Most memorable doped perfomances?

[topt]

I mean the lesson here is that we can find significance in any data point depending on how we interpret them. If a rider we like has a good performance out of the blue and then falls off early the next day, we can say "Look, he's tired after going all out yesterday, he's not doping". If we don't like him, we can point and say "Oh look, he's bad again, that makes yesterday even weirder, he must have been doping".

I think in GTs that should be quite normal for domestiques

 

[madthebad]

I honestly think McNulty yesterday was more suspicious than Van Aert today. Van Aert might have been even stronger, especially taking into account the rest of this Tour, but at least he was always known as an exceptional talent, has won a TdF mountain stage before and has been impressive this entire race. McNulty was completely anonymous this entire Tour before pulling off an all time great climbing performance. Those one off performances have always been the most suspicious to me and that was one of the craziest ones I can remember.

McNulty was nowhere to be seen for 2 weeks in this TDF and had 1 great day and a couple of decent ones.
Van Aert on the other hand went full gas since stage 1, was everywhere controlling everyone in breakaways, intermediate sprints, bunch sprints, winning stages, babysitting Vingegaard on flat stages, on cobbles stages, in the mountains and in the end to top it all he drops freakin Pogacar on Hautacam, a HC climb after riding and pulling in the breakaway and still finished 3rd on the stage in front of the rest of the GC and all this after 3 weeks of hard racing in the fastest TDF in history.

 

[roundabout]

I think Van Aert was genuinely stronger on the last stage than during any other break in this Tour.

 

[Ripper]

I'm just meaning in terms of the endless breakaways and day after day recovery in the queen stages to be that far down on GC and still stand out that much for crazy, not comparing their previous pedigrees. And besides, van Aert has stood out more than the Mekon did in '08 to match his superior pedigree.

What has certainly caught my eye with Wout is the almost daily insanity. Even today, if it was on its own, would not have stood out too me too much (absolutely noticeable, but not by itself completely insane ... at least right now in my addled brain). But the day after day breaks, the team pulls, the thermonuclear first week, and now this sort of stuff in week 3. Really digging deep into that suitcase of courage for the team.

 

[Ripper]

we are missing you in the alpha mutant thread

Which one? There are a few choices!

 

[topt]

Which one? There are a few choices!

there is only one ALPHA mutant

 

[PhiLiz]

I honestly think McNulty yesterday was more suspicious than Van Aert today. Van Aert might have been even stronger, especially taking into account the rest of this Tour, but at least he was always known as an exceptional talent, has won a TdF mountain stage before and has been impressive this entire race. McNulty was completely anonymous this entire Tour before pulling off an all time great climbing performance. Those one off performances have always been the most suspicious to me and that was one of the craziest ones I can remember.

So, what he needs to do now is destroy everyone at some future GT to make him less suspicious...

 

[hfer07]

I can't wait to check this thread if Poga pulls a "2020 upset" on Vingeggard in the last ITT

 

[Salvarani]

I mean the lesson here is that we can find significance in any data point depending on how we interpret them. If a rider we like has a good performance out of the blue and then falls off early the next day, we can say "Look, he's tired after going all out yesterday, he's not doping". If we don't like him, we can point and say "Oh look, he's bad again, that makes yesterday even weirder, he must have been doping".

McNulty couldnt pull for very long yesterday and maybe Pog even had to attack earlier then expected. McNulty basically stopped at very first attack and didnt come back. He was tired.

Bjerg was very tired as well.

At least, they make it seem believable. In contrary to the other team.

 

[Luthor]

I did, and AGAIN the watts were nothing special, last climb was something like 5.7w/kg

He did 6.6 w/kg on Azet for 22 minutes, which is where he broke the record and dropped the others. The plan was for Pog to attack early, not on the last climb. The fact that he can still pace Peyragudes at 6.3 w/kg after destroying everyone on Azet is ridiculous. Not sure where did you get 5.7 w/kg, that's obviously false.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549836828274003968

View: https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1549836828274003968


McNulty did a 57 min pull while Van Aert did a 4 min one, it's not even close to comparable.

 

[topt]

He did 6.6 w/kg on Azet for 22 minutes, which is where he broke the record and dropped the others. The plan was for Pog to attack early, not on the last climb. The fact that he can still pace Peyragudes at 6.3 w/kg after destroying everyone on Azet is ridiculous. Not sure where did you get 5.7 w/kg, that's obviously false.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549836828274003968

View: https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1549836828274003968


McNulty did a 57 min pull while Van Aert did a 4 min one, it's not even close to comparable.

he did 398W on Peyragudes

 

[Cookster15]

I have to come to the clinic to understand the Tour result. I simply cannot accept Vingegaard’s TT yesterday. And today I have come to the conclusion that many fans of the sport would be happy following WWF wrestling. What a joke that was.

 

[zlev11]

he did 398W on Peyragudes

this is irrelevant. maybe he ate 398 bananas too, but he still did 6.4w/kg for about 45 minutes. that's what the climbing times say your power/weight needs to be to go that fast. that is so far off the charts from other climbing performances for the past 20 years (other than a few others ones in this tour) that i dont think people currently truly understand how crazy it is.

rather than saying "this guy shouldn't be doing this because it doesn't seem like he should be able to" you can simply look at the numbers and realize that nobody in the history of earth should be doing those numbers if they are clean.

 

[topt]

this is irrelevant. maybe he ate 398 bananas too, but he still did 6.4w/kg for about 45 minutes. that's what the climbing times say your power/weight needs to be to go that fast. that is so far off the charts from other climbing performances for the past 20 years (other than a few others ones in this tour) that i dont think people currently truly understand how crazy it is.

rather than saying "this guy shouldn't be doing this because it doesn't seem like he should be able to" you can simply look at the numbers and realize that nobody in the history of earth should be doing those numbers if they are clean.

who told he did 6,4 ? Do you know his weight

 

[zlev11]

who told he did 6,4 ? Do you know his weight

6.6 for 24min and 6.3 for 20min, we dont need his weight when we have the climbing time

 

[red_flanders]

6.6 for 24min and 6.3 for 20min, we dont need his weight when we have the climbing time

This is going to sound dumb, but how do people know the watts? Don't believe anyone knows the actual rider weights, so I don't get that part either. But you're saying you can know watts per kilo without knowing the kilos? I don't get it.

Background, I don't accept what teams or riders say WRT rider weight, it's long been the most gamed stat in cycling to cover up ridiculous performances and throw off competition. I guess if you accept stated values you can start to make an analysis, but for obvious reasons riders are often stated at the wrong weight. Many former riders and team DS have commented in the past about how this number is gamed historically.

 

[Ricco']

This is going to sound dumb, but how do people know the watts? Don't believe anyone knows the actual rider weights, so I don't get that part either. But you're saying you can know watts per kilo without knowing the kilos? I don't get it.

Background, I don't accept what teams or riders say WRT rider weight, it's long been the most gamed stat in cycling to cover up ridiculous performances and throw off competition. I guess if you accept stated values you can start to make an analysis, but for obvious reasons riders are often stated at the wrong weight. Many former riders and team DS have commented in the past about how this number is gamed historically.

The famous Ferrari formula

https://www.chronoswatts.com/img/mag/P_142-143_Science_en.pdf

It fails to consider some aspects which vary from climb to climb and rider to rider as wind, surface roughness, changes in equipment, etc.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

6.6 for 24min and 6.3 for 20min, we dont need his weight when we have the climbing time

No offense but you're taking the Mihai tweets for face value who has a record of overestimating those values.
McNulty uploads his watts on Strava and if he suddenly isn't 62kg he didn't do 6.3 on Peyragudes (and also not 6.6 before).

For the record, I still think his performance is fishy same as how WVA is the most dubious in the current Peleton but neither belong into this thread.

 

[zlev11]

No offense but you're taking the Mihai tweets for face value who has a record of overestimating those values.
McNulty uploads his watts on Strava and if he suddenly isn't 62kg he didn't do 6.3 on Peyragudes (and also not 6.6 before).

For the record, I still think his performance is fishy same as how WVA is the most dubious in the current Peleton but neither belong into this thread.

i hate to tell you this but there's no way the watts on his strava are accurate. im not even saying that it's malicious on his part either, they may tinker with it to not give away their actual performance to the rest of the sport.

but yes, all of these guys use the Ferrari formula. power to weight is power to weight no matter how big you are. to do the times he did you need to have a certain power to weight number, it's as simple as that.

 

[42x16ss]

This is going to sound dumb, but how do people know the watts? Don't believe anyone knows the actual rider weights, so I don't get that part either. But you're saying you can know watts per kilo without knowing the kilos? I don't get it.

Background, I don't accept what teams or riders say WRT rider weight, it's long been the most gamed stat in cycling to cover up ridiculous performances and throw off competition. I guess if you accept stated values you can start to make an analysis, but for obvious reasons riders are often stated at the wrong weight. Many former riders and team DS have commented in the past about how this number is gamed historically.

I suspect that the weight numbers used are accurate - when the riders were at pre season training camp

 

[topt]

6.6 for 24min and 6.3 for 20min, we dont need his weight when we have the climbing time

Christ man, delete this before anyone else can see it

 

[zlev11]

Christ man, delete this before anyone else can see it

reading comprehension is not your strongest quality i guess

 

[topt]

This is going to sound dumb, but how do people know the watts? Don't believe anyone knows the actual rider weights, so I don't get that part either. But you're saying you can know watts per kilo without knowing the kilos? I don't get it.

Background, I don't accept what teams or riders say WRT rider weight, it's long been the most gamed stat in cycling to cover up ridiculous performances and throw off competition. I guess if you accept stated values you can start to make an analysis, but for obvious reasons riders are often stated at the wrong weight. Many former riders and team DS have commented in the past about how this number is gamed historically.

watts are on Strava, we dont know the weight; what we do know is he did 398W on Peyeresurde; Mcnulty sure as hell isnt lighter than Pog so the 6,4 claims are wrong, the guy is closer to 70kg than 62

 

[topt]

reading comprehension is not your strongest quality i guess

you do understang how we calculate W/kg dont you ?

 

[PhiLiz]

I suspect that the weight numbers used are accurate - when the riders were at pre season training camp

That may be true, but in that case it's more likely that they're lighter in competition, not heavier. Which would actually increase w/kg.