Motor doping thread

[Tienus]

Re:

agreed, we should question Cookson's/UCI's motives, not eachother's.

so back on topic:
Femke's photo and name (she's the first name listed if you scroll down abit) is still on the frontpage of the Kleur op Maat NODRUGS cycling team website:
http://nodrugs.be/teams-riders/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-ladies-cyclocross-team/
Have the team made any kind of statement? is she provisionally suspended?

http://www.rtv.be/artikels/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-teleurgesteld-poulain-van-den-driessche-a21165

There are also multiple statements and updates on the Kleur op maat FB page. They seem to be open and transparant.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

agreed, we should question Cookson's/UCI's motives, not eachother's.

so back on topic:
Femke's photo and name (she's the first name listed if you scroll down abit) is still on the frontpage of the Kleur op Maat NODRUGS cycling team website:
http://nodrugs.be/teams-riders/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-ladies-cyclocross-team/
Have the team made any kind of statement? is she provisionally suspended?

http://www.rtv.be/artikels/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-teleurgesteld-poulain-van-den-driessche-a21165

There are also multiple statements and updates on the Kleur op maat FB page. They seem to be open and transparant.

So the team manager claims that Femke had her own 'entourage' and own mechanics.
Is this a plausible story in your view?
Could Femke have had her own mechanics who had nothing to do with other riders on the team?

 

[rainman]

Do the Belgian police have the authority to investigate as would be the case with regular doping?

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re: Re:

agreed, we should question Cookson's/UCI's motives, not eachother's.

so back on topic:
Femke's photo and name (she's the first name listed if you scroll down abit) is still on the frontpage of the Kleur op Maat NODRUGS cycling team website:
http://nodrugs.be/teams-riders/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-ladies-cyclocross-team/
Have the team made any kind of statement? is she provisionally suspended?

http://www.rtv.be/artikels/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-teleurgesteld-poulain-van-den-driessche-a21165

There are also multiple statements and updates on the Kleur op maat FB page. They seem to be open and transparant.

So the team manager claims that Femke had her own 'entourage' and own mechanics.
Is this a plausible story in your view?
Could Femke have had her own mechanics who had nothing to do with other riders on the team?

That's pretty much the case for most cross riders I think, usually family or friends taking care of the bikes

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

agreed, we should question Cookson's/UCI's motives, not eachother's.

so back on topic:
Femke's photo and name (she's the first name listed if you scroll down abit) is still on the frontpage of the Kleur op Maat NODRUGS cycling team website:
http://nodrugs.be/teams-riders/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-ladies-cyclocross-team/
Have the team made any kind of statement? is she provisionally suspended?

http://www.rtv.be/artikels/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-teleurgesteld-poulain-van-den-driessche-a21165

There are also multiple statements and updates on the Kleur op maat FB page. They seem to be open and transparant.

So the team manager claims that Femke had her own 'entourage' and own mechanics.
Is this a plausible story in your view?
Could Femke have had her own mechanics who had nothing to do with other riders on the team?

Either way, the Belgian federation is very suspicious in all of this. Either they knew all along and did nothing, or they helped protecting the rider(s) and even equipped them with these motors.

 

[Benotti69]

Lemond built a 'moto' bike last year and rode it to top of D'Huez

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/motors-in-bikes-greg-lemonds-six-ways-to-eradicate-mechanical-doping/

Sadly Lemond thinks WADA is part of a solution!

 

[GJB123]

Re: Re:

agreed, we should question Cookson's/UCI's motives, not eachother's.

so back on topic:
Femke's photo and name (she's the first name listed if you scroll down abit) is still on the frontpage of the Kleur op Maat NODRUGS cycling team website:
http://nodrugs.be/teams-riders/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-ladies-cyclocross-team/
Have the team made any kind of statement? is she provisionally suspended?

http://www.rtv.be/artikels/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-teleurgesteld-poulain-van-den-driessche-a21165

There are also multiple statements and updates on the Kleur op maat FB page. They seem to be open and transparant.

So the team manager claims that Femke had her own 'entourage' and own mechanics.
Is this a plausible story in your view?
Could Femke have had her own mechanics who had nothing to do with other riders on the team?

In cyclocross this is very normal. If you have ever followed you would know it is generally the case that even in larger teams the riders work with their own entourage. This is a small team and an under-23 female contestant, so I would be surprised if they were in any way as organized as let's day continental road race teams.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Lemond built a 'moto' bike last year and rode it to top of D'Huez

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/motors-in-bikes-greg-lemonds-six-ways-to-eradicate-mechanical-doping/

Sadly Lemond thinks WADA is part of a solution!

Agree that WADA is no part of the solution.
Apart from that, however, it's a pretty good interview, thanks for linking it.
Explicitly accusing Cookson of acting too late and too little, despite knowing about the problem already in 2013 (i.e. Cookson's first year).
Lemond can't call Cookson a fraud, but that's what it comes down to. Money first, fair play second.

And some excellent ideas from Lemond, to be honest.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

agreed, we should question Cookson's/UCI's motives, not eachother's.

so back on topic:
Femke's photo and name (she's the first name listed if you scroll down abit) is still on the frontpage of the Kleur op Maat NODRUGS cycling team website:
http://nodrugs.be/teams-riders/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-ladies-cyclocross-team/
Have the team made any kind of statement? is she provisionally suspended?

http://www.rtv.be/artikels/kleur-op-maat-nodrugs-teleurgesteld-poulain-van-den-driessche-a21165

There are also multiple statements and updates on the Kleur op maat FB page. They seem to be open and transparant.

So the team manager claims that Femke had her own 'entourage' and own mechanics.
Is this a plausible story in your view?
Could Femke have had her own mechanics who had nothing to do with other riders on the team?

In cyclocross this is very normal. If you have ever followed you would know it is generally the case that even in larger teams the riders work with their own entourage. This is a small team and an under-23 female contestant, so I would be surprised if they were in any way as organized as let's day continental road race teams.

Thanks, yeah, gun ho sun made a similar point above. Makes sense.

Which raises several questions about how to punish a motor-positive.
You think UCI should go for a case-by-case assessment of how & whom to punish?
I would probably agree with that, although it would complicate matters terribly.
Whenever a rider gets caught, people from his/her entourage will be lying left right and centre about their involvement. So police must get involved. Interrogations, lie detectors. Confiscations, search warrants.
I'm all for that, but not sure if UCI will go there. They've proven themselves to be terribly reactionary.

 

[GJB123]

Suspend the rider and the whole entourage. In case of cyclocross that means a more limited number of people get punished than in case of a WT team, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. A fine for her team would be in order I guess but not for being involved per say, but for not being diligent enough.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Suspend the rider and the whole entourage. In case of cyclocross that means a more limited number of people get punished than in case of a WT team, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. A fine for her team would be in order I guess but not for being involved per say, but for not being diligent enough.

agreed, but how to define "entourage".
"ban the team" is surely more easy to integrate in the rule book than "ban the entourage".

 

[Cloxxki]

Re: Re:

agreed, but how to define "entourage".
"ban the team" is surely more easy to integrate in the rule book than "ban the entourage".

Well the dad is already awaiting criminal trial for animal theft.
He's making a point of taking charge and lying, so he should be out for life.

The brother already is sitting out an EPO ban of 2 years. If he as much as cleans his sister's bikes or offers her riding tips or joins on her training rides, that's it, ban him for life.

This Nico ex rider fellow, ban for life from attending sports events for being a fraud trafficker and lying about it, taking blame for Femke's violation so she can duck her frightful sanction.

Which leaves the rider in question. 4 years for the violations, 2 years for doing it too obviously forcing UCI's hand and then 2 years for lying about it and gving blame to someone else. So, 8 years. After that she is to be cleared by an independently appointed sports psychologist, to make sure she CAN in fact think for herself and is not unde r the influence of anyone when it comes to her sport.

 

[GJB123]

@ sniper, true that is easier but convenience shouldn't be the overriding factor when handing out punishment, fines, suspensions and the like. You can't punish people who were effectively not involved just for mere association, at least I would consider that an injustice.

 

[Spawn of e]

Re:

Do the Belgian police have the authority to investigate as would be the case with regular doping?

Maybe they should address the minor problem of their country being a hotbed of terrorist cells before they tackle the scourge that is mechanical doping.

 

[Maxiton]

Re:

Lemond built a 'moto' bike last year and rode it to top of D'Huez

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/motors-in-bikes-greg-lemonds-six-ways-to-eradicate-mechanical-doping/

Sadly Lemond thinks WADA is part of a solution!

“I believe it has been used in top level races,” [Lemond] said. “. . . I have tried to talk to the UCI about [it] for them to take it seriously. I think they should, but they are not."

I know this could never happen because UCI is part of the problem; but it would be so awesome if they were part of the solution and did this: buy the silent, ceramic-geared, high-end version of this bike (with the batteries in the downtube) for Lemond, and then, for demonstration purposes and without telling anyone about the nature of the bike, allow Lemond to enter the Tour de France with it. Haha! It would be fantastic to see Lemond, at his age and weight, motoring everyone off his wheel. Assuming, of course, that no one else has a motor.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Lemond built a 'moto' bike last year and rode it to top of D'Huez

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/motors-in-bikes-greg-lemonds-six-ways-to-eradicate-mechanical-doping/

Sadly Lemond thinks WADA is part of a solution!

“I believe it has been used in top level races,” [Lemond] said. “. . . I have tried to talk to the UCI about [it] for them to take it seriously. I think they should, but they are not."

I know this could never happen because UCI is part of the problem; but it would be so awesome if they were part of the solution and did this: buy the silent, ceramic-geared, high-end version of this bike (with the batteries in the downtube) for Lemond, and then, for demonstration purposes and without telling anyone about the nature of the bike, allow Lemond to enter the Tour de France with it. Haha! It would be fantastic to see Lemond, at his age and weight, motoring everyone off his wheel. Assuming, of course, that no one else has a motor.

Tell you the truth I would like to see a major Media company hire a machine and go around checking all the bikes in July on the QT. Then make a program about it to be broadcast at WC.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Lemond built a 'moto' bike last year and rode it to top of D'Huez

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/motors-in-bikes-greg-lemonds-six-ways-to-eradicate-mechanical-doping/

Sadly Lemond thinks WADA is part of a solution!

“I believe it has been used in top level races,” [Lemond] said. “. . . I have tried to talk to the UCI about [it] for them to take it seriously. I think they should, but they are not."

I know this could never happen because UCI is part of the problem; but it would be so awesome if they were part of the solution and did this: buy the silent, ceramic-geared, high-end version of this bike (with the batteries in the downtube) for Lemond, and then, for demonstration purposes and without telling anyone about the nature of the bike, allow Lemond to enter the Tour de France with it. Haha! It would be fantastic to see Lemond, at his age and weight, motoring everyone off his wheel. Assuming, of course, that no one else has a motor.

Tell you the truth I would like to see a major Media company hire a machine and go around checking all the bikes in July on the QT. Then make a program about it to be broadcast at WC.

Even better. How about Immediate Media Co.? Content. Passion. Engagement.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

@ooo
Your story is not completely correct.

Lets talk about three bikes, the ones I have seen at races this season.
1 The one with large tubing, external cable routing different paint job and a white sadle (I suspect its motorized because of results and pushing button)
2 Black bike internal cable with black sadle (I suspect motorized because of results and pushing button)
3 Black bike internal cablewith black sadle
Bike 2 and 3 are very simular and I need good pictures or video to tell the difference. The different print on the saddle is the best give away.

In Zolder she is racing with bike nr 1 and then off track she jumps on bike nr 3.

Bike nr 1 has a broken chain as you can see when she is walking on the finish straight. It can also be seen in this picture:
http://pedaleandoporcanarias.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Bicicleta-con-motor-de-Femke-Van-den-Driessche.jpg

This suggests bike 2 is the one the UCI took, which is the one from Koppenbergcross. That would explain the in-race situation at least, because if bike 2 had been taken and bike 1 is broken, she probably doesn't have another in the pits, so she needs somebody to go fetch bike 3 from the truck, hence why it's on the outside of the course when she climbs over the barrier to DNF.

We've had conflicting reports on whether the UCI did or didn't check the bike she was riding in the race, which if they didn't surely is an absolutely ridiculous oversight on their part for many reasons, not least because they publicly stated that she wasn't riding the motorized bike in the race. Yet from Tienus' posts it seems we have reason to suspect bikes 1 and 2 have both been, at some point, motorized. Bike 1 is the one that made Sabrina Stultiens comment, because it's noticeably different to bikes 2 and 3 which are very similar. If they test bike 1 and it's motorized, then the already pretty complicated series of events that need to take place for their excuse to work goes out of the window. That they publicly stated that Femke didn't ride the illegal bike in the race suggests either they didn't test bike 1, or they did and found it clean; in which case, it would suggest Femke has one motor and shifts it from bike to bike accordingly to try to keep people off the scent, presumably wishing to switch to it mid-race, which was not an option once it was confiscated. Certainly she was performing under-par in the race. If they tested it and found it motorized, then they're hiding it to try to protect the integrity of the race (even though Femke was a non-factor) or to try to at least slightly cushion a pretty brutal fall for her.

 

[Cloxxki]

Even Clinic Crew TV could do the checks. Kindly ask teams if they were allowed access to all bikes. Those who refused, all get their bikes covered in difficult to remove tar or something. Cleaning agent offered in return for access. But of course UCI would have no choice but to investigate the smudged bikes, all of them.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

@ooo
Your story is not completely correct.

Lets talk about three bikes, the ones I have seen at races this season.
1 The one with large tubing, external cable routing different paint job and a white sadle (I suspect its motorized because of results and pushing button)
2 Black bike internal cable with black sadle (I suspect motorized because of results and pushing button)
3 Black bike internal cablewith black sadle
Bike 2 and 3 are very simular and I need good pictures or video to tell the difference. The different print on the saddle is the best give away.

In Zolder she is racing with bike nr 1 and then off track she jumps on bike nr 3.

Bike nr 1 has a broken chain as you can see when she is walking on the finish straight. It can also be seen in this picture:
http://pedaleandoporcanarias.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Bicicleta-con-motor-de-Femke-Van-den-Driessche.jpg

This suggests bike 2 is the one the UCI took, which is the one from Koppenbergcross. That would explain the in-race situation at least, because if bike 2 had been taken and bike 1 is broken, she probably doesn't have another in the pits, so she needs somebody to go fetch bike 3 from the truck, hence why it's on the outside of the course when she climbs over the barrier to DNF.

We've had conflicting reports on whether the UCI did or didn't check the bike she was riding in the race, which if they didn't surely is an absolutely ridiculous oversight on their part for many reasons, not least because they publicly stated that she wasn't riding the motorized bike in the race. Yet from Tienus' posts it seems we have reason to suspect bikes 1 and 2 have both been, at some point, motorized. Bike 1 is the one that made Sabrina Stultiens comment, because it's noticeably different to bikes 2 and 3 which are very similar. If they test bike 1 and it's motorized, then the already pretty complicated series of events that need to take place for their excuse to work goes out of the window. That they publicly stated that Femke didn't ride the illegal bike in the race suggests either they didn't test bike 1, or they did and found it clean; in which case, it would suggest Femke has one motor and shifts it from bike to bike accordingly to try to keep people off the scent, presumably wishing to switch to it mid-race, which was not an option once it was confiscated. Certainly she was performing under-par in the race. If they tested it and found it motorized, then they're hiding it to try to protect the integrity of the race (even though Femke was a non-factor) or to try to at least slightly cushion a pretty brutal fall for her.

I don't think it was a pretty brutal fall for her they were trying to cushion, but a brutal fall for them. Because if it were seen that riders were using motors in the race, it would make them look pretty inept or worse, corrupt, and the integrity of racing already breached.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

she is to be cleared by an independently appointed sports psychologist, to make sure she CAN in fact think for herself and is not unde r the influence of anyone when it comes to her sport.

Because, as a young woman, that she can think for her self and be held to be responsible for her own actions must be a matter of doubt? I certainly can't recall such a suggestion being made in the past with regards anyone else being caught blatantly cheating.

Perhaps you didn't intend to appear so sexist and feel that this new process should be applied to all riders under, say, 23, both male and female? Maybe it should be added to the WADA rule book, along with a new clause saying that, henceforth, all those caught cheating must only be referred to by their forename, as this is much friendlier!

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

she is to be cleared by an independently appointed sports psychologist, to make sure she CAN in fact think for herself and is not unde r the influence of anyone when it comes to her sport.

Because, as a young woman, that she can think for her self and be held to be responsible for her own actions must be a matter of doubt? I certainly can't recall such a suggestion being made in the past with regards anyone else being caught blatantly cheating.

Perhaps you didn't intend to appear so sexist and feel that this new process should be applied to all riders under, say, 23, both male and female? Maybe it should be added to the WADA rule book, along with a new clause saying that, henceforth, all those caught cheating must only be referred to by their forename, as this is much friendlier!

Actually, that's a great idea. All U23 riders caught for cheating should be cleared by an independently appointed sports psychologist, by definition, since U23 riders are under the tutelage and direction and influence older people, usually much older. This would help to ferret out corruption, and protect the well being and careers of people starting out.

 

[Cloxxki]

Re: Re:

she is to be cleared by an independently appointed sports psychologist, to make sure she CAN in fact think for herself and is not unde r the influence of anyone when it comes to her sport.

Because, as a young woman, that she can think for her self and be held to be responsible for her own actions must be a matter of doubt? I certainly can't recall such a suggestion being made in the past with regards anyone else being caught blatantly cheating.

Perhaps you didn't intend to appear so sexist and feel that this new process should be applied to all riders under, say, 23, both male and female? Maybe it should be added to the WADA rule book, along with a new clause saying that, henceforth, all those caught cheating must only be referred to by their forename, as this is much friendlier!

I think you could have chosen to read that differently. And you'll have overlooked that I suggested an 8-year ban for that pour little weak female puppy.

 

[HappyCycling]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Really sorry if this has been posted before but...what the hell? Surely this is the most obvious road incident since Ryder at the Vuelta? The first spin is odd as its going so fast, but when it stops and then starts again when he mounts again.. what is going on there?

http://www.thebikecomesfirst.com/motorised-doping-speculation-following-ion-izagirres-crash-video/

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yea, it's been brought up before. And as I said before, this is a February short stage race, people won't notice if he underperforms, cos it's not a part of the season to have form for. If he IS using a motorized bike to race the Volta a la Comunidad Valenciana this week, he's even more naïve than Femke van den Driessche.