Most believable Tour in years?

[DirtyWorks]

I am never going to be burned like that again. I believe that the only reason that they haven’t found anyone out yet is because A. They are using better stuff that people are just not testing for, or B. they are just not releasing the results because it would kill the sport. Call me jaded…

The notion of "better stuff" pops up often in these discussions. What is explained is GC leaders who later admit to doping, are using the same technology only maybe they respond better, or have found a combination that works wonders for them.

AND THEN the UCI doesn't sanction them despite the fact the doping they describe should create some kind of suspicious/positive values. Why some riders get preferential treatment by the UCI/ASO while others do not remains an unanswered question.

To be fair, we know cyclists have figured out there's a gaping hole in the biological passport for grand tours. (Horner, Armstrong values) Why the UCI hasn't closed it is another unanswered question.

Stokes has published a nice summary: http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/t...lysis-of-climbing-data-and-what-does-it-mean/

What I saw from everyone but Nibali was clean-ish. The Giro was cleaner still. However, I believe Testosterone and HGH are still being used as potent recovery therapy.

 

[JimmyFingers]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/tour-de-france-2014-analysis-of-climbing-data-and-what-does-it-mean/

Solid article

 

[red_flanders]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/tour-de-france-2014-analysis-of-climbing-data-and-what-does-it-mean/

Solid article

Good one, thanks for posting.

 

[Big Doopie]

Good article. Tx.

the presence of those unrepentant dopers, adds concern.

And there u have it. It's the reason riders like Clentadoppucci and Piti are the worst thing for cycling and should have been booted years ago.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Good article. Tx.



And there u have it. It's the reason riders like Clentadoppucci and Piti are the worst thing for cycling and should have been booted years ago.

Why is caught+unrepentant worse than not caught+unrepentant?
I'd say those who got away with it are the worst thing for cycling
People like Voigt and Dekker spring to mind

 

[Benotti69]

Why is caught+unrepentant worse than not caught+unrepentant?
I'd say those who got away with it are the worst thing for cycling
People like Voigt and Dekker spring to mind

why past tense?

Those getting away with it are the worst thing for cycling, but i believe riders are the near the bottom on the cycling ladder, UCI & ASO, the top rungs are enabling the doping. Teams insist on it in the pursuit of wins etc etc...

 

[Netserk]

Good article. Tx.



And there u have it. It's the reason riders like Clentadoppucci and Piti are the worst thing for cycling and should have been booted years ago.

By that logic you must hate Hesjedal, no?

 

[Tonton]

The notion of "better stuff" pops up often in these discussions. What is explained is GC leaders who later admit to doping, are using the same technology only maybe they respond better, or have found a combination that works wonders for them.

AND THEN the UCI doesn't sanction them despite the fact the doping they describe should create some kind of suspicious/positive values. Why some riders get preferential treatment by the UCI/ASO while others do not remains an unanswered question.

To be fair, we know cyclists have figured out there's a gaping hole in the biological passport for grand tours. (Horner, Armstrong values) Why the UCI hasn't closed it is another unanswered question.

Stokes has published a nice summary: http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/t...lysis-of-climbing-data-and-what-does-it-mean/

What I saw from everyone but Nibali was clean-ish. The Giro was cleaner still. However, I believe Testosterone and HGH are still being used as potent recovery therapy.

Excellent take. For the 'unanswered question', I'm starting to believe that UCI and ASO (the Don King of cycling) have an agenda: to turn cycling from sport into entertainment. Grow the market. Everyone profits: the Shimanos, bike makers, TVs... LA may have been the blue print . Then expand to the UK, revive France and South America, and go where the $ is: China. Hence the big story this year with the first Chinese in the TdF, blah blah blah. Conspiracy theory?

Thanks for the link. Clean-ish yes, except Nibali. Having the cops knock at the door on rest day probably helped

 

[hrotha]

Why is caught+unrepentant worse than not caught+unrepentant?

Because being caught is an excellent opportunity to admit your wrongdoings. Not doing so says a lot about a rider's moral character in my opinion.

Personally I'm more concerned with caught+purportedly repentant+still lying.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

why past tense?

Those getting away with it are the worst thing for cycling, but i believe riders are the near the bottom on the cycling ladder, UCI & ASO, the top rungs are enabling the doping. Teams insist on it in the pursuit of wins etc etc...

Because those getting away with it can still get caught! Like Menchov, a high profile doper who was publicly crucified ... err ... never mind

 

[stutue]

Interesting article. Essentially nothing to choose between Nibali 2014 and Froome 2013. What is really interesting is the differences in public reaction, both on here, at the roadside, and in the Tour press conferences. Massive hypocrisy and self-delusion at play? Or perhaps just the difference between a Tour that took place in the crucible of the Armstrong confession and a Tour that had a year's worth of amnesiac grace?

For what it is worth (which isn't much) I'm slightly more haunted by the apparent effortlessness with which Nibali managed his exertions compared to Froome. I don't really buy either performance and I'd like to see future GTs without either of them along with Contador, who I regard as little different to Armstrong despite the romanticism of him aired on this forum by some.

Overall, now that the dust has settled, the team performances of both Astana and Saxoff look ridiculous. The performance of Sky tells a story the script of which we don't yet know.

 

[acoggan]

Has this article been shared already? Apologies for the redundancy if it has.

http://www.fietsica.be/Tour2014.pdf

 

[Race Radio]

Interesting article. Essentially nothing to choose between Nibali 2014 and Froome 2013. What is really interesting is the differences in public reaction, both on here, at the roadside, and in the Tour press conferences. Massive hypocrisy and self-delusion at play?

Sure, some of that. There is also the fact that several of the more prolific posters here largely focus on causing conflict, not disusing the topic. They have little interest in the various matrix of performance but instead focus on baiting, twisting what is written, and invented claims. This makes discussion close to impossible.

 

[SeriousSam]

Because being caught is an excellent opportunity to admit your wrongdoings. Not doing so says a lot about a rider's moral character in my opinion.

At every single point in time of an athletes career is an admittance of wrongdoing more likely to be genuine than after they are caught.

It's the same thing with apologies in general. They aren't credible when they coincide with what the self-interested agent does.

 

[stutue]

Deep down I suspect many of us underestimate quite what a parallax world pro-cycling is. Doping busts, feigned outrage at the busted, ridiculous denials, insincere apologies and remorse.

It kind of amazes me that people like Landis get the hero treatment. Really, he's just as venal as the rest. Still wants his share of the ill-gotten gains.

 

[doperhopper]

Deep down I suspect many of us underestimate quite what a parallax world pro-cycling is. Doping busts, feigned outrage at the busted, ridiculous denials, insincere apologies and remorse.

It kind of amazes me that people like Landis get the hero treatment. Really, he's just as venal as the rest. Still wants his share of the ill-gotten gains.

also sprach ZaratKlassiker: Give them enough... jerseys back! (recommended by 12 of 23 TdF winners)

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Deep down I suspect many of us underestimate quite what a parallax world pro-cycling is. Doping busts, feigned outrage at the busted, ridiculous denials, insincere apologies and remorse.

It kind of amazes me that people like Landis get the hero treatment. Really, he's just as venal as the rest. Still wants his share of the ill-gotten gains.

I agree that for his initial transgressions Landis does not get a pass, but his whistle blowing has engendered him to a ton of people and since his 2010 e-mails to doping officials I think Floyd has been pretty honest and consistent. He really brought down LA and most people prefer Landis to Armstrong.

His change in perception is exactly the kind of parallax you are referring to.

 

[hrotha]

At every single point in time of an athletes career is an admittance of wrongdoing more likely to be genuine than after they are caught.

It's the same thing with apologies in general. They aren't credible when they coincide with what the self-interested agent does.

Really? Because 95% of the time, people only apologize when they're caught.

 

[stutue]

I don't believe he ratted out Lance because he thought what he and Lance did was immoral. As it stands he is now trying to win a hefty slice of money won by cheating.

Does he regret his own cheating? Probably not. When I hear the Mennonite stuff I just think cancer shield.

 

[Netserk]

At least he is honest about not regretting that he doped.