did that for Dumoulin. The other part to be a leader is toi have mates in the mountains, but he dont need much team for that. If you hacve twocard like in the Giro, is the best situation, but they didnt want to take advantage of that, just to help Aru to be second, but, seriously, Amador is strong, but no so strong to be second.

you continue to not have a clue about real cycling... when you said that purito is better climber than contador...

Yes, it is true, but Alberto is a better rider. anyway i dont mind how is a bettr climber, I just say them to put examples, just to explain how cycling works out. I ue to ay contador necoueis now areference, but I will try to put other bames in the future becouse I see some people doent like.

Possibly Pozzovivo is a bettr climber than Contador, but he is going to win Contador one time to 10 in the mountains, so, in fact, Contador is better. But in an ITT to the Mortitolo with all of them the same rest in a good sjape, probably Pozzo and Purito win contador, anyway similar. In a GT, possibly contador win an ITT to the Mortirolo both of them.

I say the same with Froome, but Froome is not a climber, as Contador, so for him to be fresh is and advantage, after some mountians stages, would be worse for him an ITT like that. For Contador, woudl be better respect riders as Pozzovivo or Purito.

I suddenly remembered that "Hesjedal is a better TT'er than Contador" when I was reading that sentence

I have never said that about Hesjedal, but i said Hesjedal will climb better than Contador at the end of the giro and it was like that, in Ologno, and in Finestre, and maybe even in mortorolo stage, becopuse the stage of Hesjedal was really amazing.

Respect my sentence about Pozzovivo, I think that if you read well you can understand, and you can say; oh, what god is Contador, Taxus have said Contador is going to win Pozzo in a mountain stage 9 of 10. even I dindt say Pozzo is a best climber, but what I want to say is the the results in cycling are a mixture of the quality of riders, and Contador is clearly Better than Pozzo.

But Pozzo was the best in the climbing first part of both Giro and Vuelta ITT 2014. but he lost a lot in the flat part of Giro ITT. That is a good example of what I mean.

I didnt say anything strange, I just analyze cycling, but some people just get a headline that sound striking, it is always like that nowadays in society.

In a stage with 2 climbs and a final climb, of 150 Km, 20 Km are climbing, 10 km are descending, and 120 are more or less flat, sometimesevne with wind... So it is not the best climber who is going to win the stage, it is going to be a climber who is good as well in the 120 km of flat. It you are in a Tour, a lot of factors more you have to consider.

The same the faster man in earth is not Cavendish or Kittel...of coruse would be a man who can get 90 Km/h in a moment in a flat sprint without wind, but that man cant get 70 Km7h after 200 km stage. So cavendish os not the best sprinter just becoue he is fast...matbe there are worse riders faster than him.

I hope you understand.

 

[SeriousSam]

But Armstrong, the ultimate GT rider, won the MTTs, the ITTs and the MTFs. Being good in one of these (except ITT unless heavy) correlates very highly with being good at the others.

MTTs are shamefully rare but we have some more recent evidence too with Quintana and Aru dominating an MTT and lo and behold, they are amongst the best whenever the road goes up even with 200k flat beforehand. It seems like any high level road cyclist isn't wrecked by the 200km beforehand so when the foot of the mountain is reached, the climbing ability decides. Could be that some riders might be able to climb better without the 200k before but the pressures of selection probably prevented them from ever making it to the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

If you're good enough to do close to 6 w/kg on a long climb, you're almost automatically good enough to sit in the bunch doing nothing, which is the most important thing GC contenders do on flat roads

 

[staubsauger]

Obviously people tend to see Landa as a typically fragile pure climber.

Meanwhile my impression is that his climbing style and body language looks very vintage and oldschool. Also he likes rain and fog, apparently. Stylewise somehow he really reminds me of the likes of Hennie Kuiper. Although Landa ain't no classics rider at all of course. But their climbing looks pretty similar from my impression.

Or am I totally brain damaged on this one?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Obviously people tend to see Landa as a typically fragile pure climber.

Meanwhile my impression is that his climbing style and body language looks very vintage and oldschool. Also he likes rain and fog, apparently. Stylewise somehow he really reminds me of the likes of Hennie Kuiper. Although Landa ain't no classics rider at all of course. But their climbing looks pretty similar from my impression.

Or am I totally brain damaged on this one?

I think he is a relatively fragile climber. We are not talking Rujano or Piepoli-fragile, but I think the Vuelta showed that he doesnt like hard racing in wind fx and needs a team devoted for him in those instances. And he is probably one of the, if not the, worst TT'ers among GC-guys, I dont know if that makes him fragile, but I think he is one of the 'purest' climbers out there. I mean, maybe Quintana is even more, but Quintana is anything but fragile and pure climbers tend to be that.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Obviously people tend to see Landa as a typically fragile pure climber.

Meanwhile my impression is that his climbing style and body language looks very vintage and oldschool. Also he likes rain and fog, apparently. Stylewise somehow he really reminds me of the likes of Hennie Kuiper. Although Landa ain't no classics rider at all of course. But their climbing looks pretty similar from my impression.

Or am I totally brain damaged on this one?

He's built like Gibo and also seems to love long, hard mountain stages and bad weather.

 

[Miburo]

Armstrong the ultimate GT rider? lol

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Armstrong the ultimate GT rider? lol

Well he VERY rarely got beat in any TT's by GC folks and could basically win every mountain stage if he wanted to, apart from a odd year like 2003. He was unbeatable in 7 years in a row in the worlds biggest race, so yes, Armstrong was by modern standards the ultimate GT-rider.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

If you're good enough to do close to 6 w/kg on a long climb, you're almost automatically good enough to sit in the bunch doing nothing, which is the most important thing GC contenders do on flat roads

You know abourt cycling as I knew with 8 years old if you really think like that.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

If you're good enough to do close to 6 w/kg on a long climb, you're almost automatically good enough to sit in the bunch doing nothing, which is the most important thing GC contenders do on flat roads

You know abourt cycling as I knew with 8 years old if you really think like that.

This sentence doesn't even make any grammatical sense.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

If you're good enough to do close to 6 w/kg on a long climb, you're almost automatically good enough to sit in the bunch doing nothing, which is the most important thing GC contenders do on flat roads

You know abourt cycling as I knew with 8 years old if you really think like that.

This sentence doesn't even make any grammatical sense.

Here 8 old year, makes sense perfect

 

[Taxus4a]

Landa will be in Il Lombardia and Milano-Torino and Gran Piemonte.

Very good news.

 

[staubsauger]

So ironically due to pr reasons he's finally gonna get team leadership in his last race for Astana. Landa should be one of the favorites for Lombardia, then.

As long as that goofy Shefer won't ask him to wait for Zeits and Rosa, of course.

 

[bala v]

Re:

So ironically due to pr reasons he's finally gonna get team leadership in his last race for Astana. Landa should be one of the favorites for Lombardia, then.

As long as that goofy Shefer won't ask him to wait for Zeits and Rosa, of course.

He's not going to be leader there, Nibali is riding...

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

So ironically due to pr reasons he's finally gonna get team leadership in his last race for Astana. Landa should be one of the favorites for Lombardia, then.

As long as that goofy Shefer won't ask him to wait for Zeits and Rosa, of course.

He's not going to be leader there, Nibali is riding...

Landa says he's motivated to win.

Edith asks: “Where is Nibali riding? On his bike or in the team car with Shefer?“

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

So ironically due to pr reasons he's finally gonna get team leadership in his last race for Astana. Landa should be one of the favorites for Lombardia, then.

As long as that goofy Shefer won't ask him to wait for Zeits and Rosa, of course.

He's not going to be leader there, Nibali is riding...

Landa says he's motivated to win.

I just love how we get so many different messages from the Astana crew. Landa implies that he was going against team strategy, management says something different, and Aru says it was all part of the grand plan and he celebrates Landa's success. Aru should be a politician.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

So ironically due to pr reasons he's finally gonna get team leadership in his last race for Astana. Landa should be one of the favorites for Lombardia, then.

As long as that goofy Shefer won't ask him to wait for Zeits and Rosa, of course.

He's not going to be leader there, Nibali is riding...

Landa says he's motivated to win.

I just love how we get so many different messages from the Astana crew. Landa implies that he was going against team strategy, management says something different, and Aru says it was all part of the grand plan and he celebrates Landa's success. Aru should be a politician.

Aru certainly knows how to cluster people around him. But he also knows how to respect them and be polite and thankful towards pals. Ultimately he kept the peace with Landa, not Beppe, Shefer and Vino. At least that's my impression. Aru knew who to thank immediately, when he crossed the finish line as the Vuelta winner.

 

[Taxus4a]

Well, Astana has 3 cards, but there are a lot of favorites, I dont think any strategy of Astana exclude the possibility of Landa winning. This year the race will be very hard, so the best will win.

 

[jens_attacks]

aru and landa actually like each other. mikel respects him a lot otherwise he would never worked that hard for him. but his problems were with martinelli and the management.

about lombardia...it will be very hard for mikel to do his own race. nibali wants to win at all costs there, i feel.

 

[staubsauger]

Landa is a much more likely winner than Nibali. He can attack on the final col, go hard on the descent and win the final uphill sprint.

Nibali can attack on the final col with the hope to stay away, because of the descent. Never played out until this point.

 

[jens_attacks]

nibali is back at his best level though, truly frightening

he wants to save his image from la vuelta, he will put amazing attacks in lombardia. and landa won't chase him, i think

 

[staubsauger]

Re:

nibali is back at his best level though, truly frightening

he wants to save his image from la vuelta, he will put amazing attacks in lombardia. and landa won't chase him, i think

But the others probably would do so.

Landa has to race like Stijn Devolder. At least that's what normally should be Astana's match plan.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

nibali is back at his best level though, truly frightening

he wants to save his image from la vuelta, he will put amazing attacks in lombardia. and landa won't chase him, i think

Yes, but other riders as Valverde, Dan Martin, uran, can do it, and Landa must be there, if Nibali is the strongest of the race Landa is not going to be a problem. the same if Landa attack form far is a good position for Nibali, but of Landa ios very strong he can win. the same if a rider attack form far, landa can follow him, the us good for the team.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Landa is a much more likely winner than Nibali. He can attack on the final col, go hard on the descent and win the final uphill sprint.

Nibali can attack on the final col with the hope to stay away, because of the descent. Never played out until this point.

Landa much more likely winner than Nibali?! Maybe in your dreams... Landa is still "green" for this kind of race, Nibali is much better on this terrain.

And what uphill sprint?