Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[Der Effe]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

Valid point. Landa is talking big all the time yet keeps signing for teams that have leaders who actually have won many big races. It's probably the mental gymnastics he performs to disguise the fact he is too insecure to ride for a team that would give him sole team leadership.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

He's demonstrated plenty, winning stages in Grand Tours, acting as a catalyst in those races. This is an asinine argument. People here laud other past and current riders who never won GTs yet showed similar class on the bike.

Cycling fans are strange. In other sports I follow, this would not elicit this sort of reaction.

 

[movingtarget]

Landa just has to win a GT to put the criticism to rest. Same with Porte although with him even a podium would be a start.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

He's demonstrated plenty, winning stages in Grand Tours, acting as a catalyst in those races. This is an asinine argument. People here laud other past and current riders who never won GTs yet showed similar class on the bike.

Cycling fans are strange. In other sports I follow, this would not elicit this sort of reaction.

You are entitled to your opinion but my argument and opinion are valid and rather than than being ascribed your rude arrogant 'asinine' label

We are talking about winning GTs ...that is what Landa is talking about ...not winning stages ...pointless if you dont even understand the issue under discussion

Plus we are commenting on his 'big' talk when he has not delivered a GT win, yet joined a team where there are leaders who have and still can .....plenty of other sports talk about contenders who have not delivered the big prizes...Andy Murray for instance was talked about for ever until he delivered...Heman also who never delivered ..also plenty of footballers and none make proclamations of how they were going to wait for no one or do their own thing


None of these comment would be made if Landa didnt go around spouting how no one was going to stand in his way ...no one has and he has not gone for it

 

[Blanco]

He just talks too much.

He had an opportunity at the Giro, but choose to follow team orders.

At Sky there was no chance Brailsford and Froome would let him to do his own race. They could've, but they are not that kind of team. There's one designated leader at Sky, especially for Le Tour. Ask Froome...

And now he's full of talk that he'll wait for no one at Le Tour. Valverde doesn't give a damn about that, he's too experienced rider for that kind of stuff, but Quintana will be nervous because of such statements, as he had showed in his interviews recently. My guess is that Landa, if he continues to make such claims, will not even ride the Tour at all.

 

[HelloDolly]

Here we go again

http://cycling.today/mikel-landa-in-the-tour-i-faced-three-weeks-of-braking-in-the-service-of-froome/

 

[Koronin]

I don't think Landa would be saying so much without at least some backing by the team.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

He's demonstrated plenty, winning stages in Grand Tours, acting as a catalyst in those races. This is an asinine argument. People here laud other past and current riders who never won GTs yet showed similar class on the bike.

Cycling fans are strange. In other sports I follow, this would not elicit this sort of reaction.

You are entitled to your opinion but my argument and opinion are valid and rather than than being ascribed your rude arrogant 'asinine' label

We are talking about winning GTs ...that is what Landa is talking about ...not winning stages ...pointless if you dont even understand the issue under discussion

Plus we are commenting on his 'big' talk when he has not delivered a GT win, yet joined a team where there are leaders who have and still can .....plenty of other sports talk about contenders who have not delivered the big prizes...Andy Murray for instance was talked about for ever until he delivered...Heman also who never delivered ..also plenty of footballers and none make proclamations of how they were going to wait for no one or do their own thing


None of these comment would be made if Landa didnt go around spouting how no one was going to stand in his way ...no one has and he has not gone for it

Limiting the discussion to "has he won a Grand Tour" is what you're on about, not me. When you win multiple stages in the Giro and Tour and on two separate occasions are the strongest rider there and have to be held back by your own team, you get the right to talk...repeatedly...about riding your own race in the future.

Now, signing with Movistar to ride for yourself is a "curious" decision, to say the least, but he's earned that right and if this qualifies as "big talk," I'd hate to see what qualifies as "big talk" across the pond. Geez.

Comparing a cyclist who wins major stages in Grand Tours but not winning the overall to a tennis player not winning a Grand Slam tournament is, again, a poor comparison. Is winning on Alpe d'Huez like winning a less prestigious event on the ATP circuit? Of course not and someone who cannot grasp that or cannot grasp that podium finishes and stage wins are supreme achievements that ought to earn a rider a high stature has "lost the plot," as some of you might say.

Bottom line: the guy was the strongest rider in the 2015 Giro, where he won two stages and finished on the podium and then was the strongest rider in the 2017 Tour and finished fourth. Both times, he had to be held back by his team from dropping everyone. He's a stud and has earned the right to make the comments he's made, mild as they are.

 

[Alexandre B.]

How was he the strongest rider in the Tour 2017? He got a free time gain in stage 13 because he wasn’t a major threat in the general classification, and still managed to lose time in both Alpine stages relative to every podium finisher.

He has only himself to blame for.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

He's demonstrated plenty, winning stages in Grand Tours, acting as a catalyst in those races. This is an asinine argument. People here laud other past and current riders who never won GTs yet showed similar class on the bike.

Cycling fans are strange. In other sports I follow, this would not elicit this sort of reaction.

You are entitled to your opinion but my argument and opinion are valid and rather than than being ascribed your rude arrogant 'asinine' label

We are talking about winning GTs ...that is what Landa is talking about ...not winning stages ...pointless if you dont even understand the issue under discussion

Plus we are commenting on his 'big' talk when he has not delivered a GT win, yet joined a team where there are leaders who have and still can .....plenty of other sports talk about contenders who have not delivered the big prizes...Andy Murray for instance was talked about for ever until he delivered...Heman also who never delivered ..also plenty of footballers and none make proclamations of how they were going to wait for no one or do their own thing


None of these comment would be made if Landa didnt go around spouting how no one was going to stand in his way ...no one has and he has not gone for it

Limiting the discussion to "has he won a Grand Tour" is what you're on about, not me. When you win multiple stages in the Giro and Tour and on two separate occasions are the strongest rider there and have to be held back by your own team, you get the right to talk...repeatedly...about riding your own race in the future.

Now, signing with Movistar to ride for yourself is a "curious" decision, to say the least, but he's earned that right and if this qualifies as "big talk," I'd hate to see what qualifies as "big talk" across the pond. Geez.

Comparing a cyclist who wins major stages in Grand Tours but not winning the overall to a tennis player not winning a Grand Slam tournament is, again, a poor comparison. Is winning on Alpe d'Huez like winning a less prestigious event on the ATP circuit? Of course not and someone who cannot grasp that or cannot grasp that podium finishes and stage wins are supreme achievements that ought to earn a rider a high stature has "lost the plot," as some of you might say.

Bottom line: the guy was the strongest rider in the 2015 Giro, where he won two stages and finished on the podium and then was the strongest rider in the 2017 Tour and finished fourth. Both times, he had to be held back by his team from dropping everyone. He's a stud and has earned the right to make the comments he's made, mild as they are.

Jesus wept :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

Valid point. Landa is talking big all the time yet keeps signing for teams that have leaders who actually have won many big races. It's probably the mental gymnastics he performs to disguise the fact he is too insecure to ride for a team that would give him sole team leadership.

The constant here is he signs for teams with a strong record in grand tours. He’s confident in his abilities and I don’t think he means any disrespect to Valverde or Quintana. Maybe he saw how Valverde was able to reach the podium in the Tour and sees joining Movistar as his best chance based on team strength.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

Valid point. Landa is talking big all the time yet keeps signing for teams that have leaders who actually have won many big races. It's probably the mental gymnastics he performs to disguise the fact he is too insecure to ride for a team that would give him sole team leadership.

The constant here is he signs for teams with a strong record in grand tours. He’s confident in his abilities and I don’t think he means any disrespect to Valverde or Quintana. Maybe he saw how Valverde was able to reach the podium in the Tour and sees joining Movistar as his best chance based on team strength.

Sort of. I agree that it isn’t about disrespect. It’s that there’s a disjuncture every time between his view of his status - which is largely based on the talent he has shown - and the view that prominent teammates and team management tend to take - which is that riders with better palmares have earned seniority. Neither view is obviously insane, but you would think that Landa would have learned by now that teams lean towards the guys who have already brought home the wins and would therefore eventually choose a team or race calendar where he’s the undisputed leader for whatever GT he is primarily targeting. Instead we get this endlessly hilarious soap opera.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Re:

How was he the strongest rider in the Tour 2017? He got a free time gain in stage 13 because he wasn’t a major threat in the general classification, and still managed to lose time in both Alpine stages relative to every podium finisher.

He has only himself to blame for.

Do you watch much cycling? As a domestique, of course he lost time on some stages, on account of the fact that he was pulling for his team leader rather than being tucked in behind others the whole time. That's what was so remarkable: he was working for his team leader yet still finished 4th! None of the others at the top of the GC were in that same boat.

Seriously, how long how have you guys been watching this sport?

 

[Krokro]

Re:

How was he the strongest rider in the Tour 2017? He got a free time gain in stage 13 because he wasn’t a major threat in the general classification, and still managed to lose time in both Alpine stages relative to every podium finisher.

He has only himself to blame for.

Peloton might have let him gain some time on purpose. It doesn't neglect the fact that he was (like Giro 2015) one of the best around. If we take into consideration peloton miscalculations, then we are on for infinite speculations about who could win or being on a podium.. The fact is that he finished 4th just about to be on the TDF podium while being the strongest teammate of the yellow jersey (after Kwiat of course).

People tend to forget who has been in a similar case. Being the best rider of a GT, holding your horsepower and frustration and then having the lead the year after. We all have seen how it turned for CF.

Landa might have a big ego, but IMO the guy has the right to pretend for a leading role. Joining Movistar in that purpose is quite an enigma but still, if they manage to overcome their rivalries he has a great shot at it. Especially if Froomegate keeps going.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

How was he the strongest rider in the Tour 2017? He got a free time gain in stage 13 because he wasn’t a major threat in the general classification, and still managed to lose time in both Alpine stages relative to every podium finisher.

He has only himself to blame for.

Do you watch much cycling? As a domestique, of course he lost time on some stages, on account of the fact that he was pulling for his team leader rather than being tucked in behind others the whole time. That's what was so remarkable: he was working for his team leader yet still finished 4th! None of the others at the top of the GC were in that same boat.

Seriously, how long how have you guys been watching this sport?

Kwiatkowski and Nieve did much of the pulling, as far as I recall (except on the Galibier). After Chambéry, he was three minutes behind his leader without pulling much (if not at all). And he was constantly dropped by the podium finishers on the summit of every last difficulty in the race. Is that being the strongest?

As I said, he lost the podium for a second, and he has only himself to blame for because he lost stupid seconds at the end of stages. The strongest rider in the race wouldn't have lost those seconds.

 

[Krokro]

That's true. But you can't deny the fact that he was at least top5 material while helping and not having a free role. I'm not a fan or sthg, I just like his style and would like to see him doing greater things.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

How was he the strongest rider in the Tour 2017? He got a free time gain in stage 13 because he wasn’t a major threat in the general classification, and still managed to lose time in both Alpine stages relative to every podium finisher.

He has only himself to blame for.

Do you watch much cycling? As a domestique, of course he lost time on some stages, on account of the fact that he was pulling for his team leader rather than being tucked in behind others the whole time. That's what was so remarkable: he was working for his team leader yet still finished 4th! None of the others at the top of the GC were in that same boat.

Seriously, how long how have you guys been watching this sport?

And how long are you watching?

It is highly questionable if he was the strongest rider at that Giro. He certainly looked strong on some stages, but so did Contador, and that ITT was heavily in Contador's favor so I'm not sure who would've been the overall winner. I guess it's 50/50.
At Le Tour, it's even more questionable. He was strong alright, but I didn't saw any proof he was the strongest outright. Although his teammate cost him the podium place. 4th place while not being a protected rider was quite an achievement, but we had similar, or even greater, feats in recent years and I can't remember much talk, or any talk for that matter, how for example Valverde could've won 2015 Tour.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

How was he the strongest rider in the Tour 2017? He got a free time gain in stage 13 because he wasn’t a major threat in the general classification, and still managed to lose time in both Alpine stages relative to every podium finisher.

He has only himself to blame for.

Do you watch much cycling? As a domestique, of course he lost time on some stages, on account of the fact that he was pulling for his team leader rather than being tucked in behind others the whole time. That's what was so remarkable: he was working for his team leader yet still finished 4th! None of the others at the top of the GC were in that same boat.

Seriously, how long how have you guys been watching this sport?

Kwiatkowski and Nieve did much of the pulling, as far as I recall (except on the Galibier). After Chambéry, he was three minutes behind his leader without pulling much (if not at all). And he was constantly dropped by the podium finishers on the summit of every last difficulty in the race. Is that being the strongest?

As I said, he lost the podium for a second, and he has only himself to blame for because he lost stupid seconds at the end of stages. The strongest rider in the race wouldn't have lost those seconds.

I think Froome and his attack on Izoard were main reasons why Landa lost podium

 

[HelloDolly]

Firt of all no one is saying that Landa is not an excellent climber

But a Tour winner is something else

And he was not the strongest in the 2017 Tour...that was Froome followed by Dan Martin (who rode with cracked bones) & Roman Bardet
Landa had the same advantage as most of the top 10 as he did little of the pulling and sat behind the SKY train ...Kwait and Nieve did that
At 2015 Giro the strongest was Contador

Being able to climb well does not make you the strongest ....you must be able to win a GT ...and that is mental fortitude as well as physical
You must also be consistent ...day in and day out and take the pressure

And so far Landa has not proved this to anyone ...nor has his TT been great

Of course he can improve but so can a whole host of riders like Pinot, Bardet Soler, Barguil, Zakarin, etc

Landa's boasts are premature and ridiculous

Deliver a GT then talk

 

[HelloDolly]

As for finishing high as a team mate we have seen several examples of that in recent years

Kreuziger was 5th (and could have been higher) at the 2013 Tour while burying himself for Contador
Tejay was 4th at the 2012 Tour while working for Cadel Evans
Valverde 3rd riding for Quntana at 2015 Tour
Frank Schleck 3rd riding for Andy at 2011 Tour


Being on or near the podium while riding for another is nothig new but it certainly does not herald a GT winner
Afterall you are unmarked and do not carry the responsibility of leadership.. you can attack at times without being chased or gains seconds ..high places are common in these circumstances if a rider is in top form

 

[portugal11]

people tend to forget that contador had a nasty crash in stage 6 of the giro. without that crash, he would be able to destroy everyone in the mountains. Just look to abetone, only porte (who is the only rider to follow froome frequently) and aru (with the help of porte) could follow him and abetone is not that hard. Landa, only gained time on madonna di campiglio because of aru and that insane astana team. landa can't drop contador if it wasn't aru to limit contador's movements. the only stage where landa was stronger than contador, was finestre. in corvinia, landa tried to drop contador 2 or 3 times and he can't!! After that, aru attacked and gained 1 minute.
But I still think landa will be the best of movistar despite his 0 gt's against 2 gt's from quintana. Quintana will not improve and landa is getting better and better

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Firt of all no one is saying that Landa is not an excellent climber

But a Tour winner is something else

And he was not the strongest in the 2017 Tour...that was Froome followed by Dan Martin (who rode with cracked bones) & Roman Bardet
Landa had the same advantage as most of the top 10 as he did little of the pulling and sat behind the SKY train ...Kwait and Nieve did that
At 2015 Giro the strongest was Contador

Being able to climb well does not make you the strongest ....you must be able to win a GT ...and that is mental fortitude as well as physical
You must also be consistent ...day in and day out and take the pressure

And so far Landa has not proved this to anyone ...nor has his TT been great

Of course he can improve but so can a whole host of riders like Pinot, Bardet Soler, Barguil, Zakarin, etc

Landa's boasts are premature and ridiculous

Deliver a GT then talk

I actually think it was Uran, but he hadn't got the b**** to attack!

 

[Krokro]

Re:

But I still think landa will be the best of movistar despite his 0 gt's against 2 gt's from quintana. Quintana will not improve and landa is getting better and better

Agreed 100% with this. But I might have a cognitive bias (I've never really liked Quintana). Don't entirely bury the good ol' Valverde tho. His 2017 was remarkable regarding his age.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Firt of all no one is saying that Landa is not an excellent climber

But a Tour winner is something else

And he was not the strongest in the 2017 Tour...that was Froome followed by Dan Martin (who rode with cracked bones) & Roman Bardet
Landa had the same advantage as most of the top 10 as he did little of the pulling and sat behind the SKY train ...Kwait and Nieve did that
At 2015 Giro the strongest was Contador

Being able to climb well does not make you the strongest ....you must be able to win a GT ...and that is mental fortitude as well as physical
You must also be consistent ...day in and day out and take the pressure

And so far Landa has not proved this to anyone ...nor has his TT been great

Of course he can improve but so can a whole host of riders like Pinot, Bardet Soler, Barguil, Zakarin, etc

Landa's boasts are premature and ridiculous

Deliver a GT then talk

I actually think it was Uran, but he hadn't got the b**** to attack!

You are probably right ...hard to tell
I put in Martin becasue he got up from that crash and attacked every day
Bardet because he attacked Froome on every downhill

Strongest is not just physical ...Uran and Quintana not attacking is a wekaness that takes away from the label of strongest


It is possible that this years Tour will be a fight of the psychologically flawed (as I see them)

Quintana v Porte v Landa v Uran v Pinot

Without Froome, Contador or Dumoulin

At least Nibali will attack .....The shark could be up for Tour 2
And Dan Martin who gets no credit is a fighter but like Bardet cannot win with that TT

 

[Netserk]

He has proved himself more in GTs than Porte has, yet the latter has a team build around him and is considered one of the favorites to win the Tour.