Most disappointing riders so far

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Got you El Pistolero, got you good.

So you think Clasica San Sebastian is a good comparison to the Ardennes classics in april.
Expect any stellar performances from Xavier Florencio then? Or what about good old Bertagnolli? And what about number 2 in the Bertagnolli-edition, Juan Manual Garate.
Also, I'm still waiting for Tino Zaballa to triple up in the Ardennes after his stellar win in Clasica San Sebastian in 2005, but it just didn't happen.
And ofcourse there's always Delage, 3rd in 2009, surely he'll mop things up next year.

Hahaha, using CSS as an example for people who should do well in the ardennes classics

And if you fail to see how Boom is much much stronger than last year, where he usually dissapeared from sight near the 200km border... then, wow, have you been watching at all?

 

[El Pistolero]

i am trying to study because i have a really difficult as f*ck exam next Friday. however, after reading some posts, i really need to step in and put some order here.

dekker tifosi, sometimes i disagree with you, but not in this topic. in my humble (godlike ) opinion rabo (in portuguese this word means *** BTW) is having a very nice season, especially if you consider "expectations".

expectation is very important here.for example: due to my own expectation, quickstep is having a very bad season, the same can be said about leopard trek.

as a team, leopard has failure written all over it. they have the strongest cyclist in the world, capable of podium 3 monuments without any tactic. just pure strength, fueled by his huge ego, ambition and the most amazing human powered motor that i ever seen. still, no team around him. i just hope he goes to another team. as my nick says, i am his fan. then they have the shlecks, great athletes, but not at canc's level at all. obviously canc's is giving them some nice results by himself, and is mostly thanks to him that leopard will give some results. will shlecks take care of our expectations? i don't think so.. and yes, 2nd and 3rd at liege and at the tour isn't enough. its a failure. keyword: expectations.

If they win the Tour then they've surely met expectations. Not every team forces the guy in the yellow jersey to leave in the final week.

 

[c&cfan]

Langeveld was stronger in the RvV of 2008. Way stronger.

Both Lulu and Barredo have won the Clasica San Sebastian. If that's no indication you can do well in the Ardennes classics then I don't know what is. Lulu was leader in Paris-Nice and I expected a lot more from him there as well. And Lulu at least could have done some domestique work for Rabo at the Ardennes, but he barely could even do that.

Lars Boom hasn't done anything out of the ordinary this season. Was there in the final of Paris-Roubaix this year, but then again, a lot of others were there as well. You're whole argument of Rabo doing so much better seems to come from the results at the cobbled classics. Think we all agree that the cobbled classics were very anti racing this season. They all rode against Fabian Cancellara who didn't have a good team. That's why a big breakaway group could survive this year and why the big guns didn't race full out. Langeveld's result this year might be better than in 2008, but he sure was stronger back then. I fail to see how he improved at the RvV.

Breschel of course has done nothing as well, but that's no one's fault.

Next year the cobbled classics will be totally different. Think Fabian learned his lesson this season. If not, then more fool him.

what about the hilly ones? what is your opinion in that?

mine is that most of the most disappointing riders earned that title in the hilly classics (besides gilbert that was amazing and earned the title of champion )

where are the hilly specialists? we only have gilbert, and kolobnev. that's no surprise that the guy was dominating this year. where are the bettinis boogerds rebellins etc? why just gilbert?

 

[El Pistolero]

Got you El Pistolero, got you good.

So you think Clasica San Sebastian is a good comparison to the Ardennes classics in april.
Expect any stellar performances from Xavier Florencio then? Or what about good old Bertagnolli? And what about number 2 in the Bertagnolli-edition, Juan Manual Garate.
Also, I'm still waiting for Tino Zaballa to triple up in the Ardennes after his stellar win in Clasica San Sebastian in 2005, but it just didn't happen.
And ofcourse there's always Delage, 3rd in 2009, surely he'll mop things up next year.

Hahaha, using CSS as an example for people who should do well in the ardennes classics

And if you fail to see how Boom is much much stronger than last year, where he usually dissapeared from sight near the 200km border... then, wow, have you been watching at all?

You seem to forget who Lulu beat at the Clasica San Sebastian. I also never said they would win any of them, I said do well in them.

And most races I watched Boom actually did disappeared at the sight of the 200km border.

1997 · Davide Rebellin
1998 · Francesco Casagrande
1999 · Francesco Casagrande
2000 · Erik Dekker
2001 · Laurent Jalabert
2002 · Laurent Jalabert
2003 · Paolo Bettini
2004 · Miguel Ángel Martín Perdiguero
2005 · Constantino Zaballa
2006 · Xavier Florencio
2007 · Leonardo Bertagnolli
2008 · Alejandro Valverde
2009 · Carlos Barredo
2010 · Luis León Sánchez

Bolded winners have already proven them self in the Ardennes classics. And last year Vinokourov was second. You know, the winner of LBL that year? Who came with good shape out of the Tour de France?

If you don't think Lulu's performance at CSS isn't an indication he could do well in the Ardennes with that form then your boy Lars Boom has no hope what so ever to ever come close to a classic win I'm afraid.

I've so far seen no indication that Lars Boom will ever come close to a classic win. He's already 25 years old, and I've yet to see a sparkle for him at the Monuments.

 

[c&cfan]

If they win the Tour then they've surely met expectations. Not every team forces the guy in the yellow jersey to leave in the final week.

they have in fabian someone that can put them really comfortable from very early. but when the time comes to battle with contador or even basso, can they beat them? will they be able to handle the pressure? i dont think so.. even if contador isn't there and basso is under-performing, i really don't see andy or frank (my bet as the strong brother this year) wining the tour. i don't think that they are tough enough.

 

[El Pistolero]

they have in fabian someone that can put them really comfortable from very early. but when the time comes to battle with contador or even basso, can they beat them? will they be able to handle the pressure? i dont think so.. even if contador isn't there and basso is under-performing, i really don't see andy or frank (my bet as the strong brother this year) wining the tour. i don't think that they are tough enough.

Trust me, without crashes or disease there's no way they'll lose.

Contador won't ride the Tour and if by any miracle he does then he'll be to tired anyway after that gruesome Giro.

 

[hrotha]

San Sebastian is decided on a not-so-steep, 8 km long climb. LBL is all about 1-2 km long steep hills. Of course you need to be able to climb to do well in either but they're as different as hilly classics can be.

 

[c&cfan]

Trust me, without crashes or disease there's no way they'll lose.

Contador won't ride the Tour and if by any miracle he does then he'll be to tired anyway after that gruesome Giro.

with all due respected, i can't do that.

why are you a contador fan? i am a contador fan not because of his talent (well that helps), because if that was the main reason, why not be andy's fan for example?

i am fan of contador because of 2007 and 2010 tour and 2008 giro. there, and after that, i saw someone that hasn't the best brain when it comes to tactics, but for sure has balls, has the heart of a champion. those performances make me believe in him if he is going to ride the tour.

if he is not, i really don't believe that the shlecks are going to loose because of basso's talent or something similar. they are going to loose because they don't have the balls that are needed to win or perform greatly when you are the man to beat.

 

[El Pistolero]

Andy Schleck is not Raymond Poulidor.

 

[c&cfan]

Andy Schleck is not Raymond Poulidor.

what do you mean?

i was trying to say that someone that has the pantani spirit of 98 can beat them, attacking before the final climb or something similar.

 

[El Pistolero]

what do you mean?

i was trying to say that someone that has the pantani spirit of 98 can beat them, attacking before the final climb or something similar.

Raymond Poulidor was second to Anquetil and a few times to Merckx. But he always sucked wheels and barely had the balls to attack.

While if you look at Andy Schleck this year, he attacked more than Contador. It's not like with the disappearance of Contador this year Andy will somehow suck like Poulidor did when he couldn't suck Anquetil's wheel.

Anquetil was once asked if Poulidor could win the Tour and he replied this

"Yeah, but only if I'm in the Tour. And Poulidor will never beat me."

 

[El Pistolero]

San Sebastian is decided on a not-so-steep, 8 km long climb. LBL is all about 1-2 km long steep hills. Of course you need to be able to climb to do well in either but they're as different as hilly classics can be.

True enough, but look at Greg van Avermaet If you can't follow on the steep parts with the big guns than you need to anticipate(like how Garate tried to do, but failed)

Lulu could definitely do what Greg did at LBL with even fresher legs. But he couldn't, he didn't have the legs so far in any race he started. Paris-Nice had an easy relatively long climb and even there he probably got dropped.

I'm really not dissing Rabo here. It's not their fault Lulu stuffs up. Seems to happen a lot to teams like Rabo, Quickstep and Lotto though. Countless of examples of decent cyclists not performing on their team. Is it the rider's fault or the team's? In Lulu's case, it's probably just his fault.

 

[c&cfan]

Raymond Poulidor was second to Anquetil and a few times to Merckx. But he always sucked wheels and barely had the balls to attack.

While if you look at Andy Schleck this year, he attacked more than Contador. It's not like with the disappearance of Contador this year Andy will somehow suck like Poulidor did when he couldn't suck Anquetil's wheel.

Anquetil was once asked if Poulidor could win the Tour and he replied this

"Yeah, but only if I'm in the Tour. And Poulidor will never beat me."

andy attacked more than contador this year? when?where? look at contador's palmares this season.

ending in 2nd place does not mean that andy sucks. however i never saw andy wining solo in a mountain finish in a important race. did you? i have the feeling (powered by what happened) that andy can only win if contador is in the tour. and andy can't beat contador.

 

[El Pistolero]

andy attacked more than contador this year? when?where? look at contador's palmares this season.

ending in 2nd place does not mean that andy sucks. however i never saw andy wining solo in a mountain finish in a important race. did you? i have the feeling (powered by what happened) that andy can only win if contador is in the tour. and andy can't beat contador.

I meant last year in the Tour. Andy attacked a lot more there than Contador, that's just a fact. Like I said, he's no Poulidor. Poulidor never attacked or always too late. Contador was riding defensively the whole Tour last year because he though he could count on his time trial. In the end he was lucky Schleck couldn't change gears.

Contador just seemed like a shadow of his former self that Tour. So without him this year Andy can definitely win. And he will without any bad luck. It's not like Basso has been doing anything this season.

If you take a look at the Giro this year, you just know it's not possible to do the double this year. The Giro will have harder competition and a harder course than the Tour this year.

 

[c&cfan]

I meant last year in the Tour. 1-Andy attacked a lot more there than Contador, that's just a fact. Like I said, he's no Poulidor. Poulidor never attacked or always too late. Contador was riding defensively the whole Tour last year because he though he could count on his time trial. In the end he was lucky Schleck couldn't change gears.

Contador just seemed like a shadow of his former self that Tour. So without him this year 2- Andy can definitely win. And he will without any bad luck. It's not like Basso has been doing anything this season.

3-If you take a look at the Giro this year, you just know it's not possible to do the double this year. The Giro will have harder competition and a harder course than the Tour this year.

1- contador wasn't at his best. he made ( the mistake) to many races to win before and he came already tired. he wasn't at his best level, still andy couldn't win solo a single time. however, even if conti isn't at his best but is close, i can't see him get dropped.

2- yes he can, especially if nobody attacks before the last climb and frank stays loyal (witch is just wrong). but if someone attacks before a la pantani 98, well, andy never showed some balls and he never won a MTF solo as a favourite.

3- yes, impossible for everyone, except "the most talented guy that ever raced a bike", contador.

 

[El Pistolero]

1- contador wasn't at his best. he made ( the mistake) to many races to win before and he came already tired. he wasn't at his best level, still andy couldn't win solo a single time. however, even if conti isn't at his best but is close, i can't see him get dropped.

2- yes he can, especially if nobody attacks before the last climb and frank stays loyal (witch is just wrong). but if someone attacks before a la pantani 98, well, andy never showed some balls and he never won a MTF solo as a favourite.

3- yes, impossible for everyone, except "the most talented guy that ever raced a bike", contador.

4. Contador will not be there at the Tour this year.

By the way, point 1 and 3 are contradictive.

As for point 2: well Contador won the Tour this year without winning any solo MTF. It's not needed to do so. And Andy's win at Tourmalet was practically solo as Contador just remained in his wheel the whole time. If he has no balls then no one he's going to face this year at the Tour will have them anyway. It's a moot point you have there. There's no Pantani in this peloton.

 

[c&cfan]

4. 1-Contador will not be there at the Tour this year.

2-By the way, point 1 and 3 are contradictive.

3-As for point 2: well Contador won the Tour this year without winning any solo MTF. It's not needed to do so. 4-And Andy's win at Tourmalet was practically solo as Contador just remained in his wheel the whole time. 5-If he has no balls then no one he's going to face this year at the Tour will have them anyway. It's a moot point you have there. There's no Pantani in this peloton.

1- most likely
2- not really, he still won the tour.
3- contador didn't had to win because he was much better in TTs.
4- andy was ahead in the climb, but contador let him win the sprint. otherwise he would have won.
5- i hope that you are wrong. the others don't have nothing to loose. for basso for example is win or loose. same with vino. they wont care about podiums. the one that i was thinking to do a pantani because of his descending skills, uphill kick and regular evolution is samu.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Again, you are talking only about some of your perceptions, not facts, and only digging for the negative (by comparing with 2009 results of LL Sanchez).

Now please try and compare the FACTS... because you still haven't replied to those. The actual results in all of those races are BETTER. In some cases even WAY better...

Please, please, reply to that. Or just concede you were wrong. Because pretty much everyone sees it but you. You are worse than Louis van Gaal for crying out loud

Seriously Pistolero, they did better than 2010 in pretty much every race except Milan-San Remo. That's just a fact.

this.

look at all his posts in the thread, he makes no sense. Even contradicts himself.
Clearly just looking to troll.

You have to be a fool to not accept rabo are having a much better start to the season. Even if el pickle doesn't think so I am sure the team prefers 3rd and 5th places to 41st. And those results are common in most stage races also. Plus they have roughly double the total wins.

he also suggest that who cares about comparison to last year, lol who do you think made the comparison first;

And compared to last year, they've been disappointing.

wrong.

you're like a little boy who can't accept your wrong.

And yeah they were awful at agr. yet I'm sure they prefer 3 in the top 10 compared to none last year.

 

[c&cfan]

this.

look at all his posts in the thread, he makes no sense. Even contradicts himself.
Clearly just looking to troll.

You have to be a fool to not accept rabo are having a much better start to the season. Even if el pickle doesn't think so I am sure the team prefers 3rd and 5th places to 41st. And those results are common in most stage races also. Plus they have roughly double the total wins.

he also suggest that who cares about comparison to last year, lol who do you think made the comparison first;


wrong.

you're like a little boy who can't accept your wrong.

And yeah they were awful at agr. yet I'm sure they prefer 3 in the top 10 compared to none last year.

do you know what your nick means? i know that is about rabobank, but in portuguese, rabo means a-ss. lol

about your post, you are right. still rabo's season is still just medium level if you ask me. i know that the results are important, but for example: canc's 3rd at RVV was very different than rabo's 3rd at roubaix. and as a big team, they should animate more races. you guys need another boogerd, another jan raas, and the other guy (tour winner or contender) whose name i don't remember. but he was good. lol

 

[Eric8-A]

Taylor Phinney: Not so much on his performance but injuries, so I don't think he'd count.

Andre Greipel: So far one victory right? Could he still be getting used to the change of teams? Hopefully he'll get better once the Tour starts.

Tyler Farrar: Is there any rider in the peloton that can not beat him?

 

[c&cfan]

Taylor Phinney: Not so much on his performance but injuries, so I don't think he'd count.

Andre Greipel: So far one victory right? Could he still be getting used to the change of teams? Hopefully he'll get better once the Tour starts.

Tyler Farrar: Is there any rider in the peloton that can not beat him?

i totally forgot about those guys! still the GTs can make their seasons really great. please include petachi and cav to that list. (and ciolek)

 

[danjo007]

oh please c&cfan, you're the most disappointing so far..

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

do you know what your nick means? i know that is about rabobank, but in portuguese, rabo means a-ss. lol

about your post, you are right. still rabo's season is still just medium level if you ask me. i know that the results are important, but for example: canc's 3rd at RVV was very different than rabo's 3rd at roubaix. and as a big team, they should animate more races. you guys need another boogerd, another jan raas, and the other guy (tour winner or contender) whose name i don't remember. but he was good. lol

in truth i regret my nick.
I don't really care about rabo, I mean i like what they attempt to do for dutch cycling, but I care about dutch riders not the team. I'd rather see a dutch rider from another team win then friere or LLS. In fact I could probably care less what those guys do (except I like martens and matthews so I do like seeing them do well. But it is similar to me liking riders from other teams also.. i.e gilbert)

oh and you doesn't like As$

 

[c&cfan]

oh please c&cfan, you're the most disappointing so far..

why?

eibicidi

 

[c&cfan]

in truth i regret my nick.
I don't really care about rabo, I mean i like what they attempt to do for dutch cycling, but I care about dutch riders not the team. I'd rather see a dutch rider from another team win then friere or LLS. In fact I could probably care less what those guys do (except I like martens and matthews so I do like seeing them do well. But it is similar to me liking riders from other teams also.. i.e gilbert)

oh and you doesn't like As$

at least you had boogerd and you can still see gesink (a rider with lots of talent).

i had hopes in paulinho regarding his hilly classics potential (look what happened)

azevedo was just a pawn and a dirty one (and he rode for benfica).

cardoso will never deliver at the big ones i suppose.

i can only put my faith in machado. (let's wait for rui costa and nelson oliveira).