Motor doping thread

[nogav1ca]

Thanks!

 

[CTQ]

Quintana also seems to have his bidon when he crossed the finish line.

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

If Quintana was using a motor then he deserves an Oscar.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11w33b_tour-de-france-2013-quintana-epuise-a-l-arrivee-au-mont-ventoux_sport?from_related_right#.UeM6Fo2USo0

 

[CTQ]

Froome, Quintana on the finish line with bidons.... Saturday Chavez won with a bidon on the finish line, Majka crossed the finish line with a bidon. So what? take risks in the last kilometers by not water

 

[jmdirt]

If you have the awareness, time, and energy to get rid of your bottle then you are using something.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re:

If you have the awareness, time, and energy to get rid of your bottle then you are using something.

Yes, your brain. Or, failing that, an earpiece

 

[budegan]

Re:

If you have the awareness, time, and energy to get rid of your bottle then you are using something.

Please break this down for me. All those ground-breaking marginal gains, the gruelling diet, the investment in technological innovations: everything focused day and night to save grams, ounces, to make the most minuscule difference to those all important numbers .... but he can't be bothered to toss his bottle away.

Tell me what am I missing, because it makes no sense and all things considered seems fishy as f***.

 

[PeterB]

Re: Re:

If you have the awareness, time, and energy to get rid of your bottle then you are using something.

Please break this down for me. All those ground-breaking marginal gains, the gruelling diet, the investment in technological innovations: everything focused day and night to save grams, ounces, to make the most minuscule difference to those all important numbers .... but he can't be bothered to toss his bottle away.

Tell me what am I missing, because it makes no sense and all things considered seems fishy as f***.

He "wasn't bothered" (aka forgot) to take out nose pads in 2012 TdF prologue. Could very well be just that stuff happens, despite all of the above efforts. So you are probably missing that life is not that simple.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

If you have the awareness, time, and energy to get rid of your bottle then you are using something.

Please break this down for me. All those ground-breaking marginal gains, the gruelling diet, the investment in technological innovations: everything focused day and night to save grams, ounces, to make the most minuscule difference to those all important numbers .... but he can't be bothered to toss his bottle away.

Tell me what am I missing, because it makes no sense and all things considered seems fishy as f***.

He "wasn't bothered" (aka forgot) to take out nose pads in 2012 TdF prologue. Could very well be just that stuff happens, despite all of the above efforts. So you are probably missing that life is not that simple.

Stuff happens and he stills wins TdFs......sure

 

[StryderHells]

I think it was just a Bidon, considering the money behind Sky they would of been running the motors battery inside the frame and not running with a battery in the Bidon.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

If you have the awareness, time, and energy to get rid of your bottle then you are using something.

Please break this down for me. All those ground-breaking marginal gains, the gruelling diet, the investment in technological innovations: everything focused day and night to save grams, ounces, to make the most minuscule difference to those all important numbers .... but he can't be bothered to toss his bottle away.

Tell me what am I missing, because it makes no sense and all things considered seems fishy as f***.

He "wasn't bothered" (aka forgot) to take out nose pads in 2012 TdF prologue. Could very well be just that stuff happens, despite all of the above efforts. So you are probably missing that life is not that simple.

Sometimes people forget.

Or could be he could not toss that particular bottle due to something else.
That stage was interesting already. Now the bottle.

 

[thehog]

Re:

I think it was just a Bidon, considering the money behind Sky they would of been running the motors battery inside the frame and not running with a battery in the Bidon.

I think the issue is more that Froome didn't actually take a drink from the bidon, less about it remaining. The fact that it's still there raises even more eyebrows.

 

[budegan]

Re: Re:

If you have the awareness, time, and energy to get rid of your bottle then you are using something.

Please break this down for me. All those ground-breaking marginal gains, the gruelling diet, the investment in technological innovations: everything focused day and night to save grams, ounces, to make the most minuscule difference to those all important numbers .... but he can't be bothered to toss his bottle away.

Tell me what am I missing, because it makes no sense and all things considered seems fishy as f***.

He "wasn't bothered" (aka forgot) to take out nose pads in 2012 TdF prologue. Could very well be just that stuff happens, despite all of the above efforts. So you are probably missing that life is not that simple.

But you see my point though right Peter? A whopping mistake like that really is amateurish stuff which all the pillows and moodlighting in the world can't compensate. So if it is a genuine mistake then it undermines all Brailsford's bluster about the secret of their success being down to a meticulous eye for the smallest detail and a remarkable diligence. But of course the Skybots want it both ways.

 

[CTQ]

I don't know how people can say he didn't take a drink from the bidon when we can't see him all the time. No bidon on the finish line of Pierre St-Martin, so we have to eliminate the hidden motor for his win

 

[PeterB]

Re: Re:

If you have the awareness, time, and energy to get rid of your bottle then you are using something.

Please break this down for me. All those ground-breaking marginal gains, the gruelling diet, the investment in technological innovations: everything focused day and night to save grams, ounces, to make the most minuscule difference to those all important numbers .... but he can't be bothered to toss his bottle away.

Tell me what am I missing, because it makes no sense and all things considered seems fishy as f***.

He "wasn't bothered" (aka forgot) to take out nose pads in 2012 TdF prologue. Could very well be just that stuff happens, despite all of the above efforts. So you are probably missing that life is not that simple.

But you see my point though right Peter? A whopping mistake like that really is amateurish stuff which all the pillows and moodlighting in the world can't compensate. So if it is a genuine mistake then it undermines all Brailsford's bluster about the secret of their success being down to a meticulous eye for the smallest detail and a remarkable diligence. But of course the Skybots want it both ways.

But sure, maybe he had a battery in the bidon. Or maybe it contained liqiud with some special substances he did not want to be analysed should a roadside fan run with it to the nearest chemical lab. But please let's not pretend there is no other conceivable explanation such as forgetting about it, preferring to have water with you until the very end, or simply Froome being careless idiot.

 

[thehog]

Re:

I don't know how people can say he didn't take a drink from the bidon when we can't see him all the time. No bidon on the finish line of Pierre St-Martin, so we have to eliminate the hidden motor for his win

That was two years later, technology had moved on with battery inside the tube.

 

[kwikki]

I've now got an almost total ICBA arsed attitude towards pro cycling because of the very obvious lack of difference between riding now and riding 10 years ago. Plus the antics such as Ryder's self-propelled bike and Vroome's Ventoux.

Might watch Le Tour for the scenery.

 

[Farcanal]

Re: Re:

I don't know how people can say he didn't take a drink from the bidon when we can't see him all the time. No bidon on the finish line of Pierre St-Martin, so we have to eliminate the hidden motor for his win

That was two years later, technology had moved on with battery inside the tube.

Always an answer! What will it be when bike frames and wheel rims are 3D printed in perspex or polycarb?

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I don't know how people can say he didn't take a drink from the bidon when we can't see him all the time. No bidon on the finish line of Pierre St-Martin, so we have to eliminate the hidden motor for his win

That was two years later, technology had moved on with battery inside the tube.

Always an answer! What will it be when bike frames and wheel rims are 3D printed in perspex or polycarb?

You have a better explanation for Froome's absurd attacks on Ventoux that day?

 

[Farcanal]

Re: Re:

I don't know how people can say he didn't take a drink from the bidon when we can't see him all the time. No bidon on the finish line of Pierre St-Martin, so we have to eliminate the hidden motor for his win

That was two years later, technology had moved on with battery inside the tube.

Always an answer! What will it be when bike frames and wheel rims are 3D printed in perspex or polycarb?

You have a better explanation for Froome's absurd attacks on Ventoux that day?

I've heard many explanations and this is the weakest of all of them without a shadow of a doubt. However which is better or best is totally subjective as the whole subject matter is purely conjecture.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I don't know how people can say he didn't take a drink from the bidon when we can't see him all the time. No bidon on the finish line of Pierre St-Martin, so we have to eliminate the hidden motor for his win

That was two years later, technology had moved on with battery inside the tube.

Always an answer! What will it be when bike frames and wheel rims are 3D printed in perspex or polycarb?

You have a better explanation for Froome's absurd attacks on Ventoux that day?

I've heard many explanations and this is the weakest of all of them without a shadow of a doubt. However which is better or best is totally subjective as the whole subject matter is purely conjecture.

I don't disagree is only one part of the story but when you look at the totality of information we have that day on Ventoux; the 'battery bidon' is not that far out of the realm of possibility. The leaked data superimposed across the video footage, Froome bizarre seated accelerations and low to non-moving heart rate add up to some fairly conclusive evidence.

 

[sniper]

He could easily have ramped a motor up his saddle or bidon and off you go. No need to be particularly subtle if you know you're not gonna be tested.

It's easily one of the most unreal jumps i've ever seen in terms of gear choice + accelleration + body positioning.
Then you here Kerrison saying "we practiced this alot during training". No doubt they did.
And despite all the practice hours, Froome is having plenty of trouble processing the boost he gets right there in the curve. It takes him by surprise.

Up there with Cancellara jetting away from boonen on the muur.

 

[thehog]

Re:

He could easily have ramped a motor up his saddle or bidon and off you go. No need to be particularly subtle if you know you're not gonna be tested.

It's easily one of the most unreal jumps i've ever seen in terms of gear choice + accelleration + body positioning. Then you here Kerrison saying "we practiced this alot during training". No doubt they did.
And despite all the practice hours, Froome is having plenty of trouble processing the boost he gets right there in the curve. It takes him by surprise.

Up there with Cancellara jetting away from boonen on the muur.

Agreed, it was utterly insane. The French commentary version was best, suspended disbelief of what was unfolding on the screen. I don't know how much they tested the motor in training but Froome didn't do a very good job at hiding it, it was extremely overt and like you say in parts he was losing control of the bike coming around the switchbacks.

For me its the hand movements across the handlebars when he makes the accelerations.

Inevitably the move raised eyebrows, given that seated accelerations at the high cadence Froome briefly produced are rarely seen on mountain climbs. But the Australian physiologist Tim Kerrison, who has revolutionised the way his charges at Team Sky build up to races such as the Tour, explained that such intense efforts when the body is already close to its limit are a key part of his proteges' training. In that sense, this was a relatively routine piece of riding for Froome.

"Pete Kennaugh was laughing at the end of the stage," said Kerrison. "He said the way Chris rode that climb was exactly what we do in training every second day. Our training is much more than just doing intervals at a constant pace for a set amount of time; [some of it] is about being able to handle changes of pace – to go from, say, 350 watts to 650 watts for a few seconds to attack and get a gap on a rider who is trying to follow, then come back down to 350 watts."

Most often when climbers make their attacks on a mountain, they do it standing on the pedals to gain the maximum amount of leverage from the arms and upper body. Froome remained seated while making his attack on Contador, however. There is a clear advantage in doing this, Kerrison believes: working in a wind tunnel has shown Sky that there is much less drag when a cyclist remains sitting down. That applies even at relatively low climbing speeds.

"There is a significant increase [in drag] when you attack out of the saddle compared to staying seated and keeping your body narrow. If you can [attack] as well in the saddle [as standing] you will get more speed for the same power because there is less drag. It's while you are accelerating that drag is more important, so if you accelerate in a streamlined position, you get up to your speed more efficiently."

Funny how we've barely see Froome ever attack in the saddle since!

 

[el_angliru]

I was watching the Ventoux stage on Danish TV that year. Niki Østergard was commentating from the studio, and he said Froome's performance was highly suspicious. Niki was a junior world silver medalist in 2006 behind Ulissi, who won two stages in this year's Giro. Michael Rasmussen was also very sceptical about Froome's perfomance on Ventoux, but Michael Rasmussen later withdrew his comments. Niki's comments are still out there (at least I have them on a DVR recording) but MR's initial comments seems to be lost.

 

[jmdirt]

A while back I posted that a local guy ordered a Vivx. I have third hand info. that its less impressive than advertised and 'only' puts about 100 w to the rear wheel. 100 w could obviously make a huge difference in a race though.