Motor doping thread

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

As I've said earlier, anybody still in doubt about Cance using a motor in 2010 should watch the Durand analysis.
It's doing the rounds again on twitter:
https://twitter.com/letouzet/status/742692398732566528

I wish I could understand more languages. But this video he breaks down the info pretty good even if I can't understand all of it.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Why should we believe a fake account like @letouzet?

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

As I've said earlier, anybody still in doubt about Cance using a motor in 2010 should watch the Durand analysis.
It's doing the rounds again on twitter:
https://twitter.com/letouzet/status/742692398732566528

I wish I could understand more languages. But this video he breaks down the info pretty good even if I can't understand all of it.

He's mainly arguing that the bike switches were (a) dodgy as *** (no apparent technical problems), (b) clearly premeditated and (c) ideal for changing the battery.

@checkmypecks: the Durand analysis is from 2010. That twitter account has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Tienus]

Now that we know that there was no bike checking at LBL.
One thing I noticed during the spring classics was the similarity in uphill sprinting style of Poels and Froom. High RPM head down looking at stem/computer area. Even commentators have mistaken Poels for Froome. Unfortunately I cant find back a video of cote Saint Nicolas where the final breakaway happened.
I also think it is suspiscious that Poels took the time to get rid of his gloves with about 5k to go. I cant think of a good reason apart from having to push a button.
And why would you start the sprint so early on your first opportunity to win a monument with two fast guys in your wheel?

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

WTF is going on here? I don't think it's the crank. Adrien Costa sees his wheel start turning and quickly picks up the bike.

https://youtu.be/tZerARsCqAE

That clip got discussed after the race.
My thoughts:
-The wheel doesn't move like it has a motor
-The crank moves, it doesn't take much to initiate wheel movement
---try it with your own bike with the crank in the same position as his
-His reaction isn't that strange. 'I just laid my bike down in the road, I should pick it up.'
-I don't know this kid so I'm not defending him per se, the situation just doesn't seem like strong evidence for moto fraud. That said, there could be a motor in there somewhere.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Now that we know that there was no bike checking at LBL.
One thing I noticed during the spring classics was the similarity in uphill sprinting style of Poels and Froom. High RPM head down looking at stem/computer area. Even commentators have mistaken Poels for Froome. Unfortunately I cant find back a video of cote Saint Nicolas where the final breakaway happened.
I also think it is suspiscious that Poels took the time to get rid of his gloves with about 5k to go. I cant think of a good reason apart from having to push a button.
And why would you start the sprint so early on your first opportunity to win a monument with two fast guys in your wheel?

good points.

At one kilometer from the finish, Poels took off his handshoes to prepare himself for the final
http://www.1limburg.nl/poels-over-zege-mijn-telefoon-ontplofte

Wout threw off his valuable handshoes in order to better handle his gears
http://www.woutpoels.nl/uploads/docs/2016/201604.pdf

 

[thehog]

Re:

Now that we know that there was no bike checking at LBL.
One thing I noticed during the spring classics was the similarity in uphill sprinting style of Poels and Froom. High RPM head down looking at stem/computer area. Even commentators have mistaken Poels for Froome. Unfortunately I cant find back a video of cote Saint Nicolas where the final breakaway happened.
I also think it is suspiscious that Poels took the time to get rid of his gloves with about 5k to go. I cant think of a good reason apart from having to push a button.
And why would you start the sprint so early on your first opportunity to win a monument with two fast guys in your wheel?

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/streamable/?title=Finish+Part+2:+Last+4+Km&dashboard=liege-bastogne-liege&id=jcg5&yr=2016

Gloves come off at 1.8km to go.

 

[sniper]

http://www.limburger.nl/cnt/dmf20160426_00018608/wout-poels-ik-was-daar-toch-wel-even-de-man
And then those handshoes, which he just threw off one and a half km before the finish. "I thought: if I'm gonna ride for victory, every detail has to be ok. The gear buttons are vert small and I didn't want to accidentally push the wrong button. Sure, the handshoes are expensive, but I'm sure the team will forgive me.

accidentally push the wrong button, lol.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/streamable/?title=Finish+Part+2:+Last+4+Km&dashboard=liege-bastogne-liege&id=jcg5&yr=2016

Gloves come off at 1.8km to go.

you have to look closely to identify poels in the first segment of the climb, but if you see him, he's constantly looking up, looking down at his stem, looking up, looking down at his stem again.
interesting.

 

[Tienus]

@thehog
I initially watched the race live with other commentators. But the eurosport commentators are also confused with 2k to go they discuss Poels riding like Froome and mention he is looking at his stem. Must be marginal aerodynamic gains.

 

[thehog]

Re:

@thehog
I initially watched the race live with other commentators. But the eurosport commentators are also confused with 2k to go they discuss Poels riding like Froome and mention he is looking at his stem. Must be marginal aerodynamic gains.

PC8 and any other headunits will give you auditable beeps at threshold so you don’t blow yourself up. Froome and Poels on this occasion are prolific stem watchers. I get that aspect. I do it a lot as well, I get nervous I’m going too slow or too fast, I don’t trust myself sometimes and keep watching the power. In saying that in a race situation its impossible to do as you are following wheels and the pace is often predetermined by another rider, you don’t slow down because your powermeter says to. You follow the speed of the lead rider.

Looking down to see if the motor has engaged or that you’re not completely over doing the power is legitimate concern. If its crank driven then you’d be looking at your legs to keep balance. Now in saying all that its clear Froome was using a motor on Ventoux 2013. He was getting directions in his ear piece to slow it down, that day he wasn’t doing as much stem watching as I’ve seen him do before.

However, not convinced on the Poels LBL but the fact that there was no bike checks and Sky really needed a monument win is a little suspect. These days nothing surprises me.

 

[sniper]

Indeed, the commentators are baffled.
"Whos that Sky rider? It's not Froome is it? I would have sworn Froome was dropped long ago. The way he's looking at his stem, it's just like Froome".

rather dodgy all together.

 

[sniper]

Poels clicking/gearswitching at ca. 3/4th of the clip, when he rides in fourth and decides to jump out of Samuel Sanchez's wheel.
Anybody able to tell if that's really gearswithching?

 

[thehog]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Foremost expert on mechanical doping Kathy LeMond speaks:

“There are loopholes and these cheaters will look for any loopholes. Everything needs to be done to ensure that there are no loopholes. We have to do everything possible,” LeMond told Cyclingnews. “I don’t believe that they are doing everything that they can, and I think that it is the greatest threat to cycling."

“All I’m saying is if they don’t stop it then it will be just like doping… To me, they need to take it seriously and come down so hard so that it’s not an option, that is what has to be done."

LeMond confirmed Cyclingnews that she and her husband have spoken to the UCI on numerous occasions about their concerns, but while the UCI listened, they have not taken sufficient action.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kathy-lemond-uci-needs-to-do-more-to-fight-mechanical-doping/?utm_content=bufferd06bc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[veganrob]

The UCI wants to take credit for catching Femke with their tablet. I didn't think that was the case, was it? Wasn't it a tip-off?

 

[deeno1975]

Re:

Now that we know that there was no bike checking at LBL.
One thing I noticed during the spring classics was the similarity in uphill sprinting style of Poels and Froom. High RPM head down looking at stem/computer area. Even commentators have mistaken Poels for Froome. Unfortunately I cant find back a video of cote Saint Nicolas where the final breakaway happened.
I also think it is suspiscious that Poels took the time to get rid of his gloves with about 5k to go. I cant think of a good reason apart from having to push a button.
And why would you start the sprint so early on your first opportunity to win a monument with two fast guys in your wheel?

And I though I had entered a mad house but looked at the video again and wow... you are right, he was doing things that the other riders were not doing, gloves off, stem gazing, high RPM sprint... Is that his normal style or does this stink???

And anyway what rider would risk taking his gloves off with 2KM to go when race is on?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

I'm just waiting for the first team to announce their own internal moto-testing program

Do any of the more elite riders have their own personal mechanics? You know, kind of like how some had their own "doctors" and "trainers" that weren't officially on the team's payroll?

we need TexPat to come back. but i dont think his role ever extended to being a usps wrench, and def not motoman type courier

 

[Tienus]

Re:

The UCI wants to take credit for catching Femke with their tablet. I didn't think that was the case, was it? Wasn't it a tip-off?

It seems like everyone in cyclocross including the UCI knew about this. There where rumours since November and in the week before the WC race riders where showing pictures to each other of the strange bike from Femke. The picture was also send to the UCI. This was the one and only bike she used during the WC race.

I posted a short documentary with evidence but it has been removed.
viewtopic.php?p=1863810#p1863810

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Now that we know that there was no bike checking at LBL.
One thing I noticed during the spring classics was the similarity in uphill sprinting style of Poels and Froom. High RPM head down looking at stem/computer area. Even commentators have mistaken Poels for Froome. Unfortunately I cant find back a video of cote Saint Nicolas where the final breakaway happened.
I also think it is suspiscious that Poels took the time to get rid of his gloves with about 5k to go. I cant think of a good reason apart from having to push a button.
And why would you start the sprint so early on your first opportunity to win a monument with two fast guys in your wheel?

And I though I had entered a mad house but looked at the video again and wow... you are right, he was doing things that the other riders were not doing, gloves off, stem gazing, high RPM sprint... Is that his normal style or does this stink???

And anyway what rider would risk taking his gloves off with 2KM to go when race is on?

he said it was for better gear shifting. (see previous page)

 

[deeno1975]

Re: Re:

Now that we know that there was no bike checking at LBL.
One thing I noticed during the spring classics was the similarity in uphill sprinting style of Poels and Froom. High RPM head down looking at stem/computer area. Even commentators have mistaken Poels for Froome. Unfortunately I cant find back a video of cote Saint Nicolas where the final breakaway happened.
I also think it is suspiscious that Poels took the time to get rid of his gloves with about 5k to go. I cant think of a good reason apart from having to push a button.
And why would you start the sprint so early on your first opportunity to win a monument with two fast guys in your wheel?

And I though I had entered a mad house but looked at the video again and wow... you are right, he was doing things that the other riders were not doing, gloves off, stem gazing, high RPM sprint... Is that his normal style or does this stink???

And anyway what rider would risk taking his gloves off with 2KM to go when race is on?

he said it was for better gear shifting. (see previous page)

Marginal gain, if only the others could have thought of that!!!

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Now that we know that there was no bike checking at LBL.
One thing I noticed during the spring classics was the similarity in uphill sprinting style of Poels and Froom. High RPM head down looking at stem/computer area. Even commentators have mistaken Poels for Froome. Unfortunately I cant find back a video of cote Saint Nicolas where the final breakaway happened.
I also think it is suspiscious that Poels took the time to get rid of his gloves with about 5k to go. I cant think of a good reason apart from having to push a button.
And why would you start the sprint so early on your first opportunity to win a monument with two fast guys in your wheel?

And I though I had entered a mad house but looked at the video again and wow... you are right, he was doing things that the other riders were not doing, gloves off, stem gazing, high RPM sprint... Is that his normal style or does this stink???

And anyway what rider would risk taking his gloves off with 2KM to go when race is on?

he said it was for better gear shifting. (see previous page)

Marginal gain, if only the others could have thought of that!!!

u see him clicking at ca. 3/4th of the clip thehog posted.
look at it and tell me what u think.
i lack the expertise to say if thats regular gearshifting or not, but it,s right before he jumps out of SamuSanchez,s wheel.

 

[deeno1975]

Re: Re:

Now that we know that there was no bike checking at LBL.
One thing I noticed during the spring classics was the similarity in uphill sprinting style of Poels and Froom. High RPM head down looking at stem/computer area. Even commentators have mistaken Poels for Froome. Unfortunately I cant find back a video of cote Saint Nicolas where the final breakaway happened.
I also think it is suspiscious that Poels took the time to get rid of his gloves with about 5k to go. I cant think of a good reason apart from having to push a button.
And why would you start the sprint so early on your first opportunity to win a monument with two fast guys in your wheel?

And I though I had entered a mad house but looked at the video again and wow... you are right, he was doing things that the other riders were not doing, gloves off, stem gazing, high RPM sprint... Is that his normal style or does this stink???

And anyway what rider would risk taking his gloves off with 2KM to go when race is on?

he said it was for better gear shifting. (see previous page)

Marginal gain, if only the others could have thought of that!!!

u see him clicking at ca. 3/4th of the clip thehog posted.
look at it and tell me what u think.
i lack the expertise to say if thats regular gearshifting or not, but it,s right before he jumps out of SamuSanchez,s wheel.

Inconclusive for me as what he did then, probably a gear change before he jumped out of the saddle. For me sometimes he appears to be looking at his gearing (or something in that area) rather than looking at his stem. But it is pure conjecture and not conclusive although suspicious in the amount of times he does it. Does he normally ride like this?

 

[Tienus]

@sniper
For me the camera angle makes it too difficult to see whats happening. It looks like his index finger moves outward which could be a result of his right thumb pressing a button.
The week before when he is crossing the line in de Waalse pijl you can see four fingers extend and move away from the brake lever.
At 1:46:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUQpX-F8i80
This looks similar to what I have seen from Femke and Fabian and I think it is most probably button pressing.
I also looks like Froome is doing the same here at 2:28
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20130714_041

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Foremost expert on mechanical doping Kathy LeMond speaks:

“There are loopholes and these cheaters will look for any loopholes. Everything needs to be done to ensure that there are no loopholes. We have to do everything possible,” LeMond told Cyclingnews. “I don’t believe that they are doing everything that they can, and I think that it is the greatest threat to cycling."

“All I’m saying is if they don’t stop it then it will be just like doping… To me, they need to take it seriously and come down so hard so that it’s not an option, that is what has to be done."

LeMond confirmed Cyclingnews that she and her husband have spoken to the UCI on numerous occasions about their concerns, but while the UCI listened, they have not taken sufficient action.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kathy-lemond-uci-needs-to-do-more-to-fight-mechanical-doping/?utm_content=bufferd06bc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I read that Title on the home page and thought to myself: "why the F do I care what she has to say?!"

 

[sniper]

Re:

@sniper
For me the camera angle makes it too difficult to see whats happening. It looks like his index finger moves outward which could be a result of his right thumb pressing a button.
The week before when he is crossing the line in de Waalse pijl you can see four fingers extend and move away from the brake lever.
At 1:46:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUQpX-F8i80
This looks similar to what I have seen from Femke and Fabian and I think it is most probably button pressing.
I also looks like Froome is doing the same here at 2:28
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20130714_041

two brilliant spots.
It's like they're switching off their engines. literally.
Can anybody give a non-motor explanation for that clicking right on the finish line?