Mixed Martial Arts

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The big loser on the night was Dana White. Holm-Rousey II probably would have sold close to 2 million PPVs. Tate-Rousey III will be punching above weight if it does half that.

But Tate exposed Holm's lacklustre ground game. She defended poorly on the second round take-down (turned into Tate, giving up her neck in the doing) and was lucky to escape. If R3 had played her trump card instead of fighting Holm on her feet, I don't think Holm would have had an answer. Her striking attack isn't effective if the opponent doesn't keep challenging it, and I don't think there's a woman on the planet who can withstand R3's arm bar (something Tate knows full well, because she's certainly never learnt the knack of it).


And I think McGregor fought a silly fight (as if there was anything rational about moving up two weight classes for a single fight). His plan wasn't to defeat Diaz, it was to fulfill his prophecy of a first-round knock-out. He threw between 69 and 78 punches in the first round (depending on who's counting). Every one of them with bad intentions but more than half hit nothing but air. He's never been to the fourth round in a professional fight, and I suspect Diaz would have had his way with him, if it had lasted that long.

In the end it was his failure to respect Diaz's punching ability that did him in. Every time Nate tagged him, he'd use the schoolyard defence -- "That didn't hurt" -- and proceed to walk right back into them, hands down. By the mid-point of the 2nd, Diaz found his range and regularly was making McGregor see stars. Nate lit him up several times before the clench against the cage, two or three more times during the clench, and a couple more after. At which point McGregor somehow came by the idea that that was the opportune moment to test Diaz's ground game.

::facepalm::


But wait, there's more. Just like the opera isn't over until the fat lady sings, no Diaz brothers fight is over until the drug test results come back.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Jspear said:
gooner said:
jmdirt said:
Mayomaniac said:
jmdirt said:
Tate is the new CHAMP!

I can not believe that Diaz beat McG! I guess that is just too much of a weight jump.
Diaz is also a lightweight who was fighting at WW.
The Iriish clown got his ass whooped, what a wonderful day!
Diaz walks around at 180, McG at 165 (160 on Feb. 1). As he admitted, fighting a bigger man makes a different fight, plus carrying extra pounds made him a different fighter.

I like seeing him lose too because hopefully it will make him hungry again. Love him or hate him, he is an exciting fighter. He didn't get his ass whooped though, he was winning the fight and got caught...one of the many things I like about combat sports.

I don't think people have issues with his skill set, it's his own persona. He was going too far. Mocking dos Anjos' children and the names they had, death threats, how he was going to send Aldo back to the favela and that three people died making his diamond watch. It's disgraceful talk. That is not sport.

His behaviour has a direct influence on his following. You only have to look at the conduct of some of the fans up in Dublin last year for the press conference promoting the Aldo fight. Many MMA journalists weren't happy with what they saw at the time.

This exactly.

I haven't watched the post fight press conference yet. It'll be interesting to see what his demeanor is like.

Last week he put up a tweet about himself being the first Irish sportsperson on the front cover of Sports Illustrated. Totally false(Ronnie Delaney and Eamon Coughlan) with no regard for the achievements from the great Irish sports people before him. Not even an apology for it.
 
My neighbor just made a good point: there isn't another MMA fighter that would take a fight at, let alone above, his walking weight.

RE: C McG's mouth: if he would leave the "eat your kids" Mike Tyson, taking it too far stuff out, its actually an entertaining art form.

Styr, I was surprised that Diaz brought up steroids in one of the media events considering his family/team history.

gooner, I loved watching Coghlan run! He owned the Garden!
 
Mar 25, 2013
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jmdirt said:
My neighbor just made a good point: there isn't another MMA fighter that would take a fight at, let alone above, his walking weight.

RE: C McG's mouth: if he would leave the "eat your kids" Mike Tyson, taking it too far stuff out, its actually an entertaining art form.

Agree. I don't mind when he says "we're not here to take part, we're here to takeover" or "I pick the round and the minute" bravado talk. There's a line he sometimes crosses and he leaves himself down badly. Siver was another fighter he said one or two crass things to.

Styr, I was surprised that Diaz brought up steroids in one of the media events considering his family/team history.

That was strange alright and in the aftermath, only one doping related question came from the media after he accused everyone in the UFC and McGregor

gooner, I loved watching Coghlan run! He owned the Garden!

And even after all these years I still spell his surname with a u. :eek: :)
 
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StyrbjornSterki said:
And I think McGregor fought a silly fight (as if there was anything rational about moving up two weight classes for a single fight). His plan wasn't to defeat Diaz, it was to fulfill his prophecy of a first-round knock-out. He threw between 69 and 78 punches in the first round (depending on who's counting). Every one of them with bad intentions but more than half hit nothing but air. He's never been to the fourth round in a professional fight, and I suspect Diaz would have had his way with him, if it had lasted that long.

Don't think his plan of trying to win it early on was silly. Diaz always has had great stamina and did lots of cardio training for his ironman. Diaz would always start to get the upperhand in the latter rounds so I understand why Mcgregor went for it early on.
 
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Billie said:
Don't think his plan of trying to win it early on was silly. Diaz always has had great stamina and did lots of cardio training for his ironman. Diaz would always start to get the upperhand in the latter rounds so I understand why Mcgregor went for it early on.
Entering the arena for any professional sporting contest unprepared to go the distance is silly. Even moreso in this case because both of the Diaz brother are "rubber men." Their careers are based on their ability to absorb more punishment than their opponents can. Prior to the McGregor fight, Nate had had 28 professional MMA fights with just a single loss to striking. Brother Nick hasn't lost to striking in more than eight years. Risking the outcome of a fight against either Diaz brother on a plan to knock them out in the first round is planning to lose.

Also, I don't think McGregor covered up the entire fight. Not once. Most punches he attempted to slip rather than block, but covering up doesn't appear to be in his repertoire. Diaz, OTOH, takes no shame in covering up and letting his opponent beat against his arms. He doesn't fight to exhibit his bravado, he fights to be the last man standing.

By the second round, McGregor was dispirited and tiring, both because he had hit Diaz as hard as he'd ever hit any man and it didn't phase him (fair punching himself out in the process), and in return, Diaz was getting in some ferocious body shots. By the 2nd, Diaz's punches were regularly snapping McGregor's head back, but the only result McGregor saw from his own head shots was still more blood.

In the end, I think McGregor decided it was better to lose by submission than to striking, so he went for a very dodgy take-down, with predictable consequences. He tapped roughly one second after Nate cinched the rear naked choke.
 
I'm not one who plays 'what if' in sports, its useless because it never happened (what if SEA would have given the ball to Lynch, what if Cam would have tried to grab the fumble...). BUT, I can't help but wonder what the fight would have been like if it was at 160 instead of 170.

McG did seem to tap pretty quickly.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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So much for this quote from McGregor last year.

Cc2C_PrXEAAJ_NR.jpg
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
...The other option is to toss Nunes to Rousey, as UFC already knows a Tate-Holm rematch would likely be good. If Ronda loses to Nunes, she retires to acting, and Nunes is a legit rising star worthy of a marquee title shot against a Tate-Holm winner....
On the one hand, Dana has said Rousey won't return until October at earliest, maybe November. Both for his organisation and for a fighter, from now until even just October is a long time to ask a champion to sit idle. I don't know how long he has been aware of R3's plans but knowledge of so long a break certainly would explain why he gave Tate this shot rather than waiting on R3 to return for the rematch with Holm.

But he's also repeatedly said he's okay with Rousey taking this time away because, to paraphrase White, she is deserving some time off owing to repeatedly extending herself for the benefit of the UFC. 'She's always been there for us,' or words to that effect. I don't know what specifically he is referring to, because IIRC she has yet to take a short-notice fight, or even had a late-notice change of opponent, which leaves me thinking all this "being there" was extending herself in her promotions of the organisation (and, indirectly, herself).

To those fighters he smiles upon, Dana does show a commendable sense of loyalty (even if the roots of that loyalty sometimes is murky), so I know he would prefer to give R3 the next shot at Tate. But it would be a disservice to Holm, a newly-deposed champ with a 10-1 UFC record, to ask her to fight next against anyone apart from Tate or R3, which means Tate waiting for R3 to return necessarily would mean Holm waiting longer still to fight the winner of that contest.

So Holm's loss has really upset Dana's (and Joe Silva's) apple cart. I gather there have been multiple delays to Rousey's filming schedule, and seven months out is too far to reliably predict whether she will be done with the filming by then, so if I were betting, I would bet Tate-Holm II will happen before R3's return.

But I seriously doubt Dana is considering anything outside that bénage à trois.
 
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jmdirt said:
I'm not one who plays 'what if' in sports, its useless because it never happened (what if SEA would have given the ball to Lynch, what if Cam would have tried to grab the fumble...). BUT, I can't help but wonder what the fight would have been like if it was at 160 instead of 170....
McGregor has downplayed that aspect but I am agreed. They were one pound apart at the weigh-in but Diaz was a solid ten pounds heaver at the opening bell. He is far from a knock-out artist but allowing a ten-pounds heavier man repeatedly to beat you about the head and shoulders has a greater impact than a lighter man of (proportionally) the same punching power. And expending so little effort to blocking the punches of a substantially larger man is just daft apath.
 
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StyrbjornSterki said:
Alpe d'Huez said:
...The other option is to toss Nunes to Rousey, as UFC already knows a Tate-Holm rematch would likely be good. If Ronda loses to Nunes, she retires to acting, and Nunes is a legit rising star worthy of a marquee title shot against a Tate-Holm winner....
On the one hand, Dana has said Rousey won't return until October at earliest, maybe November. Both for his organisation and for a fighter, from now until even just October is a long time to ask a champion to sit idle. I don't know how long he has been aware of R3's plans but knowledge of so long a break certainly would explain why he gave Tate this shot rather than waiting on R3 to return for the rematch with Holm.

But he's also repeatedly said he's okay with Rousey taking this time away because, to paraphrase White, she is deserving some time off owing to repeatedly extending herself for the benefit of the UFC. 'She's always been there for us,' or words to that effect. I don't know what specifically he is referring to, because IIRC she has yet to take a short-notice fight, or even had a late-notice change of opponent, which leaves me thinking all this "being there" was extending herself in her promotions of the organisation (and, indirectly, herself).

To those fighters he smiles upon, Dana does show a commendable sense of loyalty (even if the roots of that loyalty sometimes is murky), so I know he would prefer to give R3 the next shot at Tate. But it would be a disservice to Holm, a newly-deposed champ with a 10-1 UFC record, to ask her to fight next against anyone apart from Tate or R3, which means Tate waiting for R3 to return necessarily would mean Holm waiting longer still to fight the winner of that contest.

So Holm's loss has really upset Dana's (and Joe Silva's) apple cart. I gather there have been multiple delays to Rousey's filming schedule, and seven months out is too far to reliably predict whether she will be done with the filming by then, so if I were betting, I would bet Tate-Holm II will happen before R3's return.

But I seriously doubt Dana is considering anything outside that bénage à trois.
Why is HH any more deserving of a title shot than RR?
 
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jmdirt said:
Why is HH any more deserving of a title shot than RR?
I didn't say she was more deserving. Comes to it, Tate didn't "deserve" the fight with Holm; not before R3 got her rematch. But bidness is bidness. Dana has to keep the circus moving, fighters need to be allowed to exercise their profession, and Rousey was going to be too long in La-La land. Unless she asks for it, it would be disloyal of him to require that Holm fight anyone next apart from Tate, or, time permitting, the winner of Tate-Rousey III. But if R3's return to the UFC is further delayed, or if Dana senses that that is likely, business pressures could compel him to schedule Tate-Holm II first.
 
If you fancy a little carnival with your fighting, you won't want to miss UR Fight's 20 March line-up, a PPV with five main events. They've got boxing, they've got grappling, they've got 'MMA' and they've even got a "profesional wrestling" match on the card. Including some very high-profile pugilists (even if the MMA competitors -- Tank Abbott and Dan Severn, -- do have 107 years between them), and at least one rather substantial winner-take-all purse of $100,000 USD.

You had to know Bellator's "Battle of the Dinosaurs" fights were drawing too big not to inspire imitators.
 
Ah, Tank Abbott! One of my all time favorites. In the "brutal" category, I think that only Wanderlei surpasses the Tank. Too old now, and years of partying have taken a toll. His cardio (which was never that great) is long gone.
 
May 14, 2010
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I've followed the career and each of the fights of Ronda Rousey from the beginning, and I absolutely could not make sense of her fight against Holly Holm. The person in the ring with Holm that night was not the fighter we were used to seeing. Not even close.

People said, oh, well, that's because R3 had only ever fought mugs before - women's UFC has no strength in depth and until now R3 was the outlier. Once she met a real fighter with real skills (Holm) she was exposed for the fraud / one trick pony she is. I never bought that. Rousey's training, conditioning, warrior spirit, and real fighting skills were plain to see. Developing all that and building on it is pretty much the only thing she's done her entire life, and she's worked hard to add to her skill set since entering MMA. So how then to account for her performance against Holm?

Before that fight she said that when it was over she was going away for a long time. Coming into the ring that night she looked depressed and resigned. Almost as soon as the fight began she looked lost, and boxed like a total amateur. A beginning, unskilled amateur. By the time she finally got flattened it was no surprise - or wouldn't have been, had her name not been Ronda Rousey.

Given that her coach sent her into the fight with, seemingly, no fight plan, and given as well that he made no attempt to adjust her strategy between rounds, the only logical thing for her to have done after the loss was to take her mother's advice and find a different coach. But Rousey refused to do this.

Taking all this into account, and knowing the history of match-fixing in professional combat sports, the only conclusion I could come to is that she had thrown the fight. After all, there are many millions more to be made in the buildup to real competition than there is in a steady procession of quick, decisive wins. And Holm's recent loss to one of the supposed "mugs" Rousey had handled more than once without too much problem - namely, Tate - only confirmed this idea.

But I now think this is wrong. I saw an interview Rousey did after her defeat, where she explained that in the first exchange with Holm she'd got hit with a punch that loosened her teeth and had her out on her feet. She lost all sense of depth perception and of her position in space. This condition continued until the final knockout.

That seems like the simplest explanation, and accords with all the facts. Seeing how well Miesha Tate handled Holm, I think Rousey will come back and beat both of them. I'd be truly surprised if she didn't.
 
Re:

Maxiton said:
I've followed the career and each of the fights of Ronda Rousey from the beginning, and I absolutely could not make sense of her fight against Holly Holm. The person in the ring with Holm that night was not the fighter we were used to seeing. Not even close.

People said, oh, well, that's because R3 had only ever fought mugs before - women's UFC has no strength in depth and until now R3 was the outlier. Once she met a real fighter with real skills (Holm) she was exposed for the fraud / one trick pony she is. I never bought that. Rousey's training, conditioning, warrior spirit, and real fighting skills were plain to see. Developing all that and building on it is pretty much the only thing she's done her entire life, and she's worked hard to add to her skill set since entering MMA. So how then to account for her performance against Holm?

Before that fight she said that when it was over she was going away for a long time. Coming into the ring that night she looked depressed and resigned. Almost as soon as the fight began she looked lost, and boxed like a total amateur. A beginning, unskilled amateur. By the time she finally got flattened it was no surprise - or wouldn't have been, had her name not been Ronda Rousey.

Given that her coach sent her into he fight, seemingly, with no fight plan, and given as well that he made no attempt to adjust her strategy between rounds, the only logical thing for her to have done after the loss was to take her mother's advice and find a different coach. But Rousey refused to do this.

Taking all this into account, and knowing the history of match-fixing in professional combat sports, the only conclusion I could come to is that she had thrown the fight. After all, there are many millions more to be made in the buildup to real competition than there is in a steady procession of quick, decisive wins. And Holm's recent loss to one of the supposed "mugs" Rousey had handled more than once without too much problem - namely, Tate - only confirmed this idea.

But I now think this is wrong. I saw an interview Rousey did after her defeat, where she explained that in the first exchange with Holm she'd got hit with a punch that loosened her teeth and had her out on her feet. She lost all sense of depth perception and of her position in space. This condition continued until the final knockout.

That seems like the simplest explanation, and accords with all the facts. Seeing how well Miesha Tate handled Holm, I think Rousey will come back and beat both of them. I'd be truly surprised if she didn't.
I think that RR was stretched way to thin with her crazy schedule, and wasn't ready like she usually was. She also wanted to show that she could win in a different way (which is a bad idea in IMO). Plus, as you said, she got rocked early. over scheduled + not fully prepared (mentally or physically) + new fight plan on short turn-around + getting rocked = LOSS. No fix IMO. IMO Tate is no mug. I agree that RR can come back and beat both Tate and Holm.
 
May 14, 2010
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jmdirt said:
I think that RR was stretched way to thin with her crazy schedule, and wasn't ready like she usually was. She also wanted to show that she could win in a different way (which is a bad idea in IMO). Plus, as you said, she got rocked early. over scheduled + not fully prepared (mentally or physically) + new fight plan on short turn-around + getting rocked = LOSS. No fix IMO. IMO Tate is no mug. I agree that RR can come back and beat both Tate and Holm.

Yep, I agree that she was over-stretched and under-prepared, and I like your formula, over scheduled + not fully prepared (mentally or physically) + new fight plan on short turn-around + getting rocked = LOSS. I also agree that Tate is no mug. So it looks like we agree all the way around then.

I hope when Rousey comes back to meet Holm she isn't over-trained. That could happen, and is probably the only thing that could lead to a second loss. That, and letting Holm get into her head. We'll see.
 
R3's manager says Holm tagged her in the first and never recovered. Even if that's true, that only could be possible if her coach failed to adequately train her to stay well away from the punching power of a woman with nearly 40 prizefights and several boxing titles to her credit.

R3 had had a rapid rise in striking prowess, and maybe the streak of two KO's in three successive fights went to her head, but she still -- dare I say it -- punched like a girl. Her technique still showed a bit of the typical female awkwardness. She had no business trying to stand and bang with the like of Holm.

As we saw in the Tate fight, when she's on her ass, Holm is average at best. And R3's experience on the ground is even more extensive than Holm's as a boxer. If R3 had fought more like Tate, been patient and waited for the take-down to present itself, I see a completely different outcome. I think her coach is as much to blame -- if not more -- than she is.

BTW, Dana now is sniping at Holm's coach because he pushed to get the Tate fight before R3 would have been ready to return. Which rather ignores the fact that Holm was ahead on all three judge's scorecards going into the fifth round. Dana has admitted he absolutely hated the business side of that fight, the fact that it put Hom-Rousey II at risk. But he'd have been all smiles if Holm had won, and she did make a good run at it.

No one ever knew, and no one still truly knows, how broad Rousey's skill sets are, because all of her fights have been so brief, and except for the loss to Tate, she dominated almost every second of every fight. The outcome of her every fight was a foregone conclusion. Before the fight, I myself referred to Holm as Rousey's "next victim." But that could only have continued for so long before interest in seeing her fight fell off for the simple fact that the UFC was not supplying any credible competition for her.

But now that's all changed. The emperor is once again naked (or wearing body paint). Also, there's been much remarking about how electrified the crowd was during Holm-Tate. More even than during any of Rousey's fights. I've read some of the MMA pundits opining that that fight marked the women's UFC finally taking on a life of its own, outside of Ronda Rousey.

If that is the case, I think what Dana is overlooking is that those three have the makings of a sports rivalry unlike anything women's sports has ever seen, and which might come to be as epic as Ali-Frazier-Foreman. If he can milk this until one woman has shown a clear ability to dominate the other two, instead of the single 2 million PPV he might have got from Holm-Rousey II, he could have three or four or five well more than 1 million PPV fights, all with women in the main event (and all of whom, I might add, are paid well less than any man who holds a UFC title, so Dana banks more of the gate).

Tate has been taunting R3, as expected, claiming she's lost heart and has no intention of coming back. Except today, a sports memorabilia marketing company announced they'd signed an exclusive multi-year contract with R3. Which sounds to me like there's no doubt she's coming back, and with the full intention of hanging around for a while.


jmdirt said:
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/14954540/kimbo-slice-ken-shamrock-fail-bellator-149-prefight-drug-tests

If you din't see the fight watch the video clips in the ESPN link...
Shamrock can write off that appeal.

UFC lightweight Felipe Olivier also got popped (as yet undisclosed substance). He tested negative after the fight (a submission loss to Tony Martin at 30 January Fight Night on Fox) but an OOC from a month before (administered in Brazil, no less) caught up to him. In light of the loss and the positive, his time would be best spent NOT waiting for the next call from Dana.

Olivier makes the 3rd positive since USADA came to town, four if you count Mirko Cro Cop, who confessed to something he hadn't been caught at. Looking at USADA's UFC numbers today, their top test-ees are McGregor with 13, Holm with 11, and Aldo, R3 and RdA with 10 each,
 
May 14, 2010
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StyrbjornSterki said:
R3's manager says Holm tagged her in the first and never recovered. Even if that's true, that only could be possible if her coach failed to adequately train her to stay well away from the punching power of a woman with nearly 40 prizefights and several boxing titles to her credit.

R3 had had a rapid rise in striking prowess, and maybe the streak of two KO's in three successive fights went to her head, but she still -- dare I say it -- punched like a girl. Her technique still showed a bit of the typical female awkwardness. She had no business trying to stand and bang with the like of Holm.

As we saw in the Tate fight, when she's on her ass, Holm is average at best. And R3's experience on the ground is even more extensive than Holm's as a boxer. If R3 had fought more like Tate, been patient and waited for the take-down to present itself, I see a completely different outcome. I think her coach is as much to blame -- if not more -- than she is.

If it were up to me, that coach would have been fired before they got out of the locker room that night. But she didn't fire him so it's on her. She must have her reasons.

BTW, Dana now is sniping at Holm's coach because he pushed to get the Tate fight before R3 would have been ready to return. Which rather ignores the fact that Holm was ahead on all three judge's scorecards going into the fifth round. Dana has admitted he absolutely hated the business side of that fight, the fact that it put Hom-Rousey II at risk. But he'd have been all smiles if Holm had won, and she did make a good run at it.

No one ever knew, and no one still truly knows, how broad Rousey's skill sets are, because all of her fights have been so brief, and except for the loss to Holm, she dominated almost every second of every fight. The outcome of her every fight was a foregone conclusion. Before the fight, I myself referred to Holm as Rousey's "next victim." But that could only have continued for so long before interest in seeing her fight fell off for the simple fact that the UFC was not supplying any credible competition for her.

Interest was already falling off. I read that the gate for R3/Holm was not nearly what they'd hoped it would be. This fall off in interest - which they knew about well before the fight - in addition to Rousey's entirely uncharacteristic preparation and performance - is what led me to believe that Rousey had thrown the fight, albeit very reluctantly.

But as I said up thread, I no longer think this is the case - I think all the pressure and adulation finally got to her and threw her off her game. And maybe that coach of hers isn't really all that, too.

But now that's all changed. The emperor is once again naked (or wearing body paint). Also, there's been much remarking about how electrified the crowd was during Holm-Tate. More even than during any of Rousey's fights. I've read some of the MMA pundits opining that that fight marked the women's UFC finally taking on a life of its own, outside of Ronda Rousey.

If that is the case, I think what Dana is overlooking is that those three have the makings of a sports rivalry unlike anything women's sports has ever seen, and which might come to be as epic as Ali-Frazier-Foreman. If he can milk this until one woman has shown a clear ability to dominate the other two, instead of the single 2 million PPV he might have got from Holm-Rousey II, he could have three or four or five well more than 1 million PPV fights, all with women in the main event (and all of whom, I might add, are paid well less than any man who holds a UFC title, so Dana banks more of the gate).

Yeah, I think you might be onto something with the Ali-Frazier-Foreman thing.

Tate has been taunting R3, as expected, claiming she's lost heart and has no intention of coming back. Except today, a sports memorabilia marketing company announced they'd signed an exclusive multi-year contract with R3. Which sounds to me like there's no doubt she's coming back, and with the full intention of hanging around for a while.

I hope that's the case.
 
Matt Mitrione is on his way to Bellator. cites the Reebok sponsorship deal as a major factor in decision to leave the UFC.

EDIT:
I'm obviously a bit thick as it only just occurred to me that all these defections are good for Bellator and bad for the UFC, not just because it impacts the two organisation's relative levels of talent, but also because UFC fans are more likely to to watch Bellator events so they can see how the fighters they became fans of while in the UFC are getting on.
 
The Abbott-Severn match at tomorrow's UR Fight event is a scratch. Abbott couldn't get medical clearance, and apparently they couldn't find anyone willing to take on the ferocious 57-year-old Dan Severn on such short notice.


Ariel Halwani has written that a Diaz-McGregor rematch is in the works for UFC 200, again at 170 pounds.

OT but I'm still puzzling over how a man named after a mermaid princess managed to land a presenter's gig in such a macho sporting venue.