Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[Taxus4a]

If Landa win this Giro, it will be at the end, at Lombarda, The hardest climb of the Giro is Agnello, second Lombarda, and third Bonnette and fourth Giau, It is in those kind of climbs where he can drop people, but just with the stage of Giau it is not posible, even he could be clearly the strongest in Giau and doesnt take time to Nibali or riders like that... Giau is hard, but it is not Mortirolo...

Raccarasso is the 15th harder climb of the Giro, it is like to climb Agnello till the start of his really hard 10 final Km

Except he was very inspired in the climb ITT, we dont have lot of references from him in that...none playing as leader...

 

[Pricey_sky]

The most concerning thing for Landa must be his apparent suffering with allergies, Surely that wont go away over the next 2 weeks?

 

[CTQ]

@therealthing

The video is a joke. MSQRD on the video is an APP and you can modify your face with.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I don't know what to make of him, but then again, I don't know what to make out of anything in this Giro.

Seems like the most open race I can remember right now, but on the other hand, we haven't got into real mountains yet. Valverde, Nibali, Dumoulin, Landa, Zakarin, heck even Fuglsang and Uran can win and I wouldn't be seriously surprised.

Landa will put on a show in 1 or 2 stages. Thats all he needs.

This edition of the Giro is hardly overflowing with mountains with only 2 MT finishes - Even if GC contenders get dropped on the last climb or two, they can get time back on the descents if they have team support.

That is true, but if last year Giro Landa acelerates alone at the begining of mortirolo, he would have got in aprica, with a descent and some false flat 2 or 3 minutes over the second.

In stages like Giau, and the last two ones, Risoul and Lombarda, a pure climber can do lot of damage to everybody, it is possible, I mean possible, I dont ay it i easy, we have lot of examples in the past... to recover 10 minutes in those 3 stages even without a great team. But it is not always easy to have strenth at the end of the Giro...

Dumoulin is a big rider, but Giro ha the hardest mountains stages.. with no big team and if everybody go againts him, he can lose a lot of time in those 3 stages..., no 10 minutes, much more if there is a great climber inspired.

In a TdF similar to the one Wiggo won, and with a good team, Domoulin will be in the future the favourite. He is going to improve...he need experience and more GT in his legs...but he has the engine to be a Tour winner.

This is not the edition of the Giro with more mountain, but those 3 stages are enough, and there is a climb ITT. In that Dumoulin could be better than Landa, but I am not sure...something to discover...

 

[Matteo.]

What do you think about the MTT and Landa's ability? MTT is anyway a time trial and not all climbers doing well.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

What do you think about the MTT and Landa's ability? MTT is anyway a time trial and not all climbers doing well.

As I said, something to discover...I dont know his opinion or SKy opinion in his tests...
There is mot much to analyze, lot of pure climbers who are not very good in flat ITT do very well in mountains ITTs: Rujano, Quintana, Aru, Pozzovivo,...

But as you said it is not just a question to climb well.

Acording his only ITT was in the Giro, he did better than in the "flat" ITT of that Giro... it is not a reference from this Giro, becouse he lost more than 7 minutes with Quintana in that ITT, but it is important to compare with the other ITT

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=26044
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=26051

He was similar than in the mountains stages, maybe a little bit better.

He shows he has improved in ITT, his better ITTs are the hilly one of Pais Vasco...so I think he can do it well, if he is the stronger in the other stages, he is going to be close to the best in that ITT, or who knows, maybe if he has a good day even win, but I dont think so...

I think Aru is better in that, so if I see Aru was second 2 years ago, Landa would be with his actual level close to that, about a minute from Aru that day...

If you havve a bad day in an ITT you can lose a lot...thi is a short one, but it i easy to lose 1 minute among climbers of a similar level...

Landa need more experiencefor this.. but to be in SKy is the best place to be to avoid the lack of experience...they have better data than any other team to tell you when to go faster or no...

By the way, Martinelli said yesterday Landa shouldnt go to SKY as leader, that Astana paid him the same...I dont agree...

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

What do you think about the MTT and Landa's ability? MTT is anyway a time trial and not all climbers doing well.

If a 'climber' can't do well in a MTT, he's not a climber, he's at best a pace-change specialist, ie someone who might be doing really well when responding to accelerations and then recovering immediately after falling back to a slow pace, ready to jump again.

If the average group pace during a climb is slow enough (ie significantly below the sustainable limit which would be revealed, adjusting for drafting, in a MTT) such a person might win the stage and get a bit of time. But he'd get crushed in MTTs or climbs done with searing average pace like PSM. Not a climber for me.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

I don't know what to make of him, but then again, I don't know what to make out of anything in this Giro.

Seems like the most open race I can remember right now, but on the other hand, we haven't got into real mountains yet. Valverde, Nibali, Dumoulin, Landa, Zakarin, heck even Fuglsang and Uran can win and I wouldn't be seriously surprised.

Landa will put on a show in 1 or 2 stages. Thats all he needs.

This edition of the Giro is hardly overflowing with mountains with only 2 MT finishes - Even if GC contenders get dropped on the last climb or two, they can get time back on the descents if they have team support.

That is true, but if last year Giro Landa acelerates alone at the begining of mortirolo, he would have got in aprica, with a descent and some false flat 2 or 3 minutes over the second.

In stages like Giau, and the last two ones, Risoul and Lombarda, a pure climber can do lot of damage to everybody, it is possible, I mean possible, I dont ay it i easy, we have lot of examples in the past... to recover 10 minutes in those 3 stages even without a great team. But it is not always easy to have strenth at the end of the Giro...

Dumoulin is a big rider, but Giro ha the hardest mountains stages.. with no big team and if everybody go againts him, he can lose a lot of time in those 3 stages..., no 10 minutes, much more if there is a great climber inspired.

In a TdF similar to the one Wiggo won, and with a good team, Domoulin will be in the future the favourite. He is going to improve...he need experience and more GT in his legs...but he has the engine to be a Tour winner.

This is not the edition of the Giro with more mountain, but those 3 stages are enough, and there is a climb ITT. In that Dumoulin could be better than Landa, but I am not sure...something to discover...

Dude, your main problem is that you think landa is pantani but HE ISN'T!!!

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

I don't know what to make of him, but then again, I don't know what to make out of anything in this Giro.

Seems like the most open race I can remember right now, but on the other hand, we haven't got into real mountains yet. Valverde, Nibali, Dumoulin, Landa, Zakarin, heck even Fuglsang and Uran can win and I wouldn't be seriously surprised.

Landa will put on a show in 1 or 2 stages. Thats all he needs.

This edition of the Giro is hardly overflowing with mountains with only 2 MT finishes - Even if GC contenders get dropped on the last climb or two, they can get time back on the descents if they have team support.

If raced like last year there won't be any team support even in the last climbs themselves, let alone the descents.
Occasional alliances will be more important.

 

[JRanton]

He had a close call at the finish today. He just managed to close the gap to the rider in front as they crossed the finishing line, saving 5 seconds or so.

Tomorrow could be a difficult day for him.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Landa said yesterday that he does not start GT at his strongest so I expect him to get stronger as he goes along ...but with only 3 stages for him to get back time on Doumulin then he may run out road before he can take pink

But its far from over ...by this next week it is possible the top 3 will be 3 different riders and then 3 different again in the final week

3? I count 8. Not all of them are big chances but Dumoulin also isnt a super strong climber so he could also loose time to Landa on stages like stages 10 or 18

Is leader at the wrong race. Parcours is not hilly enough for Landa which then combined with 3 TT's is unsuitable - His major target in 2016 should have been the Vuelta.

So you suggest he shouldnt have ridden the giro and only the Vuelta?

Yes - Especially seeing Landa's delayed start to the season - Also Chavez shouldn't be in the Giro with the parcours - Chavez should be riding the TDF.

Seriously? You think this giro will harm his chances in the vuelta that much? And you think Sky will be satisfied if he rides one big race in the whole season?

You ride to win - It's all about maximising your opportunities A few of the GC guys only ride one GT - Its nothing new

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I don't know what to make of him, but then again, I don't know what to make out of anything in this Giro.

Seems like the most open race I can remember right now, but on the other hand, we haven't got into real mountains yet. Valverde, Nibali, Dumoulin, Landa, Zakarin, heck even Fuglsang and Uran can win and I wouldn't be seriously surprised.

Landa will put on a show in 1 or 2 stages. Thats all he needs.

This edition of the Giro is hardly overflowing with mountains with only 2 MT finishes - Even if GC contenders get dropped on the last climb or two, they can get time back on the descents if they have team support.

Hardly overflowing, but there are really good ones though.

Yes some stages are good - The reality is you lose more time on an uphill finish - This is where riders like Landa make time.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I don't know what to make of him, but then again, I don't know what to make out of anything in this Giro.

Seems like the most open race I can remember right now, but on the other hand, we haven't got into real mountains yet. Valverde, Nibali, Dumoulin, Landa, Zakarin, heck even Fuglsang and Uran can win and I wouldn't be seriously surprised.

Landa will put on a show in 1 or 2 stages. Thats all he needs.

This edition of the Giro is hardly overflowing with mountains with only 2 MT finishes - Even if GC contenders get dropped on the last climb or two, they can get time back on the descents if they have team support.

That is true, but if last year Giro Landa acelerates alone at the begining of mortirolo, he would have got in aprica, with a descent and some false flat 2 or 3 minutes over the second.

In stages like Giau, and the last two ones, Risoul and Lombarda, a pure climber can do lot of damage to everybody, it is possible, I mean possible, I dont ay it i easy, we have lot of examples in the past... to recover 10 minutes in those 3 stages even without a great team. But it is not always easy to have strenth at the end of the Giro...

Dumoulin is a big rider, but Giro ha the hardest mountains stages.. with no big team and if everybody go againts him, he can lose a lot of time in those 3 stages..., no 10 minutes, much more if there is a great climber inspired.

In a TdF similar to the one Wiggo won, and with a good team, Domoulin will be in the future the favourite. He is going to improve...he need experience and more GT in his legs...but he has the engine to be a Tour winner.

This is not the edition of the Giro with more mountain, but those 3 stages are enough, and there is a climb ITT. In that Dumoulin could be better than Landa, but I am not sure...something to discover...

Dumoulin has a stronger team at the Giro and they will be better organised. I guarantee that Giant Alpecin will have one or two riders in breakaways during mountain stages in the last week to assist Dumoulin on descents/flats if he is dropped on a climb - Do this in stage 20 of the 2015 Vuelta and he would have been champion.

 

[jens_attacks]

for me that video he posted means that he will absolutely fly in the 3rd week.

in gazzetta i've read: "in a couple of days, i will be in my top form."

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

The most concerning thing for Landa must be his apparent suffering with allergies, Surely that wont go away over the next 2 weeks?

But Sky have the top Drs/scientists in the world working for them. I'm sure they will find an appropriate TUE to do the job.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

I don't know what to make of him, but then again, I don't know what to make out of anything in this Giro.

Seems like the most open race I can remember right now, but on the other hand, we haven't got into real mountains yet. Valverde, Nibali, Dumoulin, Landa, Zakarin, heck even Fuglsang and Uran can win and I wouldn't be seriously surprised.

Landa will put on a show in 1 or 2 stages. Thats all he needs.

This edition of the Giro is hardly overflowing with mountains with only 2 MT finishes - Even if GC contenders get dropped on the last climb or two, they can get time back on the descents if they have team support.

That is true, but if last year Giro Landa acelerates alone at the begining of mortirolo, he would have got in aprica, with a descent and some false flat 2 or 3 minutes over the second.

In stages like Giau, and the last two ones, Risoul and Lombarda, a pure climber can do lot of damage to everybody, it is possible, I mean possible, I dont ay it i easy, we have lot of examples in the past... to recover 10 minutes in those 3 stages even without a great team. But it is not always easy to have strenth at the end of the Giro...

Dumoulin is a big rider, but Giro ha the hardest mountains stages.. with no big team and if everybody go againts him, he can lose a lot of time in those 3 stages..., no 10 minutes, much more if there is a great climber inspired.

In a TdF similar to the one Wiggo won, and with a good team, Domoulin will be in the future the favourite. He is going to improve...he need experience and more GT in his legs...but he has the engine to be a Tour winner.

This is not the edition of the Giro with more mountain, but those 3 stages are enough, and there is a climb ITT. In that Dumoulin could be better than Landa, but I am not sure...something to discover...

Dumoulin has a stronger team at the Giro and they will be better organised. I guarantee that Giant Alpecin will have one or two riders in breakaways during mountain stages in the last week to assist Dumoulin on descents/flats if he is dropped on a climb - Do this in stage 20 of the 2015 Vuelta and he would have been champion.

Not really, the guy lost like 4 minutes.

He has a pretty bad team this Giro. One or two OK domestiques is not as good as Lopez, Fugslang, Kangert, Taaramae (Zakarin), Amador and Scarponi to name a few. Like Taxus says, unless he is much better or the opposition much worse then on stages like Cividale, Corvara and the Bonette-Lombarde stage he will lose a lot of time, even if he has domestiques.

If, say, he is dropped on the Giau; then we can expect a lot of time to be lost on it (1-2 minutes). If Astana still have men, which they probably will seeing how they're going, they will absolutely brick it up the climb, until Nibali and/or Fugslang attack. Then he'll lose time on the descent, then he'll lose time on the Valporola, then on the flat at the end too if he is alone or even with one team mate.

If Landa/Nibali is in top form for those stages, or even good form, Dumoulin will lose minutes.

 

[Red Rick]

Losing 4 minutes happened when you just get dropped and 5 guys work together solely to gap you for the next 50km.

 

[ray j willings]

I really think if Landa shows his best climbing form he may get all the way round. He's already had his a%5 kicked . He's just another LRP.
You Landa dream boys have no idea about cycle racing. Get on your bikes and start riding a bike up a mountain then comment. Landa is 2nd tier and can only win a stage on a climb if he is no threat to overall and the top boys let him get in a break .
Landa LRP G just good domestics nothing else. Sky only care about Froome nothing else.

 

[Matteo.]

Re:

I
You Landa dream boys have no idea about cycle racing. Get on your bikes and start riding a bike up a mountain then comment. .

hahaha, you instead were a pro.who do you think you are ? for sure,not a pro for respect of the opinions of others.

anyway, we'll see. Maybe Landa is only a super domestique, maybe not. It will be the way of the Giro to say that and at the moment it is a little early to make easy conclusions

 

[Hayabusa]

Re: Re:

I
You Landa dream boys have no idea about cycle racing. Get on your bikes and start riding a bike up a mountain then comment. .

hahaha, you instead were a pro.who do you think you are ? for sure,not a pro for respect of the opinions of others.

anyway, we'll see. Maybe Landa is only a super domestique, maybe not. It will be the way of the Giro to say that and at the moment it is a little early to make easy conclusions

Just ignore the troll.

It will be interesting to see how Landa performs in the proper mountains. Whether he's in enough form to win, that's hard to say but at the very least he'll make it interesting.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Losing 4 minutes happened when you just get dropped and 5 guys work together solely to gap you for the next 50km.

I agree, the difference in some stages like that to get rped and lost 4 minutes and to dont lose time or even win the stage at the end is just a guy helping you in the key moment...

In some Giro stages that 4 minutes could be 8...but for that like in la Morcuera an inspired Landa or similar rider has to put his pace...

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I
You Landa dream boys have no idea about cycle racing. Get on your bikes and start riding a bike up a mountain then comment. .

hahaha, you instead were a pro.who do you think you are ? for sure,not a pro for respect of the opinions of others.

anyway, we'll see. Maybe Landa is only a super domestique, maybe not. It will be the way of the Giro to say that and at the moment it is a little early to make easy conclusions

I'm someone whos go's out 5 /6 times a week and rides my bike. I am someone who has rode lots of the famous col's in a pretty fast time. My opinion is way more valid than a fat armchair critic who has no idea about the level between the best and the rest.

To Hayabusa , Because I have a different opinion does not make me a troll. Get over yourself.
Lets see when Landa hits the mountains and loses more time.
Want to bet a jersey? I say he will be at least 2 minutes behind the giro winner?
I'm prepared to back up my words are you?

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

I
You Landa dream boys have no idea about cycle racing. Get on your bikes and start riding a bike up a mountain then comment. .

hahaha, you instead were a pro.who do you think you are ? for sure,not a pro for respect of the opinions of others.

anyway, we'll see. Maybe Landa is only a super domestique, maybe not. It will be the way of the Giro to say that and at the moment it is a little early to make easy conclusions

I'm someone whos go's out 5 /6 times a week and rides my bike. I am someone who has rode lots of the famous col's in a pretty fast time. My opinion is way more valid than a fat armchair critic who has no idea about the level between the best and the rest.

To Hayabusa , Because I have a different opinion does not make me a troll. Get over yourself.
Lets see when Landa hits the mountains and loses more time.
Want to bet a jersey? I say he will be at least 2 minutes behind the giro winner?
I'm prepared to back up my words are you?

Please keep the betting to avatars.

Cheers

 

[harryh]

Re: Re:

I
You Landa dream boys have no idea about cycle racing. Get on your bikes and start riding a bike up a mountain then comment. .

hahaha, you instead were a pro.who do you think you are ? for sure,not a pro for respect of the opinions of others.

anyway, we'll see. Maybe Landa is only a super domestique, maybe not. It will be the way of the Giro to say that and at the moment it is a little early to make easy conclusions

I'm someone whos go's out 5 /6 times a week and rides my bike. I am someone who has rode lots of the famous col's in a pretty fast time. My opinion is way more valid than a fat armchair critic who has no idea about the level between the best and the rest.

Do you have a Strava account (would be interesting to compare your numbers to mine who is nothing more than a fat armchair critic )

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I
You Landa dream boys have no idea about cycle racing. Get on your bikes and start riding a bike up a mountain then comment. .

hahaha, you instead were a pro.who do you think you are ? for sure,not a pro for respect of the opinions of others.

anyway, we'll see. Maybe Landa is only a super domestique, maybe not. It will be the way of the Giro to say that and at the moment it is a little early to make easy conclusions

Just ignore the troll.

It will be interesting to see how Landa performs in the proper mountains. Whether he's in enough form to win, that's hard to say but at the very least he'll make it interesting.

I love the 'I ride my bike more than you, so you know nothing' comments. I have seen a few of those in other threads as well, I have a very hard seeing how that contributes to anything besides mocking the poster's own intelligence.

Anyways, he will probably lose time tomorrow. And more time on stage 9.