Milan - San Remo 2018

[tomorrow]

Wow, everything went perfect for nibali, but what a performance. Dream come true.

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Well, to be honest, nobody expected this could get real. No even riders and ds of the teams. They all thougt it would be just another vincenzo´s attack, just like in the past. Also, nobody expected it in that place, that´s why it took so long to organize the chase and it caused such a panic.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Nibali has 4 GTs currently, 10 Grand Tour podiums.

Koronin is living in the future of a banned froome

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Just Imagine if he hadn't fallen
in that dark wet leaf covered downhill
at Rio.

This one reminded me a little of his Sheffield TdF
surprise winning attack.

 

[delgado]

you'd think Colbrelli could at least muster a smile, crossing the line... BahrainM plan gone wrong, maybe?

The hugs and smiles after the finish line do not suggest anything you are suggesting.

look at the birds eye replay from the chasing bunch crossing the line, Colbrelli passes the jubilating Nibali and does not even glance his way. Also I did not make him out among the first huggers. Anyways, no blame, it's not like he beat his handlebars

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYg1FLKXcAEH5ZW.jpg

and that's the piece to shut me up

 

[Anderis]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Gilbert imo, but that's pretty much it.

Not Gilbert...zero GT credentials. Only Valverde. Nibali is clearly above Don Alejandro on the GT side, and with this win, we can argue that he's just as good in one-day races.

I don't think you can argue that Nibali is as good in one day races as Valverde based on the numbers.

How many other wins or podiums in one day races does Nibali have besides the 1 podium at Liege, the 2 Lombardia wins and now on win at MSR? Compared to Valverdes 4 Liege wins, 5 Fleche Wallone wins (included in that is 3 Ardennes doubles), 3 Murcia wins (that is just for it as a one day race, 2 wins as a stage race), a couple of podiums at Amstel Gold, 6 Worlds podiums, podium at Strade Bianche, 2nd place twice at Lombardia.

Since you are going to include Nibali's 1 2nd place at Liege you then MUST also include Valverde's 2 2nd places at Lombardia.

Well, I see your point. Valverde is definetely better when it comes to classics for punchy climbers but he has never won anything important outside of that niche. Nibali now has (I think we can count MSR as that kind of race, it hadn't been won by a rider of this type for years before 2018), so I think that makes him kind of... more complete. At least when it comes to palmares.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I've also have no problem saying Contador was a better Grand Tour rider than Valverde.

Praise the Lord! :lol:

 

[LaFlorecita]

I don't think you can argue Nibali is as good as Valverde in one-day races, Valverde will always have the edge there thanks to his punch. But Nibali is ahead in GTs and as a HC climber so I'd say they are equals in terms of allround ability.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

Just Imagine if he had fallen
in that dark wet leaf covered downhill
at Rio.

This one reminded me a little of his Sheffield TdF
surprise winning attack.

You mean hadn't fallen, right? From what I recall he did fall.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Well, to be honest, nobody expected this could get real. No even riders and ds of the teams. They all thougt it would be just another vincenzo´s attack, just like in the past. Also, nobody expected it in that place, that´s why it took so long to organize the chase and it caused such a panic.

Nibali himself explained how things went. It was not planned. It sort of happened.
When he followed the Latvian Champion's wheels he was not planning an attack, but was actually working for Colbrelli, as a stopper. To control the race. That's why, when the Latvian asked him to take a turn at the front, he didn't do it straight away. He kinda paused and looked back to see where the peloton was. When he realised they actually had got a good gap, decided why not... let's give it a go. Went to the front and started pushing hard. Then the climb got to the steepest bit and he just flew away. At that point it was just full gas, no looking back, 100% commitment.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Well, to be honest, nobody expected this could get real. No even riders and ds of the teams. They all thougt it would be just another vincenzo´s attack, just like in the past. Also, nobody expected it in that place, that´s why it took so long to organize the chase and it caused such a panic.

Nibali himself explained how things went. It was not planned. It sort of happened.
When he followed the Latvian Champion's wheels he was not planning an attack, but was actually working for Colbrelli, as a stopper. To control the race. That's why, when the Latvian asked him to take a turn at the front, he didn't do it straight away. He kinda paused and looked back to see where the peloton was. When he realised they actually had got a good gap, decided why not... let's give it a go. Went to the front and started pushing hard. Then the climb got to the steepest bit and he just flew away. At that point it was just full gas, no looking back, 100% commitment.

This by the way illustrates why Nibali wins races others do not (besides his physical talent) - he has the ability to improvize and to capitzalize on an opportunity. I'd bet 95% of other riders would've just continued to follow order, getting caught sitting in the wheel for their sprinter to become 5th.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re: Re:

Just Imagine if he had fallen
in that dark wet leaf covered downhill
at Rio.

This one reminded me a little of his Sheffield TdF
surprise winning attack.

You mean hadn't fallen, right? From what I recall he did fall.

Oops
thanks for the correction RD

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Gilbert imo, but that's pretty much it.

Gilbert? Laughable.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won both cobbled and hilly classics.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won Paris-Tours and the Giro di Lombardia (in the same season no less).

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won 3 different Monuments and has podium places in four of them.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won a freaking Monument with a 60km solo.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won the Amstel Gold Race four times on 3 different courses.

Not to mention that he has won stages in all three Grand Tours, even including a mountain stage in the Giro.

I'm waiting.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Well, to be honest, nobody expected this could get real. No even riders and ds of the teams. They all thougt it would be just another vincenzo´s attack, just like in the past. Also, nobody expected it in that place, that´s why it took so long to organize the chase and it caused such a panic.

Nibali himself explained how things went. It was not planned. It sort of happened.
When he followed the Latvian Champion's wheels he was not planning an attack, but was actually working for Colbrelli, as a stopper. To control the race. That's why, when the Latvian asked him to take a turn at the front, he didn't do it straight away. He kinda paused and looked back to see where the peloton was. When he realised they actually had got a good gap, decided why not... let's give it a go. Went to the front and started pushing hard. Then the climb got to the steepest bit and he just flew away. At that point it was just full gas, no looking back, 100% commitment.

This by the way illustrates why Nibali wins races others do not (besides his physical talent) - he has the ability to improvize and to capitzalize on an opportunity. I'd bet 95% of other riders would've just continued to follow order, getting caught sitting in the wheel for their sprinter to become 5th.

Just to be clear, also because I've read a few complaining about him,it's not like he did not follow the team orders. He and Colbrelli were co-leaders yesterday. Colbrelli for a sprint and he for attacks from the Cipressa or the Poggio. It basically depended on how the race would go, seizing whatever opportunity would come along the road.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Gilbert imo, but that's pretty much it.

Gilbert? Laughable.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won both cobbled and hilly classics.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won Paris-Tours and the Giro di Lombardia (in the same season no less).

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won 3 different Monuments and has podium places in four of them.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won a freaking Monument with a 60km solo.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won the Amstel Gold Race four times on 3 different courses.

Not to mention that he has won stages in all three Grand Tours, even including a mountain stage in the Giro.

I'm waiting.

What are we talking about?
Comparing Gilbert to Nibali as a Classics rider? Are we serious?
They are not even in the same league.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Gilbert imo, but that's pretty much it.

Gilbert? Laughable.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won both cobbled and hilly classics.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won Paris-Tours and the Giro di Lombardia (in the same season no less).

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won 3 different Monuments and has podium places in four of them.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won a freaking Monument with a 60km solo.

Tell me of another rider in the current peloton that won the Amstel Gold Race four times on 3 different courses.

Not to mention that he has won stages in all three Grand Tours, even including a mountain stage in the Giro.

I'm waiting.

What are we talking about?
Comparing Gilbert to Nibali as a Classics rider? Are we serious?
They are not even in the same league.

We are talking about two cyclists that have a more varied palmares than the rest.

Do keep up will you.

 

[huge]

My dear friend, those were retoric questions that did not need an answer.

How is Gilbert palmares varied? Tell me about all the GT Gilbert has won? Or the many one week stage races he has won perhaps?
Comparing Gilbert's and Nibali's palmares is meaningless.
Gilbert's palmares is not varied at all. But he still remains one of the greatest Classics rider of all times.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Gilbert imo, but that's pretty much it.

Not Gilbert...zero GT credentials. Only Valverde. Nibali is clearly above Don Alejandro on the GT side, and with this win, we can argue that he's just as good in one-day races.

5x FW, 2x San Sebastian and 6x WC medals screams he's not as good.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

My dear friend, those were retoric questions that did not need an answer.

How is Gilbert palmares varied? Tell me about all the GT Gilbert has won? Or the many one week stage races he has won perhaps?
Comparing Gilbert's and Nibali's palmares is meaningless.
Gilbert's palmares is not varied at all. But he still remains one of the greatest Classics rider of all times.

Look at my post above instead of asking redundant questions.

There's more to cycling than stage races, but to answer your question he won Paris–Corrèze, the Tour of Belgium, Ster ZLM Toer (3 times), Tour of Beijing and the Driedaagse de Panne. He was also second in the Eneco Tour in 2011.

The 3 GTs are also a lot more alike than the 5 Monuments. It's far easier to win all 3 GTs than it is to win all the Monuments (or even just 3 of them).

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

My dear friend, those were retoric questions that did not need an answer.

How is Gilbert palmares varied? Tell me about all the GT Gilbert has won? Or the many one week stage races he has won perhaps?
Comparing Gilbert's and Nibali's palmares is meaningless.
Gilbert's palmares is not varied at all. But he still remains one of the greatest Classics rider of all times.

Look at my post above instead of asking redundant questions.

There's more to cycling than stage races, but to answer your question he won Paris–Corrèze, the Tour of Belgium, Ster ZLM Toer (3 times), Tour of Beijing and the Driedaagse de Panne. He was also second in the Eneco Tour in 2011.

The 3 GTs are also a lot more alike than the 5 Monuments. It's far easier to win all 3 GTs than it is to win all the Monuments (or even just 3 of them).

Wow, we are really talking about big stuff here... Tour of Belgium? Really? Come on!! Let's try and be serious here. Or pehaps on Nibali's side we should include Larciano 2007 as a great result and proof he is a superb 1 day racer, just to keep at the same level.
Gilbert is one of the greatest one day racers of all times... who, by the way, hasn't won all 5 monuments yet! But he sucks in stage races. There is no much more to say. I think you are the only one that sees variety in Gilbert's palmares. Unless you define as variety having won different races. Then his palmares is very varied.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Gilbert imo, but that's pretty much it.

Not Gilbert...zero GT credentials. Only Valverde. Nibali is clearly above Don Alejandro on the GT side, and with this win, we can argue that he's just as good in one-day races.

5x FW, 2x San Sebastian and 6x WC medals screams he's not as good.

He is more versatile though. Valverde's main attribute is also his biggest hindrance: his sprint. He becomes far too conservative for his own good because of it, and doesn't attack when it is the best thing to do, so is stuck winning only races in which the race is pre-determined (barring unlikely events) to finish with a smallish group sprinting preferably uphill for 300m. There are exceptions (Liege 2008, San Sebastian 2014 and Firenze 2013) but that tends to be his problem imo. Which is why perhaps he'll struggle to win MSR, because he needs a smallish group and that without le manie is unlikely to happen; meanwhile for Lombardia, with the Como finish he has a great chance but it seems to be Nibali's playground, whilst the Bergamo finish suits an attack from 40km which I'm not sure bala will go for. He might follow it, and I think he'll have to if he wants to win this year.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

My dear friend, those were retoric questions that did not need an answer.

How is Gilbert palmares varied? Tell me about all the GT Gilbert has won? Or the many one week stage races he has won perhaps?
Comparing Gilbert's and Nibali's palmares is meaningless.
Gilbert's palmares is not varied at all. But he still remains one of the greatest Classics rider of all times.

Look at my post above instead of asking redundant questions.

There's more to cycling than stage races, but to answer your question he won Paris–Corrèze, the Tour of Belgium, Ster ZLM Toer (3 times), Tour of Beijing and the Driedaagse de Panne. He was also second in the Eneco Tour in 2011.

The 3 GTs are also a lot more alike than the 5 Monuments. It's far easier to win all 3 GTs than it is to win all the Monuments (or even just 3 of them).

Wow, we are really talking about big stuff here... Tour of Belgium? Really? Come on!! Let's try and be serious here. Or pehaps on Nibali's side we should include Larciano 2007 as a great result and proof he is a superb 1 day racer, just to keep at the same level.
Gilbert is one of the greatest one day racers of all times... who, by the way, hasn't won all 5 monuments yet! But he sucks in stage races. There is no much more to say. I think you are the only one that sees variety in Gilbert's palmares. Unless you define as variety having won different races. Then his palmares is very varied.

I think you know very little of cycling.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

My dear friend, those were retoric questions that did not need an answer.

How is Gilbert palmares varied? Tell me about all the GT Gilbert has won? Or the many one week stage races he has won perhaps?
Comparing Gilbert's and Nibali's palmares is meaningless.
Gilbert's palmares is not varied at all. But he still remains one of the greatest Classics rider of all times.

Look at my post above instead of asking redundant questions.

There's more to cycling than stage races, but to answer your question he won Paris–Corrèze, the Tour of Belgium, Ster ZLM Toer (3 times), Tour of Beijing and the Driedaagse de Panne. He was also second in the Eneco Tour in 2011.

The 3 GTs are also a lot more alike than the 5 Monuments. It's far easier to win all 3 GTs than it is to win all the Monuments (or even just 3 of them).

How did you come to this conclusion? There are 25 riders who have won at least three different monuments (24 if we discount Pélissier as his wins were before the Vuelta was raced the first time) and six riders who have won all three GT's.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Nibali wasn't even a poll option. We totally failed again.

What a rider man, Lombardia x2, all GT's, San Remo and 2nd in LBL. There is nobody as complete.

Gilbert imo, but that's pretty much it.

Not Gilbert...zero GT credentials. Only Valverde. Nibali is clearly above Don Alejandro on the GT side, and with this win, we can argue that he's just as good in one-day races.

5x FW, 2x San Sebastian and 6x WC medals screams he's not as good.

This is possibly the most important point of Valverde's one day race palmares. Many medals, but one color is missing. Cycling has always been a sport which is about winning. 2nd and 3rd places are nice, but it's not like a win is worth twice as much as a 2nd place, it's rather worth ten times as much. Take someone like Tom Boonen for example. He has a great palmares and in his last full season won a bronze medal in the WC RR. Still after his retirement I haven't heard one single person mentioning that medal, because a third place is a side note when you have such a great palmares.
The only reason why Valverde's endless podiums get mentioned so often is because he has never won that race. As soon as Valverde gets to wear the rainbow stripes the fact that he was on the podium of the WC often before suddenly becomes a side note and would never be used again in palmares comparisons. For the same reason Nibali would be the more successful rider in world championships if he wins it this year.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

My dear friend, those were retoric questions that did not need an answer.

How is Gilbert palmares varied? Tell me about all the GT Gilbert has won? Or the many one week stage races he has won perhaps?
Comparing Gilbert's and Nibali's palmares is meaningless.
Gilbert's palmares is not varied at all. But he still remains one of the greatest Classics rider of all times.

Look at my post above instead of asking redundant questions.

There's more to cycling than stage races, but to answer your question he won Paris–Corrèze, the Tour of Belgium, Ster ZLM Toer (3 times), Tour of Beijing and the Driedaagse de Panne. He was also second in the Eneco Tour in 2011.

The 3 GTs are also a lot more alike than the 5 Monuments. It's far easier to win all 3 GTs than it is to win all the Monuments (or even just 3 of them).

Wow, we are really talking about big stuff here... Tour of Belgium? Really? Come on!! Let's try and be serious here. Or pehaps on Nibali's side we should include Larciano 2007 as a great result and proof he is a superb 1 day racer, just to keep at the same level.
Gilbert is one of the greatest one day racers of all times... who, by the way, hasn't won all 5 monuments yet! But he sucks in stage races. There is no much more to say. I think you are the only one that sees variety in Gilbert's palmares. Unless you define as variety having won different races. Then his palmares is very varied.

I think you know very little of cycling.

If you say so.