Most Farcical Tour Ever?

[thehog]

+1

I think there has been one too many big names to have been busted for these guys to take crazy risks anymore. I mean even the master escape artist Armstrong is finally going to go down. Cycling really has turned a corner and the guys with a real big talent and racing clean are coming to the top (Wiggins/Froome).

If we just saw clean cycling I'd hate to see what doped cycling looks like!

1-2-5 in the final time trial after riding on the front fort 2.5 weeks decimating the field.

2 best climbers, 2 best time trialers, 2 best doms and even EBH after going for stage wins in week one, riding on the front for two weeks gets himself into a break and attacks!

Wow. That's clean? I'd hate to see what dirty looks like.

 

[The Cobra]

I agree with this, but it only explains why Leipheimer/Vino/Scarponi/Valverde are getting dropped by the GC group.

i mean, there's no doubt that Jingleheimer is off the gear and that's why he was so horrendous. but then there's guys like Porte and Rogers riding tempo on a finishing climb and shelling off all but 4 other guys, what's the explanation for that? how are they all of a sudden able to not only climb with guys they would have had no business climbing with even last season, but now are able to ride so hard for so long that they prevent them from attacking at all?

people mention Liquigas doing the same thing at the Giro, but it didn't work. Szmyd was useless in the 3rd week, as he should be after drilling at the front for an entire week of climbing. and Basso ended up isolated pretty early even in the 2nd week.

Rogers was ill all last season.

Porte got a top ten in the 2010 Giro in his grand tour debut. In 2011 he was called up to the Giro last minute and was in no sort of form with that much notice to put in a decent ride. He then went to the Tour where everyone bar Contador who did the Giro went on to have a shocking Tour. Porte is a class act who was mismanaged by Riis last season. No one really knows what he is capable of.

Based on what I've seen if those two had been leaders on different teams they would be battling to make the top 10. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

 

[The Cobra]

With the Rabobank dope doctor plus Rogers and Porte right there beside them...

Dont remember reading of any reported sightings of Gert at the Tour or did I miss that one.

 

[Digger]

Rogers was ill all last season.

Porte got a top ten in the 2010 Giro in his grand tour debut. In 2011 he was called up to the Giro last minute and was in no sort of form with that much notice to put in a decent ride. He then went to the Tour where everyone bar Contador who did the Giro went on to have a shocking Tour. Porte is a class act who was mismanaged by Riis last season. No one really knows what he is capable of.

Based on what I've seen if those two had been leaders on different teams they would be battling to make the top 10. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Porte is riding better than with Riis...do you honestly think he wasn't on a programme with Riis?

Rogers is riding as well as 2006 and Freiburg.

 

[Digger]

Dont remember reading of any reported sightings of Gert at the Tour or did I miss that one.

Well we all know how important doctors are beforehand...did Ferrari show up at the tour?

 

[sniper]

I can't see why Big Pharma would do such business with athletes. The risk of getting involved in some juicy scandal with celeb atheletes over a few thousand vials of NeoRecormon is just too big compared with the gains. Saleswise, the epo/hgh consumption of the pro athletes is a drop in the ocean compared to the consumption of the patients with renal failure.
Next, doing giving some phase I/II drugs to the athletes for testing is a waste of time. You'll never get good quality data usable in research back from cyclists. Too many unknown variables in that equation (using other drugs, missing doses, changes in training/race schedule etc. etc.). And don't expect pro cyclists to come a Swiss lab once a week for blood sampling in an illegitimate protocol.
If Big Pharma would want to get dirty and try out new drugs in shady phase I/II trials, they find a nice hospital with some easygoing doctors in a nice, warm African/Asian/LAtin American country with regulatory authoroties willing to look away.
Big Pharma are probably dirty in some aspects but pro atheletes make poor guniea pigs and the market is small.

and I do clinical trials and medicine for a living....

thanks for elaborating.
i thought the comment was interesting, but I fully acknowledge that the guy may have been full of crap.

 

[BroDeal]

Dont remember reading of any reported sightings of Gert at the Tour or did I miss that one.

Dr. Ferrari did not follow Postal around the Tour. The real preparation is done before the Tour.

 

[The Cobra]

Porte is riding better than with Riis...do you honestly think he wasn't on a programme with Riis?

Rogers is riding as well as 2006 and Freiburg.

Not really surprising Porte is riding better now than with Riis since he was a neo pro back then. Program, really? For his neo pro's? When was the last time someone riding for Riis went positive? Doesn't add up sorry.

I expect Rogers to add a fourth ITT worlds to palmares with all this hype he's getting in the clinic. Do you reckon its worth a bet?

 

[Anonymous]

I get it - it's difficult to believe.

But the difficult to believe label doesn't do it for me ... because having been involved in high performance sport I have seen people do apparently unbelievable things (without doping), I have done unbelievable things (without doping) ... it's the nature of sport, it's the nature of high performance in sport.

Yeah, this is almost exactly the same ting I said in the Lance years.

Time will tell I guess (hope).

 

[The Hitch]

OK so he came from nowhere before the Vuelta - agreed (I don't think that's what was meant by the original post but OK)

AND to be clear I am far less confident of Froome's pedegree than that of Wiggins ... I don't think believing that BW is racing clean is the same as believing in Father Christmas or Unicorns or whatever. Just listen to the bloke ... not just his words ... this guy is being authentic and honest. He's one of the good guys. IMHO and I get why people are skeptics (of course they have every right to be) BUT the problem is that there ain't much insentive for others to ride clean if they are going to get slammed anyway!

T

Wiggins is being authentic and honest? When he was crap he had no problem accusing everyone else of doping. Now that he is good he suddenly starts worshiping Lance and dismissing his former allies as (well we all know the 2 words he used by now)

What an honest person

 

[taiwan]

I can't see why Big Pharma would do such business with athletes. The risk of getting involved in some juicy scandal with celeb atheletes over a few thousand vials of NeoRecormon is just too big compared with the gains. Saleswise, the epo/hgh consumption of the pro athletes is a drop in the ocean compared to the consumption of the patients with e.g. renal failure.

Next, giving some phase I/II drugs to the athletes for testing is a waste of time. You'll never get good quality data usable in research back from cyclists. Too many unknown variables in that equation (using other drugs, missing doses, changes in training/race schedule etc. etc.). And don't expect pro cyclists to come a Swiss lab once a week for blood sampling in an illegitimate protocol.

If Big Pharma wants to get dirty and try out new drugs in shady phase I/II trials, they find a nice hospital with some easygoing doctors in a nice, warm African/Asian/LAtin American country with regulatory bodies willing to look the other way.
Big Pharma are probably dirty in some aspects but pro atheletes make poor guniea pigs and the market is small.

and I do clinical trials and medicine for a living....

The one way I could see it working - if teams were paying $$$ for exclusive/undetectable/cutting edge products. Combination of paragraphs 1 and 2. Because it doesn't matter that the market is small if they pay enough of a premium, and it could be a worthwhile outlay for the team if they could afford it. I'd just doubt a cycling team could have the sort of money to pique the interest of a big pharmaceutical company.

The risk of getting caught depends on... the risk of getting caught.

 

[BYOP88]

Rogers was ill all last season.

Porte got a top ten in the 2010 Giro in his grand tour debut. In 2011 he was called up to the Giro last minute and was in no sort of form with that much notice to put in a decent ride. He then went to the Tour where everyone bar Contador who did the Giro went on to have a shocking Tour. Porte is a class act who was mismanaged by Riis last season. No one really knows what he is capable of.

Based on what I've seen if those two had been leaders on different teams they would be battling to make the top 10. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Regarding Porte, he gained alot of time in the break which enabled him to finish top 10 in that Giro.

 

[sniper]

"Los que dicen que este Tour es aburrido son los mismos que aseguran que todo el mundo está dopado".
"También lo dijeron de los Tours de Armstrong y algunos fueron espectaculares. Creo que el ciclismo ha cambiado, que ya no se pueden hacer ataques a la Pantani, a 200 kilómetros de la meta en montaña. El ciclismo es diferente, pero también es más humano".

Those who say this tour was boring are the same who say everybody dopes. They also said it about the tours won by Armstrong even though some were spectacular. I believe cycling has changed, and that it is no longer possible to attack a la Pantani. Cycling is different now, but also more humane.

http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/noticias/durísimas-palabras-de-wiggins-ganar-tour-202043384.html

 

[The Cobra]

Regarding Porte, he gained alot of time in the break which enabled him to finish top 10 in that Giro.

True, but he also put in some noteworthy performances in the mountains and TT's to suggest he could be destined for bigger things in the future.

 

[180mmCrank]

Yeah, this is almost exactly the same ting I said in the Lance years.

Time will tell I guess (hope).

Yes I guess it will

 

[180mmCrank]

Wiggins is being authentic and honest? When he was crap he had no problem accusing everyone else of doping. Now that he is good he suddenly starts worshiping Lance and dismissing his former allies as (well we all know the 2 words he used by now)

What an honest person

I genuinely might be missing something but how is he worshiping Lance?

AND the outburst (including the language) can be represented as supporting either perspective about his doping or not. To me it sounded authentic but I get that to others it might be interpreted differently.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

The biggest problem with this years Tour is you have a large bunch of riders who never should have been there. These riders were chemical inventions, They never should have stood on podiums let alone been leaders of a team focused around them.

We started the Tour with a normal list of 20-40 riders who would animate the race. it turns 20 of those riders got their skill through a needle. Instead of having a bunch of animators we had a bunch of guys struggling to hang on to a group that is climbing 10% slower then 10 years ago.

Time for those guys to retire and let riders with talent that does not come in a needle have some time

Time gaps are ridiculously huge.

1 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling 84:26:31
2 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:03:21
3 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:06:19
4 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Lotto Belisol Team 0:10:15
5 Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 0:11:04
6 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) RadioShack-Nissan 0:15:43
7 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:15:51
8 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:16:31
9 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana Pro Team 0:16:38
10 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat 0:17:17
11 Andreas Klöden (Ger) RadioShack-Nissan 0:17:54
12 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:19:33
13 Christopher Horner (USA) RadioShack-Nissan 0:19:55
14 Chris Anker Sörensen (Den) Team Saxo Bank 0:25:27
15 Denis Menchov (Rus) Katusha Team 0:27:22
16 Maxime Monfort (Bel) RadioShack-Nissan 0:28:30
17 Egoi Martinez De Esteban (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:31:46
18 Rui Alberto Faria Da Costa (Por) Movistar Team 0:37:03
19 Eduard Vorganov (Rus) Katusha Team 0:38:16
20 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Movistar Team 0:42:26

I think the race as a whole is cleaner than it's been since I don't know when. But the top 3 aren't climbing slower than the top GT riders have in the past 3-4 years, barring Contador and A.Schleck, are they?

 

[Darryl Webster]

Strong condender for most farcical GT win ever , Moser,s Giro in 84, complete with assisting helicopter in the final TT :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKkbMuc_W5g

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Porte is riding better than with Riis...do you honestly think he wasn't on a programme with Riis?

Rogers is riding as well as 2006 and Freiburg.

But Telekom wasn´t the only team on a program. So i don´t see a reason why Rogers (w/lower power numbers) shouldn´t be as well placed today (since the whole peloton has lower power numbers).

Porte was called up just days before the Giro, then doing an exhausted TdF-Double. He was a good TTler before and finished Top-10 at the Giro before...

 

[roundabout]

The second half of the 2004 Vuelta.

Followed by one of the least surprising positives. Ever.

 

[BroDeal]

But Telekom wasn´t the only team on a program. So i don´t see a reason why Rogers (w/lower power numbers) shouldn´t be as well placed today (since the whole peloton has lower power numbers).

Porte was called up just days before the Giro, then doing an exhausted TdF-Double. He was a good TTler before and finished Top-10 at the Giro before...

He finished top ten by getting in a break then steadily losing time to the rest of the contenders.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Strong condender for most farcical GT win ever , Moser,s Giro in 84, complete with assisting helicopter in the final TT :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKkbMuc_W5g

That one i agree. It´s talked about at lengths in Fignon´s book. They made sure he won´t win (cutting mountain stages, aiding Moser´s TT, alliances vs. Fignon).

 

[roundabout]

Not really surprising Porte is riding better now than with Riis since he was a neo pro back then. Program, really? For his neo pro's? When was the last time someone riding for Riis went positive? Doesn't add up sorry.

I expect Rogers to add a fourth ITT worlds to palmares with all this hype he's getting in the clinic. Do you reckon its worth a bet?

I dunno. Considering how much Porte struggled in Paris-Nice that year it was quite a transformation in Romandie and in the Giro. It certainly made me wonder.

 

[The Hitch]

I genuinely might be missing something but how is he worshiping Lance?

AND the outburst (including the language) can be represented as supporting either perspective about his doping or not. To me it sounded authentic but I get that to others it might be interpreted differently.

In and of its own it may be authentic. but when you consider that in 2007 Wiggins said that one should be sceptical about the winners of the next 6 Tours (including 2012) and now he has turned his position 180 degrees and refuses to even speak about the issue, well that is very dishonest.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But Telekom wasn´t the only team on a program. So i don´t see a reason why Rogers (w/lower power numbers) shouldn´t be as well placed today (since the whole peloton has lower power numbers).

This point makes sense; if the whole péloton cleans up by 10% then a Mick Rogers who has cleaned up by 10% should be in approximately the same position as before.

It only has one problem - Mick Rogers himself bleating that he put out his best ever numbers on PdBF.