Moderation

[RedheadDane]

I guess the best thing we can do when he returns is to just welcome him back. Not act like he's some major rule breaker, or anything.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

There was a load of spam on the Mountain bike forum; thankfully it was removed, but the World Cup thread seems also to have been removed.

 

[Red Rick]

There was a load of spam on the Mountain bike forum; thankfully it was removed, but the World Cup thread seems also to have been removed.

Should be back now

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I thought about photoshopping Colbrelli’s face over Jack Nicholson’s with the caption “Here’s Sonny!” but maybe some people wouldn’t find that funny. I’m quite sure the person that reported me has been playing coy in this topic as one of the defenders of moderating “You have to move on and let go at some point. ”, so i didn’t want to risk causing this person a heart attack. Ba-dum-tshh.

Anywho, i only noticed two days ago that this discussion was going on in here. Allow me to add a few things, not just about what happened last month, but also my personal view on what i feel is a problematic relationship between CN and its forum members. Unfortunately, about the former i can not say all i have/want to say because it could get me banned, as discussing it appears to be a bannable offence as well. I thought about making everything clear with a hypothetical story about a poster named “nonsense-is-not-your-friend” getting banned in the “Eddy Merckx is the old Remco Evenepoel topic” but that would get old and tedious fast.

Considering i can not talk about what i did in order to get banned, surely i should be able to say what i did NOT do. So let me start by making one thing crystal clear. I did not mock or rejoice over the fact that Colbrelli suffered a cardiac arrest and nearly died, as people insinuated. I have put Netserk on ignore for his repeated mocking of Evenepoel’s crash in Lombardia and its consequences. It’s not my style. I did not even mention this accident, nor did i allude or refer to it as was claimed. For those who actually read my post, you might remember i mentioned a timeframe. Why would i literally speak of “within 12 months” when Colbrelli’s accident occurred exactly 6 months after the event i was speaking of. Sure, 6 months falls within that timeframe, but why wouldn’t i just say 6 months if that was what i was referring to? Furthermore, if i wanted to make a personal attack on Colbrelli, i would much rather attack his ties to Berlusconi and his remarks regarding Mussolini.

Someone here wondered whether i might have been rude/offensive to a mod “behind the scenes” in order to get my ban extended. No, I was not. In fact, it is impossible. When you get banned you are greeted with an “Oops, we ran into some problems” error message with a cold “You have been banned. Your ban will be lifted date/time”. That’s it. You can’t even read the forum, for that you need to log out (lol). The only thing you can see is your notifications and PM icons, but you can not click on them. So i have seen that someone sent me a private message 3 weeks ago, but i could not read, let alone respond to it. Funny story actually, because that message turns out came from an admin who removed an unrelated post, claiming it was against the rules, yet there was no mention of that rule in the forum rules he linked me to. Not only that, but even if the rule (s)he spoke of existed, the post i made would not even fit the description to begin with. Amazing. But just to put your minds at ease, the claimed infraction was about me posting freely available news that i had translated to share on the forum. Dingalingaling. That’s what we’re dealing with here. Anyway, back on topic.

There is also no reason given for why you are banned. You also don’t know which mod banned you. There is no way to appeal or to ask for clarification. Basically bureaucracy at it’s finest, but things get even better and veer further into Kafka territory when it appears your message gets deleted and talking about what happened can get you banned again. It does however give you a good understanding of what riders at DSM must be going through.

The perfect liability loop. Ban a person, delete what he said, and make discussing it a bannable offence. How can you be wrong. To see -what i previously considered- sane posters come in here to defend this chain of authority, seemingly at ease with the assumption that “if X got banned, i’m sure (s)he had it coming”, imposes a strong feeling that there is an enormous lack of critical thinking on the forum, and most definitely a lack of self reflection among the admins.

It might surprise people, but i am a founder/admin/mod of a different forum myself. A forum nearly a decade old, just shy of 1000 members, so nothing so big. However, it is that forum’s policy not to delete any messages. Posts that warrant a warning (5 strikes you’re out) or a direct ban, get moved to a closed topic (meaning posters can not reply in/to that topic) which is dedicated specifically to that purpose. That means it is for all to see what the poster did, without interpretation of a mod. There is no “i never said/did that” retord possible, not even months later. Everyone can see what you did, and as such it also acts as a deterrent and cautionary tale. This was exactly the reason why i made that change in policy, because posters would cry “fake news” when confronted with their misbehaviour/abuse at a later time, especially repeat offenders. Only now nobody can reply to it, and the post (and follow ups) are removed from the original topic, so further off-topic discussion regarding the violation is highly unlikely. If the issue is brought up publicly again in a respectable manner, with concerns to moderation being unfair or unjust, there are no consequences and the mod team will get some critical feedback from the community, even if the mod determines the ban stands. When forum rules were originally made or amended afterwards, we always requested the feedback of the community before going forward. because that’s what a forum should be about, the community.

So i wish my post would not have been deleted, so everyone could see exactly what horrible things i said. But we can not discuss it, so problem solved.

It appears CN does not consider this an actual community. Wondering about what happened to a fellow member who you might have been communicating with more over the course of several years than you might have with some family members, appears “not done”, even to a point where asking about it is a borderline bannable offence. It seems CN does only value its members as far as they can act as a revenue stream, going by the amount of adds that both the forum and the website are littered with, but mods are understaffed and do not get paid, so it’s clear our role shouldn’t be going beyond that of a revenue stream. A few thousands of members doing a few dozens of clicks per day. As long as they don’t ask questions or pose problems, surely.

Considering i did not divulge or address what i did to get banned, only what i didn’t do in order to avoid confusion, along with what i believe the forum admins/owners should look to improve and reflect upon, i don’t think i could/should be banned for what i have said up to this point. Especially since in the forum rules the admin linked me to in PM, say the “community team” is “happy to hear your criticism (and encourage it!)”.

Which is not to say i did not say or do anything against the forum rules. Because while i did not outright break any forum rules, i did imply things which should not be discussed in the regular forum. Mea culpa. So i will take it on the chin. But i can't help but assume the hysterical reactions by some posters are what made the mod pull the trigger.

In the chaos that ensued, after i had been assumed to be a despicable human being, i also asked the hysterical posters to think before posting. Then i also made a remark about Colbrelli having suffered from covid prior to his cardiac arrest. But it appears that was also misinterpreted in the chaos. I also don't think this was what warranted the ban.

So, there you have it.

 

[Netserk]

There is also no reason given for why you are banned. You also don’t know which mod banned you. There is no way to appeal or to ask for clarification.

I was wrongfully banned for two weeks during the Tour last year. I appealed, and I think the ban was overturned within a day.

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Who do I contact if I have a problem or question?
The Community Staff and Moderation Team are happy to provide help with any technical questions you may have. For problems that fall outside the norm (disputes with moderators, issues with the site, forums, or commenting systems, or to appeal a ban), please send an email to community@futurenet.com and somebody from the Community staff will reach out to you as soon as possible.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I was wrongfully banned for two weeks during the Tour last year. I appealed, and I think the ban was overturned within a day.

Read Before Posting: Forum Rules

Welcome to the Cycling News Community! We extend a warm welcome to you and invite you to participate in the ongoing discourse here in the Cycling News forums! This is a place where you can share your thoughts with like-minded enthusiasts from across the globe! Before you begin, however, there...

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Good to know and i am pleasantly surprised your mail actually got read. What i meant was that there is no further interaction possible on the forum once you get banned. To read the forum rules you would need to log out, search the forum and then you would need to open your email client.

But since i did in fact say things i probably shouldn't have, i didn't bother. Though the randomness did bother me. Clinic insinuations get made all the time and i have rarely seen members banned for it.

 

[Lequack]

Good to know and i am pleasantly surprised your mail actually got read. What i meant was that there is no further interaction possible on the forum once you get banned. To read the forum rules you would need to log out, search the forum and then you would need to open your email client.

But since i did in fact say things i probably shouldn't have, i didn't bother. Though the randomness did bother me. Clinic insinuations get made all the time and i have rarely seen members banned for it.

Welcome back!

 

[fmk_RoI]

i did not outright break any forum rules, i did imply things which should not be discussed in the regular forum. Mea culpa. So i will take it on the chin.

Nothing says taking it on the chin better than a libertine-length screed that puts the blame on an outbreak of mass hysteria.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nothing says taking it on the chin better than a libertine-length screed that puts the blame on an outbreak of mass hysteria.

How very dare you!

I could have got at least an extra paragraph out of that.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nothing says taking it on the chin better than a libertine-length screed that puts the blame on an outbreak of mass hysteria.

Hmm. Clearly i could learn a thing or two from your postings, as you are able to put conflicting impressions in only one sentence. The fact that you read my post. And the fact that you didn't read my post.

 

[tobydawq]

Hmm. Clearly i could learn a thing or two from your postings, as you are able to put conflicting impressions in only one sentence. The fact that you read my post. And the fact that you didn't read my post.

Welcome back

 

[SHaines]

Firstly, thank you for stepping in on an unofficial capacity to address our concerns.

Been thinking about your quote above. I hope I am not censored for asking but why is moderation even such a sensitive issue? What actual problems were caused by that old thread? It informed facts it was not “discussing” moderation. The thread could have been locked to anyone who wasn’t a mod or administrator.

This is only a cycling forum I get the impression those in charge take the forum too seriously sometimes. But like you, a timer showing against banned members would satisfy most. But the best would be to simply reinstate the old thread about who was banned, how long and what for. It would also serve to remind members of acceptable behaviour. Someone suddenly showing as banned does not. And yes this does disrupt discussion.

Hey there,

Forums are a great place for people to come together and have discussions about their shared passions and we want to keep the focus there. While there may have been places in the past to have these discussions, one important thing to keep in mind is that each person here has a right to maintain their privacy and dignity, which means public discussions that can serve to shame people who violated policies are toxic to any community.

Anyone who receives a time out or a permanent ban can email community@futurenet.com and we'll work with you directly to explain the issue. If you just want to hear the details of a ban or time out placed on another user's account, we cannot assist you there due to the aforementioned privacy concerns.

We do not need public discussions of who received what punishment for what to maintain a healthy discussion in the forums.

 

[fmk_RoI]

We do not need public discussions of who received what punishment for what to maintain a healthy discussion in the forums.

Amen.

 

[RedheadDane]

Sure, we might not need to know the reason someone got banned. Still rather nice to know when people will be back!
Seriously, that's primarily what we're asking for; some way of knowing how long a poster is banned for. Because, while some people seem unable to grasp the concept, it does matter.

And I will once again like to show my admiration to the mods for making it seem like the deleted Info Thread was working perfectly, when apparently it was causing a lot of trouble behind the scenes.

 

[SHaines]

Sure, we might not need to know the reason someone got banned. Still rather nice to know when people will be back!
Seriously, that's primarily what we're asking for; some way of knowing how long a poster is banned for.

This isn't a thing we'll be doing. It's not something built into Xenforo (the forum platform we use) because it's a privacy nightmare. If folks are temporarily timed out, they'll be back within days, in most cases.

 

[RedheadDane]

This isn't a thing we'll be doing. It's not something built into Xenforo (the forum platform we use) because it's a privacy nightmare. If folks are temporarily timed out, they'll be back within days, in most cases.

It really is a shame the old Infor thread supposedly caused so many issues... Of course, writing the reason for the ban might not be so useful, because as we have clearly seen recently; mods make mistakes!

But anyway. This thread was originally to combat a much more serious issue than a few rules being broken, and the length of possible bans. It was created to combat spammers! And, it seems they're getting clever. Look at this from the "Last WT team to get a win" thread:

According to my assumption, French team will win this one.

Everything screams "spammer".
New account
Generic username
Random post... except it kinda makes sense...

 

[Netserk]

This isn't a thing we'll be doing. It's not something built into Xenforo (the forum platform we use) because it's a privacy nightmare. If folks are temporarily timed out, they'll be back within days, in most cases.

If I may suggest a compromise: Instead of the previous locked thread where temporary bans were announced and motivated in a new post each, a similar locked thread could be made that only contained the OP, which would be continuously edited, that only showed an overview of currently (temporarily) suspended users and when their bans would end. No reason given, no record kept. When the bans are over, they would be removed from the OP. As such, the only additional information provided would be for when users are expected to return. So at this moment it would be empty, and a week ago it would only have shown: @Logic-is-your-friend: 2023-02-11.

You could write in that thread that the minimal information provided there is not an invitation for comments (perhaps making explicit that such comments automatically result in a 24h ban), if your concern is that it could be seen that way.

 

[RedheadDane]

If I may suggest a compromise: Instead of the previous locked thread where temporary bans were announced and motivated in a new post each, a similar locked thread could be made that only contained the OP, which would be continuously edited, that only showed an overview of currently (temporarily) suspended users and when their bans would end. No reason given, no record kept. When the bans are over, they would be removed from the OP. As such, the only additional information provided would be for when users are expected to return. So at this moment it would be empty, and a week ago it would only have shown: @Logic-is-your-friend: 2023-02-11.

Good idea. However, I'd like to suggest one little change.
Since there are people on this forum who writes date backwards, writing the dates out in full might be better. So for Logic it would have shown "Feb 11."
"2-11" would have implied he was banned until November.

 

[SHaines]

To be as absolutely clear as possible, there are no circumstances in which we'll be publicly tracking actions taken against any user.

 

[RedheadDane]

To be as absolutely clear as possible, there are no circumstances in which we'll be publicly tracking actions taken against any user.

So it is a matter of "We just don't understand how a community works"? Gotcha!

Of course, it's hard to find a perfect solution, but Netserk's is pretty damn close.

 

[fmk_RoI]

So it is a matter of "We just don't understand how a community works"?

You've been told it's a matter of privacy. Pay attention to what's being said. Things work better when you do that.

 

[Ricco']

You've been told it's a matter of privacy. Pay attention to what's being said. Things work better when you do that.

How is that a matter of privacy?

We already know if someone is banned because they get a big sign next to their name saying "Banned" on their profile and in any post they have made in the forum since the creation of the account. If there are privacy concerns about announcing someone banned status, that should be violating it more than a sticky post, who won't be showing as a new post, in obscure corners of the forum.

Plus, if it's a matter of privacy, the member in question could either be asked by the mods if he wanted that information shared with their fellow members either when he is banned or by a ticked option on its profile.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Or instead of banning people they have to write a 3 page APA format essay with references on why what they said was wrong.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Or instead of banning people they have to write a 3 page APA format essay with references on why what they said was wrong.

Or, in the case of a tiny but vocal minority, six pages on why their ban was down to mass hysteria and really they shouldn't have been punished, with supporting testimonials from other posters.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Or instead of banning people they have to write a 3 page APA format essay with references on why what they said was wrong.

Or have them solve a bunch of equations. That should at least make one forum member tread lightly.