Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[yaco]

Hope that Landa focuses on the Giro and the Vuelta in 2018 - The TDF can wait another year.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah, no way Landa is more complete than Quintana. While Quintana isn't complete by no means, Landa is still more of a pure climber than Quintana despite his bigger build and suddenly pretty decent TT. Quintana is, despite his size, good in crosswinds and positioning which Landa really hasn't showed much of yet.

Anyways, YES! This means Valverde, Quintana and Landa will ride one of the Tour or Vuelta on the same team. My 3 favourite riders on my favourite team, it doesnt get much better than that.

 

[Red Rick]

I think Landa and Quintana are very similar in terms of characteristics, but Landa has taken his sweet time to develop as a GT leader. Tactically, Landa seems way more agressive, but he's been out of contention a lot.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, at least the soap opera is done with. Let's face it, he was never going to be option A at Sky, I dare say Movistar will have had to give him certain guarantees on his calendar to get him to sign, since let's face it, he got one chance to lead at Sky, then a supposed co-leadership role at this year's Giro alongside George Hincapie, and when both of them went down George got the team riding to limit his losses and Mikel was abandoned to his fate. The inevitable problem with a team like Sky is that the budget can buy you a lot of great riders and the success can tempt a lot of great riders, but they will eventually outgrow their role in the team, and especially as long as Froome has unfinished business in Spain that's two GT leader roles out the window, and with riders like Thomas and Kwiatkowski developing into GT level climbers as well as the pantheon of world class super-doms they've got like Poels and Landa, that's a lot of riders left to compete over a limited calendar of grade A leadership. The fact Landa's skillset means he's not got the option of being repaid in Classics leadership will also impact what freedom he's given. He won't be the first or the last rider to go to Sky after going well at a GT only to leave later feeling he wasn't given the freedom, but that's the price you pay when you sign for a team where the competition for the top roles is so fierce.

 

[bigcog]

Think Sky will come to regret letting him go, or not giving him a better deal so he stayed.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Think Sky will come to regret letting him go, or not giving him a better deal so he stayed.

You cant keep somebody when they've decided to move on.
Thats life.
Maybe he'll be back at Sky 2 years from now. As a TdF captain.

 

[Red Rick]

Sky is clearly deciding they want Froome for the next few years before moving on to riders who there yet. They don't want 5 leaders now. Poels should be good enough to do the domestique job that Landa did at the Tour, Thomas is their 2nd man, and then they're gonna look for for the future.

 

[hazaran]

Re:

Well, at least the soap opera is done with. Let's face it, he was never going to be option A at Sky, I dare say Movistar will have had to give him certain guarantees on his calendar to get him to sign, since let's face it, he got one chance to lead at Sky, then a supposed co-leadership role at this year's Giro alongside George Hincapie, and when both of them went down George got the team riding to limit his losses and Mikel was abandoned to his fate. The inevitable problem with a team like Sky is that the budget can buy you a lot of great riders and the success can tempt a lot of great riders, but they will eventually outgrow their role in the team, and especially as long as Froome has unfinished business in Spain that's two GT leader roles out the window, and with riders like Thomas and Kwiatkowski developing into GT level climbers as well as the pantheon of world class super-doms they've got like Poels and Landa, that's a lot of riders left to compete over a limited calendar of grade A leadership. The fact Landa's skillset means he's not got the option of being repaid in Classics leadership will also impact what freedom he's given. He won't be the first or the last rider to go to Sky after going well at a GT only to leave later feeling he wasn't given the freedom, but that's the price you pay when you sign for a team where the competition for the top roles is so fierce.

He dropped 30 minutes in the second Giro, not sure what the team has got to do with that. Should they push him up the entire climb because he obviously wasn't remotely able to ride that day.

He got two chances and screwed up both before the team even became a factor.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Well, at least the soap opera is done with. Let's face it, he was never going to be option A at Sky, I dare say Movistar will have had to give him certain guarantees on his calendar to get him to sign, since let's face it, he got one chance to lead at Sky, then a supposed co-leadership role at this year's Giro alongside George Hincapie, and when both of them went down George got the team riding to limit his losses and Mikel was abandoned to his fate. The inevitable problem with a team like Sky is that the budget can buy you a lot of great riders and the success can tempt a lot of great riders, but they will eventually outgrow their role in the team, and especially as long as Froome has unfinished business in Spain that's two GT leader roles out the window, and with riders like Thomas and Kwiatkowski developing into GT level climbers as well as the pantheon of world class super-doms they've got like Poels and Landa, that's a lot of riders left to compete over a limited calendar of grade A leadership. The fact Landa's skillset means he's not got the option of being repaid in Classics leadership will also impact what freedom he's given. He won't be the first or the last rider to go to Sky after going well at a GT only to leave later feeling he wasn't given the freedom, but that's the price you pay when you sign for a team where the competition for the top roles is so fierce.

He dropped 30 minutes in the second Giro, not sure what the team has got to do with that. Should they push him up the entire climb because he obviously wasn't remotely able to ride that day.

He got two chances and screwed up both before the team even became a factor.

Yes, because the bad BBQ was obviously cooked by Landa and the moto crash this year was Landa's fault as well

 

[deValtos]

I was starting to think it wasn't going to happen. Must have been some serious negotiations.

Next question is who goes to the Tour and who goes to the Giro? I have to assume Landa will do the Giro and Quintana will do the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

Landa Giro and Quintana Tour seems all but certain.

The real decision is whether Landa doubles up in the Tour or the Vuelta, especially looking at how good Landa was in the Tour this year. A lot is gonna depend on routes, how the Giro goes though and how Valverde recovers. That could well be a climbing squad that is better than Sky.

 

[rick james]

Would have preferred him to stay at sky and be the leader at the giro, not a co leader just Landa as top dog at the giro for sky so I can understand why he's moved on....

 

[Singer01]

Re:

Landa Giro and Quintana Tour seems all but certain.

The real decision is whether Landa doubles up in the Tour or the Vuelta, especially looking at how good Landa was in the Tour this year. A lot is gonna depend on routes, how the Giro goes though and how Valverde recovers. That could well be a climbing squad that is better than Sky.

for me the most sensible option that should keep everyone happy and based on skill set and career development would be -
Landa = Giro as leader and Tour as superdom/back up option
Quintana = Tour as leader and Vuelta for second chance/joint leader
Valverde = Giro as Superdom and Vuelta as joint leader

Sky should also do this with Thomas, Froome, Poels (though clearly Poels would be back up rather than joint leader).

 

[offbyone]

Well if they give him a leadership role in a GT then he certainly will not be lacking in a supporting cast with Movistar. I guess come May we will get to see if he can actually back up all his whining.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think it will be more like this:

Landa
Landa, Quintana, Valverde
Quintana, Valverde

Why change something that worked for Landa this year? Then you can throw Soler into the TdF-mix and you are suddenly cooking, it has the potential to be a pretty brutal lineup, especially now you only can elect 8 riders.

 

[hazaran]

Re: Re:

He dropped 30 minutes in the second Giro, not sure what the team has got to do with that. Should they push him up the entire climb because he obviously wasn't remotely able to ride that day.

He got two chances and screwed up both before the team even became a factor.

Yes, because the bad BBQ was obviously cooked by Landa and the moto crash this year was Landa's fault as well

It matters to the palmares and ultimately salary. And frankly of course bad BBQ is his fault, these guys ride 6 hours then they spend the remaining 18 hours obsessing over not getting sick.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Would have preferred him to stay at sky and be the leader at the giro, not a co leader just Landa as top dog at the giro for sky so I can understand why he's moved on....

But if Froome wants Tour and Vuelta, how do they square that with the other guys who they've been fobbing off with minor races and co-leaderships for the last however long? Remember Leopold König signed for them off the back of finishing top 10 at the Tour, and the following year was nothing more than a middling domestique at the Giro. Guys like Poels and Thomas can't be palmed off forever (notwithstanding that I'm convinced that they'd rather back Sky lifer Thomas than wildcard Landa even in co-leadership positions and believe that what we saw on the road backs that up. And that frankly, even now, the team would rather back Thomas than a hypothetical Landa that stayed with them for 2018, all being equal) and the team's clearly committed itself to Froome long-term which restricts the other options, as they've shown themselves to be quite tactically inflexible in the past - such as having Froome domestiquing in the leader's jersey in the 2011 Vuelta or making both Urán and Henao drop back to pace Wiggins after he lost his nerve in the 2013 Giro, so Froome would have to fall apart Indurain '96 style for them to consider a plan B in a race Froome was leading.

Ultimately, if you want to be a GT leader, Sky is not a good place to go, because they've got a clear leader for two of them and a battle royale over the 3rd - and if you show well when given the opportunity, they won't see that as a sign that you can lead in your own right, but as a sign that you will be a good part of Froome's domestique corps. That's their modus operandi, and it's worked damn well for them, so you should know that going in. Landa made that bed for himself and had to lie in it, and certainly you could argue there are better places to go if you want freedom as a GT leader than Movistar, but then Movistar are on less than half Sky's budget, so they have to have offered him some pretty secure guarantees to justify springing. I certainly wouldn't expect Landa to have transferred if the deal on his calendar wasn't markedly better. And let's face it, while Quintana may be the 'A'-leader, Valverde's not going to be around much longer and there's less of a fight for the 'B' lead at Abarcá, as Landa's clearly more established than the guys like Soler.

 

[del1962]

The thing is Landa should have gone to a team where he can ride the Tour as undisputed leader, he doesn't get this at Movistar unless there is something we don't know about Quintana's intentions

 

[vedrafjord]

Yep says in interviews "I want to ride for myself" and then joins Quintana's team. I would have liked to see him join Trek.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re:

Yep says in interviews "I want to ride for myself" and then joins Quintana's team. I would have liked to see him join Trek.

Which is why he must have been given some guarantees.

 

[Amaru]

Re:

Yep says in interviews "I want to ride for myself" and then joins Quintana's team. I would have liked to see him join Trek.

Won't he have leadership on the Giro ? maybe that's enough for him.
I really don't know, just asking.

 

[dusty red roads]

Maybe there's still talk behind the scenes of Nairo leaving this year, regardless of what his agent said...? Guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[KyoGrey]

Don't discard Quintana leaving Movistar for Astaná.

Either way, Landa is going to have sole leadership in Giro/Tour and other races he was demanding, as recorded in some radio interviews before the Vuelta a Burgos.

Let's not forget that even last year he had to share his leadership in the Giro with Geraint Thomas. So this is a step forward in that sense.


The only black spot in this decision is the clash between Landa's attacking style and Unzue's conservative traits. Let's hope that Mikel holds his own.

 

[portugal11]

Hate to see him in movistar. Unzue is very conservative and i'm hoping he will not ruin landa's panache like he did with quintana.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Hate to see him in movistar. Unzue is very conservative and i'm hoping he will not ruin landa's panache like he did with quintana.

Rider himself has the last call imo. Unzue couldn't make him conservative, if his nature isn't like that. He's just that kind of rider me thinks. When he was younger he was more attacking-minded, but he had nothing to lose then. Already from his 2nd place at the Tour 2013, he became more and more conservative. Unzue didn't help either, but I think Quintana's nature had the deciding impact.