Moderators

[sittingbison]

Note that Sitting Bison is now banning people who criticize his moderation. Read his most recent ban post. Absolutely no sense that there might be a conflict of interest there.

And I won't say a darn thing more about this because I am concerned that he will impose a "harassment" ban upon me.

nothing of the sort

you can criticise ie critique all you like. If is fair, I'll take it on board. If its unfair, I'll not action it and you have nothing to fear, like all other critiquing I/we endure

If however you choose to abuse me in the five minute time frame while I'm actually in the process of the very modding we are discussing, you can take a hike. The Sceptic chose this option. Unwise.

 

[The Hitch]

I blame rank stupidity on the part of the mods. There are a lot of forums. They are all in competition with one another. If you want to discuss racing then go to Podium Cafe. If you want to talk tech then go to RBR or Weight Weenies. For general cycling use RBR or Bike Forums. The Clinic was the only thing that made this place unique, and the mods have done their best to throttle the life out of it.

The notorious Coolhand looks like King Solomon compared to this lot. Banning people for feedback in the "About" forum? Really? Whose idiotic idea of customer service was that?

But Bro. You've made this same "RIP cycling news forum" post so many times now.

 

[MarkvW]

nothing of the sort

you can criticise ie critique all you like. If is fair, I'll take it on board. If its unfair, I'll not action it and you have nothing to fear, like all other critiquing I/we endure

If however you choose to abuse me in the five minute time frame while I'm actually in the process of the very modding we are discussing, you can take a hike. The Sceptic chose this option. Unwise.

"Take a hike, eh?" Some moderator.

 

[BroDeal]

But Bro. You've made this same "RIP cycling news forum" post so many times now.

And I was right. It has been obvious for a long time.

I just check in here on occasion to see how much worse it has become. It is like watching a slasher movie. Someone goes down to the cellar. You know what will happen. It is pointless to watch. But you watch anyway to see whether the poor SOB gets a machete to the throat or an axe to the face.

 

[sittingbison]

"Take a hike, eh?" Some moderator.

yup. Take a hike.

None of us has to put up with abuse. Such as this delightful one Afrank deleted below vv

 

[JRTinMA]

yup. Take a hike.

None of us has to put up with abuse.

I used to think you were the tallest midget in the moderator pool. This week has demonstrated why you should go away. You an that idiot berzin have ruined this place.

 

[laurel1969]

whatever you say champ. keep running the forum into the ground.

If I may...

I moderate several forums of my own and have moderated for others over the past 20 years, going back to the era of Usenet. It is largely a thankless task, made harder when participants forget that they have a responsibility to set the overall tone of discourse. A brief perusal of your posting history reveals that much if not most of your contributions are likely to cause disharmony, to put it mildly.Which is why it rankles slightly that you post the above. Perhaps before you attack the moderators for what you perceive to be the deleterious effect they have on the forum, you might consider your role in this.

Put simply, there would be no need for moderation if people moderated themselves.

 

[MarkvW]

yup. Take a hike.

None of us has to put up with abuse. Such as this delightful one Afrank deleted below vv

It is a good sign that Afrank moderated that post. It's no big deal to refer inappropriate posts involving yourself to another mod.

 

[Amsterhammer]

You guys have seriously lost the plot. I agree with BD's comment, which should give you food for thought since I can count the number of times that I have agreed with him about anything during the last five years on one hand.

And Bison, as far as appreciation or opprobrium is concerned, you reap what you sow. I miss Susan.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

I miss Susan.

Thanks. But back when I was actively moderating, the fuss was just as loud. There were tons of complaints about me, too.

I must admit I don't miss it at all!

 

[mrhender]

Thinking out loud....

Firstly I would like to say that I appreciate the time and effort you mods put into this..
Secondly, I am no saint/expert, or claim to be any of the sort..
Just offering my observations and opinions..

It is self-evident that to some posters -Any mod/degree of moderation will be percieved unfair, too much/too little -no matter who does it, or how it's done.. You can't satisfy everyone, neither should you.

A concern for you mods could probably be the issue of consitency and maintaining an unbiased approach.
I am guessing that is one of the reasons. That there in my observation seems to be (maybe too) few of you?

I may be wrong but I rarely see much moderation (in the areas that require most and sometimes constant attention) from other than sittingbison and Afrank.
I cannot help but to think that the number of active mods may contribute to the task beeing more a burden than a pride.
As it should be?
To be clear I am not communicating a wish for more moderation in terms of bans etc.
But maybe you need a few more to share the load?
Also do I acknowledge that "too many cooks" could also provide an obstacle for consistency. You have to weigh up things against each other -of course...

One thing that springs to mind in all of this. Is that the need for moderation often comes in clutches, which makes the task even more difficult because, the arrival of the mod is sometimes too late and has to result in multiple bans to uphold the sacred concistency.. You can only do so much. So when a thread is already on fire, warnings sometimes are superceeded in terms of the train already derailed..

Furthermore I consider the sometimes occurring multiple challenging of you mods and you moderation as an obstacle for your job. Beeing critizised in harsh times which is needed spent on moderation, does not always make you better.

So step in early and get accused of beeing harsh and destroying threads? Or step in late and have to perform house cleaning with multiple arrests... Hard choice, I don't envy you.....!

It also comes to mind that you often when you appear, are troubled by constant notifications, that in the end makes the moderation you are trying to perform even more difficult...

Point is...
I think we, and you need more active moderators to help ease the burden, and make you even more sharp in your interventions..
If moderation on this forum becomes a notion of a dark cloud over you, we are all in trouble..

One last thing... More moderators should not necessarily mean more visible moderation in terms of slapping wrists. Maybe it is possible to moderate more effectively behind the scenes.. I dont know...

All this is just thinking out loud.. And should be interpreted with that in mind..
I could of course be totally wrong...

Cheers

 

[red_flanders]

You guys have seriously lost the plot. I agree with BD's comment, which should give you food for thought since I can count the number of times that I have agreed with him about anything during the last five years on one hand.

And Bison, as far as appreciation or opprobrium is concerned, you reap what you sow. I miss Susan.

That's a whole lot of horse manure. I saw the offending post, and it was abusive and idiotic. Much like many posts from in the past. I don't think the mods should have to put up with that in any way.

Critique, yes. Abuse, no. Should have been removing such posts and those who feel compelled to act like petulant 7-year-olds a long time ago.

 

[Granville57]

I am none too happy with some of the changes that have taken place under the current mod team in the past several months, but I have no idea why sittingbison and Afrank are becoming the targets of seemingly incessant attacks.

When contacted directly, and treated with respect and dignity, they actually respond...in kind.

I don't have to agree with every decision they make, but when asked to intervene on matters behind-the-scences, I have found them both to be quite helpful and responsive. This could have to do with moving posts, organizing threads, or eliminating obvious spam/advertising accounts.

Some of you might be amazed at what can be accomplished if you keep things concise, to-the-point, and actually contribute in ways that make the mod's job easier. And if have any reasonable sense of humor, you'll find that that, too, can be reciprocated.

If there are issues of fundamental disagreement, or if mistakes are made, then of course there should be an avenue for discussing that—and there is (notice the title of this thread). Being a bit tactful about it in the process, may prove to be worth the effort.


But if you're hoping to actually accomplish something with direct attacks on the volunteers, then you might be better off ****edited by mod****

 

[laurel1969]

Well quite.

I can't really comment on the history here but I have moderated one or two forums over the years and when I see comments like this:

whatever you say champ. keep running the forum into the ground.

....it is time to remember why it is that moderation is needed in the first place.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I am none too happy with some of the changes that have taken place under the current mod team in the past several months, but I have no idea why sittingbison and Afrank are becoming the targets of seemingly incessant attacks.

When contacted directly, and treated with respect and dignity, they actually respond...in kind.

I don't have to agree with every decision they make, but when asked to intervene on matters behind-the-scences, I have found them both to be quite helpful and responsive. This could have to do with moving posts, organizing threads, or eliminating obvious spam/advertising accounts.

Some of you might be amazed at what can be accomplished if you keep things concise, to-the-point, and actually contribute in ways that make the mod's job easier. And if have any reasonable sense of humor, you'll find that that, too, can be reciprocated.

If there are issues of fundamental disagreement, or if mistakes are made, then of course there should be an avenue for discussing that—and there is (notice the title of this thread). Being a bit tactful about it in the process, may prove to be worth the effort.


But if you're hoping to actually accomplish something with direct attacks on the volunteers, then you might be better off ****edited by mod****

Good post Granville!

 

[Granville57]

Perhaps a mod could delete the apostrophe from the title of the Tommy D thread before Chewie gets heckled.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=22850

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Perhaps a mod could delete the apostrophe from the title of the Tommy D thread before Chewie gets heckled.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=22850

But but

Sorry man, I'm a stickler for language usage

 

[Granville57]

But but

Too late.

You see, I told you some of the mods here were cooperative.

 

[peloton]

I am none too happy with some of the changes that have taken place under the current mod team in the past several months, but I have no idea why sittingbison and Afrank are becoming the targets of seemingly incessant attacks.

When contacted directly, and treated with respect and dignity, they actually respond...in kind.

I don't have to agree with every decision they make, but when asked to intervene on matters behind-the-scences, I have found them both to be quite helpful and responsive. This could have to do with moving posts, organizing threads, or eliminating obvious spam/advertising accounts.

Some of you might be amazed at what can be accomplished if you keep things concise, to-the-point, and actually contribute in ways that make the mod's job easier. And if have any reasonable sense of humor, you'll find that that, too, can be reciprocated.

If there are issues of fundamental disagreement, or if mistakes are made, then of course there should be an avenue for discussing that—and there is (notice the title of this thread). Being a bit tactful about it in the process, may prove to be worth the effort.


But if you're hoping to actually accomplish something with direct attacks on the volunteers, then you might be better off ****edited by mod****

This. Well said.
Being respectful, even if someone disagrees with you, ain't that difficult.

Thanks mods for the thankless job, many of us do really appreciate it

 

[hiero2]

Firstly I would like to say that I appreciate the time and effort you mods put into this.. . . .

It is self-evident that to some posters -Any mod/degree of moderation will be percieved unfair, too much/too little -no matter who does it, or how it's done.. You can't satisfy everyone, neither should you. . . ..

. . .
I think we, and you need more active moderators to help ease the burden, and make you even more sharp in your interventions..
. . .

Concur. Having been there and done that. Concur.

One last thing... More moderators should not necessarily mean more visible moderation in terms of slapping wrists. Maybe it is possible to moderate more effectively behind the scenes.. I dont know...
. . .

Repeating myself, having been there - and done that - sorry that is a nogo. All the mods past and present, have tried doing more behind the scenes at some point, and still do. You are not aware of most of that because it IS behind the scenes. The visible part, in THIS forum, as it has an extremely fractious group of posters, will never be LESS visible - or at least not until the mod staff is doubled and a good deal more active modding is done - so that modding is faster and more responsive. It would also mean, at least for a while, a decrease in the freedom of speech available in the forum. For some reasons posters when posting in this forum, take more liberties with trying to evade the rules, insulting the other members of the group, and dissing the mods than they do in other forums. I have seen the like in some unmoderated forums.

That's a whole lot of horse manure. I saw the offending post, and it was abusive and idiotic. Much like many posts from in the past. I don't think the mods should have to put up with that in any way.

Critique, yes. Abuse, no. Should have been removing such posts and those who feel compelled to act like petulant 7-year-olds a long time ago.

CONCUR.

Well quite.

I can't really comment on the history here but I have moderated one or two forums over the years and when I see comments like this:



....it is time to remember why it is that moderation is needed in the first place.

This. Well said.
Being respectful, even if someone disagrees with you, ain't that difficult.

Thanks mods for the thankless job, many of us do really appreciate it

Exactly.

 

[hiero2]

I blame rank stupidity on the part of the mods. . . .

Better to look in the mirror. Cheers.

Obvious baiter is obvious.

Having rules and then banning people who break those rules seems pretty consistent to me.

I've been banned thanks to those same rules.

I think twice now when a discussion starts to go in circles and evolve into more bickering. Believe it or not.

Thank dog. I can't tell you the number of people the mods have gone 'round and 'round with to try and achieve a more respectful and thoughtful posting style. Quite a few of whom are permabanned now, or were. And I am sure it STILL goes on, even though I mod no longer. I've seen consistent evidence of same from several of the current mods, in the threads.

Note that Sitting Bison is now banning people who criticize his moderation. Read his most recent ban post. Absolutely no sense that there might be a conflict of interest there.

And I won't say a darn thing more about this because I am concerned that he will impose a "harassment" ban upon me.

Tell me you don't see how this very post is inflammatory and argumentative? You are a man of words - you should know better. And you DO know where the appropriate channels are for particular types of posts. The evidence, in this case, leads me to believe you are being willfully argumentative, disrepectful, and discordant.

 

[BroDeal]

Better to look in the mirror. Cheers.

I should probably be looking at you. The forum's decline started when you became a mod with an agenda who saw himself as the new sheriff aiming to clean up this one horse forum. You brought with you soft focused memories of Usenet's golden age and antiquated ideas of changing modern Internet culture to the collegiate atmosphere of twenty-five years ago. The ensuing over moderation sucked the life out of the place.

Tell me you don't see how this very post is inflammatory and argumentative? You are a man of words - you should know better. And you DO know where the appropriate channels are for particular types of posts. The evidence, in this case, leads me to believe you are being willfully argumentative, disrepectful, and discordant.

Here is a prime example. Inflammatory? Argumentative? Really? Just how is one supposed to question the all too common and high handed suspensions that seem to be driven by a mod's ego? What purpose does suspending JRT accomplish other than attempting to prevent people from using the feedback forum?

 

[Afrank]

Here is a prime example. Inflammatory? Argumentative? Really? Just how is one supposed to question the all too common and high handed suspensions that seem to be driven by a mod's ego? What purpose does suspending JRT accomplish other than attempting to prevent people from using the feedback forum?

It accomplishes giving people the message that insults are not an acceptable form of feedback.

Maybe you didn't see the post he got banned for, but I can assure you, there was nothing in it in the slightest that could be termed as feedback or be acceptable comments to make anyplace on this forum.

 

[python]

It accomplishes giving people the message that insults are not an acceptable form of feedback.

Maybe you didn't see the post he got banned for, but I can assure you, there was nothing in it in the slightest that could be termed as feedback or be acceptable comments to make anyplace on this forum.

i saw the jrt post before it was deleted...you are absolutely correct. Calling any poster, much less a mod (no matter how one views his/her worth) an idiot is worth a suspension. And that post was consistent with the style of the subject, insulted another hard working mod as the tallest of the midgets.

Does that mean the moderation was flawless ? Far from.

As i mentioned just few posts above, imo, in the chess thread ethoes was over-moderated. The allegedly antisemitic remark removed from his post totally ignored the context that he screamed in the other posts against bobby fischer's antisemitic rants. And to add to the imperfections, as i mentioned many times, i do not see the value of so many public suspensions concurrently, given that some of those who got into the offtopic vortex have actually rare infractions ( like kingr) and would be more than likely reasoned by a warning. Applying the same punitive measure to all found in the act is one of the persisting problems of the moderating team. I understand the 'equality before the law motive', but it is a false criteria ignoring the posters differing troll record...

So i think...

 

[MarkvW]

Better to look in the mirror. Cheers.


Thank dog. I can't tell you the number of people the mods have gone 'round and 'round with to try and achieve a more respectful and thoughtful posting style. Quite a few of whom are permabanned now, or were. And I am sure it STILL goes on, even though I mod no longer. I've seen consistent evidence of same from several of the current mods, in the threads.



Tell me you don't see how this very post is inflammatory and argumentative? You are a man of words - you should know better. And you DO know where the appropriate channels are for particular types of posts. The evidence, in this case, leads me to believe you are being willfully argumentative, disrepectful, and discordant.

You fairly characterize my post. But it is plainly inappropriate for a specific mod to banter with posters, and then turn around and either sanction or threaten to sanction those same posters. The mod obviously ought to step aside and let another mod consider the appropriate response. That ought to be obvious to the crew here, but apparently it is not.

I feel bad because my post prompted JRTINMA to go off. He shouldn't have.